Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

Exactly. Paying good teachers well, firing bad fits, and acknowledging differences in performance helps everybody, and not having this hurts the best teachers while creating job security for the worst

Theoretically I agree but in practice I have never seen any ideas for rating performance that I would consider fair. I was a special ed teacher. Test scores are meaningless for kids who are performing 4+ grade levels behind. 95% of the admin that did my performance evaluations had virtually zero sped experience (my evals were always fine but do I think that 15 min observation should determine pay/other perks?).

Special Ed teachers should be paid MORE. There is so much paperwork. And meetings. And paperwork. Did I mention the paperwork?

Certainly. I have just never seen any performance pay models that acknowledge any special ed situations, our students just seem to be included in these testing models.
The paperwork was also frustrating because I was known for being on top of it, having well-written IEPs, etc, but I do not recall any admin including that in an evaluation (and really there were no specific sections that addressed it) but obviously it's a huge part of the job and if you make an error and someone notices, central office will be all over you.
So there is zero upside to being a high performer on a huge, very stressful aspect of the job, in fact I usually had more responsibilities piled on me. This is in addition to the teaching that you are actually evaluated on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

Exactly. Paying good teachers well, firing bad fits, and acknowledging differences in performance helps everybody, and not having this hurts the best teachers while creating job security for the worst

Theoretically I agree but in practice I have never seen any ideas for rating performance that I would consider fair. I was a special ed teacher. Test scores are meaningless for kids who are performing 4+ grade levels behind. 95% of the admin that did my performance evaluations had virtually zero sped experience (my evals were always fine but do I think that 15 min observation should determine pay/other perks?).

Special Ed teachers should be paid MORE. There is so much paperwork. And meetings. And paperwork. Did I mention the paperwork?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

+1,000 I mean the ESL teachers pull
Small groups of 4 or less kids and get paid the same. Why am
I putting up with parents and 23 kids + sped inclusion. Also why is that equitable for anyone- children or teachers

I teach ESL and I have 67 students. Yes I pull them in small groups, but that doesn't mean it is any easier than teaching 23. Your students are all one grade level. Mine are grade K-5 and they are all levels, and also many have IEPs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

Exactly. Paying good teachers well, firing bad fits, and acknowledging differences in performance helps everybody, and not having this hurts the best teachers while creating job security for the worst

Theoretically I agree but in practice I have never seen any ideas for rating performance that I would consider fair. I was a special ed teacher. Test scores are meaningless for kids who are performing 4+ grade levels behind. 95% of the admin that did my performance evaluations had virtually zero sped experience (my evals were always fine but do I think that 15 min observation should determine pay/other perks?).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

Exactly. Paying good teachers well, firing bad fits, and acknowledging differences in performance helps everybody, and not having this hurts the best teachers while creating job security for the worst

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

+1,000 I mean the ESL teachers pull
Small groups of 4 or less kids and get paid the same. Why am
I putting up with parents and 23 kids + sped inclusion. Also why is that equitable for anyone- children or teachers

Anonymous wrote:Because teachers are the least overworked employees out there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Career changer here. The difference between most jobs and teaching (at least in high school) is that teaching is like being a manager and the students are the workers.

A manager is responsible for the output of her workers but she gets to screen the workers before hiring them and if they don't perform, she can fire them and replace them with better workers. A teacher is a manager who doesn't get to screen her w for competence and work ethic and she is told to make do with whatever comes in the door. She is held accountable for their performance and if they don't perform, she is told it's her fault for not being engaging enough and to give them one-on-one help so they'll learn the minimum skills they didn't have to begin with and the job they're supposed to being doing.