Students need to look beyond W&M, UVA, and VT for in-state. Virginia has excellent programs beyond those 3. A higher admit rate doesn’t mean that a school isn’t good or that it won’t prepare students well for life after graduation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

Neither does WilliM and Mary.

And GMU tied with ODU makes sense.

That is a graduate program ranking and W&M does not have a PhD program in chemistry, but that doesn't mean it isn't very good for undergraduate chemistry. Only 10 universities in the country had more graduates go on to get chemistry PhDs from 2016-2022 (Berkeley, UCSD, Michigan, UT Austin, Pitt, Wisconsin, UNC, Cornell, Penn State, and Illinois) and all of those schools have much larger enrollments. In the College Scorecard, W&M Chemistry B.S. graduates have higher median earnings than any other Virginia public school.

https://www.highereddatastories.com/2023/10/undergraduate-institutions-of-doctoral.html

+1 W&M's chemistry program is top-notch. I'm so tired of people misinterpreting data and then making assertions about things they know nothing about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

Neither does WilliM and Mary.

And GMU tied with ODU makes sense.

That is a graduate program ranking and W&M does not have a PhD program in chemistry, but that doesn't mean it isn't very good for undergraduate chemistry. Only 10 universities in the country had more graduates go on to get chemistry PhDs from 2016-2022 (Berkeley, UCSD, Michigan, UT Austin, Pitt, Wisconsin, UNC, Cornell, Penn State, and Illinois) and all of those schools have much larger enrollments. In the College Scorecard, W&M Chemistry B.S. graduates have higher median earnings than any other Virginia public school.

https://www.highereddatastories.com/2023/10/undergraduate-institutions-of-doctoral.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

Nice made up post

+1
The usual JMU-hating troll is back. I actually laughed when I read that post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're from Fairfax and my kid chose UMD over VA Tech. He's having the time of his life there. More options for things to do and very easy access to DC and Baltimore.

But he lives in College Park lol

Um, been to Blacksburg?

DP and yes. It's beautiful and surrounded by mountains with lots of outdoor activities available.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is nuts. Virginia has a lot of good public colleges for only 8.6M residents. Way more options on a per capita basis than vast majority of states of a similar size.

Pennsylvania has 12.9M residents.

How many decent public colleges/universities for a state of that size? Penn State and Pitt. That's it. Neither of which hold a candle to UVA, W&M, and VT. Pitt is a slightly better version of JMU. Penn State doesn't have an analogue in VA, it's more similar to UMD-CP.

So yeah, VA has an amazing public university system given the moderate size of the state. Sure, the UC system is the best in country but those schools are ENORMOUS. And "best" is really just a measurement of research dollars. If your kid wants a classic liberal arts education prior to going to law school, they are better off at UVA than UCLA or Berkeley.

Pitt and PSU are better than VT gimme a break

Why?

US news ranking

VT: 47
PSU: 60
Pitt: 67

To me they are comparable.

+1
The PP is the usual troll.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Richmond is private, not public.

But there are lots more....VCU, CNU, ODU, Radford, VMI, UMW. Not sure what more OP needs.

Some are very selective, some not selective at all and some in between.

+1. VA has some of the better state schools around. What the OP wants, I suspect is more schools at the UVA/W&M/VaTech "ranking". They could not imagine sending their kid to GMU, JMU, VCU, ODU, Radford, Mary Washington, etc.

MD has UMD and then it drops to UMBC (266) and then Towson (459)

UVA is 55 and VaTEch is 106 (These are college simply rankings, so you merge all LA, SLAC, regional universities into one ranking). JMU is 258, GMU is 244, VCU 455.

It's a no brainer---VA has much better options for in state than MD.

If you cannot get in, that’s not an option. UVa, W&M and VT are not options for many many Virginia kids.

Being better than MD doesn’t mean much.

Give it a rest. VT accepts about 6 out of 10 applicants. Used to be 7 out of 10. And that includes all the engineering students.

🤣

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

Neither does WilliM and Mary.

And GMU tied with ODU makes sense.

Those are graduate rankings. JMU and W&M do not have chemistry PhD programs. The others do. This discussion was about undergraduate programs.

Anonymous wrote:For anyone who actually cares about the numbers instead of baseless rants:

1) Breakdown of in-state vs out-of-state for VA universities, including NoVA percentages: https://research.schev.edu/enrollment/e19_report.asp

2) State flagships by in-state and over time: https://www.chronicle.com/article/flagships-are-enrolling-more-and-more-freshmen-from-out-of-state

Bottom line: best VA publics are not out of line with flagships elsewhere and NoVA kids are well-represented at W&M and VT (less so at UVA but still about 30% of freshmen).

The prior year UVA had 53.6% from NOVA. I doubt UVA declined from 53.6% to 29.6% from NOVA in one year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

That is for graduate schools. Not undergraduate.

I don't think JMU has any graduate degree programs in chemistry. It would never appear on the list you cited. A school can be very good at undergraduate chemistry (e.g. Swarthmore) and it would never appear on the list you cited. However, their undergraduate program could be better than the undergraduate programs of many on the graduate list.

A better indicator of undergrad quality could be the numbers/% of students who go on to a chemistry PhD.
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs#chemistry

Top 4 by # = Berkeley, UNC, UCSD, UC Davis
Top 4 adjusted for college size = Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, Grinnell

FWIW Swarthmore is #16 in the "adjusted" list

VT is #29 in total, UVA is #42, UMD is #47, JMU doesn't make the list.

You are shortchanging JMU. Here is a current list of undergraduate institutions of PhD recipients. For Chemistry, JMU is ahead of UVA and #7 in the Southeast, ahead of schools like Georgia Tech and the University of Georgia.

https://www.highereddatastories.com/2023/10/undergraduate-institutions-of-doctoral.html

There’s an agenda.

Facts

For anyone who actually cares about the numbers instead of baseless rants:

1) Breakdown of in-state vs out-of-state for VA universities, including NoVA percentages: https://research.schev.edu/enrollment/e19_report.asp

2) State flagships by in-state and over time: https://www.chronicle.com/article/flagships-are-enrolling-more-and-more-freshmen-from-out-of-state

Bottom line: best VA publics are not out of line with flagships elsewhere and NoVA kids are well-represented at W&M and VT (less so at UVA but still about 30% of freshmen).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is nuts. Virginia has a lot of good public colleges for only 8.6M residents. Way more options on a per capita basis than vast majority of states of a similar size.

Pennsylvania has 12.9M residents.

How many decent public colleges/universities for a state of that size? Penn State and Pitt. That's it. Neither of which hold a candle to UVA, W&M, and VT. Pitt is a slightly better version of JMU. Penn State doesn't have an analogue in VA, it's more similar to UMD-CP.

So yeah, VA has an amazing public university system given the moderate size of the state. Sure, the UC system is the best in country but those schools are ENORMOUS. And "best" is really just a measurement of research dollars. If your kid wants a classic liberal arts education prior to going to law school, they are better off at UVA than UCLA or Berkeley.

Pitt and PSU are better than VT gimme a break

Why?

US news ranking

VT: 47
PSU: 60
Pitt: 67

To me they are comparable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Richmond is private, not public.

But there are lots more....VCU, CNU, ODU, Radford, VMI, UMW. Not sure what more OP needs.

Some are very selective, some not selective at all and some in between.

+1. VA has some of the better state schools around. What the OP wants, I suspect is more schools at the UVA/W&M/VaTech "ranking". They could not imagine sending their kid to GMU, JMU, VCU, ODU, Radford, Mary Washington, etc.

MD has UMD and then it drops to UMBC (266) and then Towson (459)

UVA is 55 and VaTEch is 106 (These are college simply rankings, so you merge all LA, SLAC, regional universities into one ranking). JMU is 258, GMU is 244, VCU 455.

It's a no brainer---VA has much better options for in state than MD.

If you cannot get in, that’s not an option. UVa, W&M and VT are not options for many many Virginia kids.

Being better than MD doesn’t mean much.

Give it a rest. VT accepts about 6 out of 10 applicants. Used to be 7 out of 10. And that includes all the engineering students.

Give me a break.

See the in-state vs out of state admission rates. Also compare the engineering vs ag school admission rates.

VT average acceptance rate is relatively high only because the acceptance rate of unpopular majors is quite high and the OOS admission is easier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

That is for graduate schools. Not undergraduate.

I don't think JMU has any graduate degree programs in chemistry. It would never appear on the list you cited. A school can be very good at undergraduate chemistry (e.g. Swarthmore) and it would never appear on the list you cited. However, their undergraduate program could be better than the undergraduate programs of many on the graduate list.

A better indicator of undergrad quality could be the numbers/% of students who go on to a chemistry PhD.
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs#chemistry

Top 4 by # = Berkeley, UNC, UCSD, UC Davis
Top 4 adjusted for college size = Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, Grinnell

FWIW Swarthmore is #16 in the "adjusted" list

VT is #29 in total, UVA is #42, UMD is #47, JMU doesn't make the list.

You are shortchanging JMU. Here is a current list of undergraduate institutions of PhD recipients. For Chemistry, JMU is ahead of UVA and #7 in the Southeast, ahead of schools like Georgia Tech and the University of Georgia.

https://www.highereddatastories.com/2023/10/undergraduate-institutions-of-doctoral.html

There’s an agenda.

VA has one of the top state university systems in the country. There is a school and often a few for every range of student in the state.

Just because your kid doesn’t get into a school that you/they believe they should does not mean that there are not a host of good in-state options.

Also every college wants students from other states and international students to bring a diversity of thought to the institution, otherwise it becomes high school 2.0.

So take a look at the college’s common data set, match against your students stats and apply to appropriate schools. It really is that simple. Not every kid is destined to attend UVA, VT or W&M or whatever your favorite VA school is.