Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

some do. 🥒. FYP

I'm fluent in Gen Z social media and this one still has me flummoxed. We're talking about sending kids to school... what?

It is a reference to a famous fraud who got caught and claimed she was educated in Spain and the US. That their vacations weren’t vacations but actually living and doing to school there. It was a big fat lie.

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Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Yes. But they sold their house there in 2022. Unclear to me that Florida even has jurisdiction in this case if the kids subsequently lived in the US & went on tour unless Joe Jonas has another residence there. Interesting that Sophie filed in NYC. I would guess she's disputing Florida even has jurisdiction. I'm sure he filed there because it was the last place in the US they permanently resided... but if that really ended in 2022, he has a problem.

Sorry, subsequently lived in the *UK* and then went on tour in the US...

According to Sophie's filing, the last time the girls stayed in the Miami house was March 10, 2023, and she and Joe entered a contract to sell the Miami property on or about April 16, 2023. So 2023, not 2022. She does say that Joe was wrong in his divorce filing to say that the kids have resided in Florida for the last six months. She filed in NYC because that is where the kids currently are with her.

Yeah but they didn’t establish residence in the UK either since they were only there for a few months in the spring. Miami is the last place they technically did have a residence by legal definition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Yes. But they sold their house there in 2022. Unclear to me that Florida even has jurisdiction in this case if the kids subsequently lived in the US & went on tour unless Joe Jonas has another residence there. Interesting that Sophie filed in NYC. I would guess she's disputing Florida even has jurisdiction. I'm sure he filed there because it was the last place in the US they permanently resided... but if that really ended in 2022, he has a problem.

Sorry, subsequently lived in the *UK* and then went on tour in the US...

According to Sophie's filing, the last time the girls stayed in the Miami house was March 10, 2023, and she and Joe entered a contract to sell the Miami property on or about April 16, 2023. So 2023, not 2022. She does say that Joe was wrong in his divorce filing to say that the kids have resided in Florida for the last six months. She filed in NYC because that is where the kids currently are with her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Yes. But they sold their house there in 2022. Unclear to me that Florida even has jurisdiction in this case if the kids subsequently lived in the US & went on tour unless Joe Jonas has another residence there. Interesting that Sophie filed in NYC. I would guess she's disputing Florida even has jurisdiction. I'm sure he filed there because it was the last place in the US they permanently resided... but if that really ended in 2022, he has a problem.

Sophie’s petition said that they moved to the UK in April 2023. Her kids were back here with Joe over the summer for a tour. They weren’t in England for more than a couple of months so it’s a complicated case.

The children’s residence of the preceding six months is considered the default jurisdictions. As people have clarified the situation, it certainly sounds like that was the UK and that they were just visiting Dad on his tour which doesn’t count as establishing residency.

I’m team Sophie either way, because as other posters have asserted, very young kids belong with mom unless she is somehow unfit. I don’t think there is anything wrong with this position even in 2023, because in the vast majority of cases mom is primary caregiver.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Yes. But they sold their house there in 2022. Unclear to me that Florida even has jurisdiction in this case if the kids subsequently lived in the US & went on tour unless Joe Jonas has another residence there. Interesting that Sophie filed in NYC. I would guess she's disputing Florida even has jurisdiction. I'm sure he filed there because it was the last place in the US they permanently resided... but if that really ended in 2022, he has a problem.

Sorry, subsequently lived in the *UK* and then went on tour in the US...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Yes. But they sold their house there in 2022. Unclear to me that Florida even has jurisdiction in this case if the kids subsequently lived in the US & went on tour unless Joe Jonas has another residence there. Interesting that Sophie filed in NYC. I would guess she's disputing Florida even has jurisdiction. I'm sure he filed there because it was the last place in the US they permanently resided... but if that really ended in 2022, he has a problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

They didn’t enroll her in school. I think the article said they had talked about where to enroll her.

The filing itself (quoted in the NBC link upthread) states that "the older child is attending school" in England. So at least according to Sophie's filing, the child is already enrolled and has attended school. I guess she could be lying, but that would be idiotic because it would be so easily disproven. So I am inclined to assume it's the truth that Willa attended a preschool in the UK in the spring/summer while she was there.

Anonymous wrote:DP - they BOTH chose to marry and have kids with a citizen from another country. That's on both of them. Sad for the kids, who will end up the losers in this, no matter how it shakes out (and I side mostly with Sophie, but that is in part because I think small kids belong with their mother, even if that's not palatable to say out loud in 2023).

I'm with you on this, though I also don't think we know enough details here. I'm disturbed by the allegation that Joe might have left the UK with the kids without Sophie's permission, or under false pretenses.

Agree they both decided to marry and have kids with someone from another country, but there are some baseline things you DO NOT DO in that situation no matter what is going on in the marriage. One of them is leaving the country with the kids if the other parent doesn't know or doesn't want you to (note that Sophie didn't take the kids to the UK -- she went on her own when she started filming and then Joe came over with the kids to join her -- so definitely two parent consent there).

Sophie is also alleging that Joe was supposed to bring the kids to the UK and didn't, violating a previously-agreed upon custody arrangement. If you are getting divorce, you follow the custody arrangement, especially if the parents are living in different places. Otherwise it looks like you are trying to deny your ex access to the kids.

And finally she's alleging he's withholding the passports. Again, since Joe has travelled internationally with the kids several times, obviously Sophie has not tried to restrict the kids' location in the same way. What would we all be saying if Sophie had withheld the passports from Joe when he left the UK over the summer? That's just some shady $hit right there.

They both have to deal with the obvious mistake they made to marry someone from another country and have kids together, but it really sounds like Joe is behaving like a Grade A a$$hole, and using the kids as emotional footballs, and Sophie is not. Team Sophie on this one, for sure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

They didn’t enroll her in school. I think the article said they had talked about where to enroll her.

DP - they BOTH chose to marry and have kids with a citizen from another country. That's on both of them. Sad for the kids, who will end up the losers in this, no matter how it shakes out (and I side mostly with Sophie, but that is in part because I think small kids belong with their mother, even if that's not palatable to say out loud in 2023).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

If those were short visits how did the 3 yr old wind up enrolled in school? I think they were in the UK for several months this year, starting in April. And they were living in the house they rented in December. It's not like the popped over for a couple weeks, stayed in a hotel, visited Stonehenge and Big Ben, and then went back to their "normal" life in the states. It really sounds like the moved to the UK. They may have done so with the intention of it being just a year or two and then moving back to the US, but it doesn't sound like a vacation. They were living there and now Joe is trying to pretend otherwise even though he can't specify exactly where they live OTHER than the UK. They don't have another home.

If Joe didn't want to split time with his kids in the UK, he should not have married a UK citizen and had dual citizen kids with her. Sophie has also already shown a great deal of willingness to spend time in the US, and as an actor she'd likely be in the US with some frequency for work anyway. This really looks like Joe just not wanting to meet her halfway.

Well it would have been meeting her more than halfway had he actually settled in the UK. With dual citizenship, hard to see how it won't ultimately be a joint custody agreement with time in each country.

How do you figure? They are a dual citizen couple. They lived in the US for 3 years while Sophie had two kids. Then they moved to the UK. They are rich and famous, no one said they were going to live there forever. Perhaps Sophie wanted to make sure that the kids spent substantial time in the UK as children so that they could be connected to that part of their heritage (and develop accents). So they could feel British. But there's no reason this couple could not have split time in both places, and there's no indication that Sophie was saying they had to move to the UK and never leave.

Why does her sacrifice in living in the US for three years, having her kids here, somehow not count for you, but then her expectation that Joe be willing to do the same for her is somehow a huge ask? Her 3 years in the US don't count, but he spends a few months in the UK and apparently that's an undue burden? He married and English woman.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

If those were short visits how did the 3 yr old wind up enrolled in school? I think they were in the UK for several months this year, starting in April. And they were living in the house they rented in December. It's not like the popped over for a couple weeks, stayed in a hotel, visited Stonehenge and Big Ben, and then went back to their "normal" life in the states. It really sounds like the moved to the UK. They may have done so with the intention of it being just a year or two and then moving back to the US, but it doesn't sound like a vacation. They were living there and now Joe is trying to pretend otherwise even though he can't specify exactly where they live OTHER than the UK. They don't have another home.

If Joe didn't want to split time with his kids in the UK, he should not have married a UK citizen and had dual citizen kids with her. Sophie has also already shown a great deal of willingness to spend time in the US, and as an actor she'd likely be in the US with some frequency for work anyway. This really looks like Joe just not wanting to meet her halfway.

Well it would have been meeting her more than halfway had he actually settled in the UK. With dual citizenship, hard to see how it won't ultimately be a joint custody agreement with time in each country.