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Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

This is now a long thread but I thought OP came back and acknowledged homeschooling and her marriage were issues that affected her son negatively. And that she stood by college and religion?

OP here, we pushed DS to go to college because we hoped it would help him find a career path and also help him grow up vs living at home. DS went to the college but didn't go to classes or study so his grades were crap and had to leave. DS blames us to sending him to college but doesn't take responsibility for not going to class or studying. Now his college GPA is so low he feels like he can't enroll in college now if we wanted to. Not his fault, but ours.

After 18 we didn't force church on him, but did expect him to be a godly person in his behavior. He went a bit wild as a young adult.

Pp here. “Godly person”… lol I (and others that I’ve just seen) were spot on. Classic fundie. And for those of you who can’t see it, lucky you.

And fwiw, I’m Christian. Just not the kind that uses their God to justify emotionally immaturity and their rigid way of parenting.

As a Christian, do you consider yourself a Godly person, living your life according to Christian principles and keeping God central in your life?

Anonymous wrote:If you comment on this thread please list how many kids you have raised. And their ages so we can understand your experience or lack of it.

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Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

This is now a long thread but I thought OP came back and acknowledged homeschooling and her marriage were issues that affected her son negatively. And that she stood by college and religion?

OP here, we pushed DS to go to college because we hoped it would help him find a career path and also help him grow up vs living at home. DS went to the college but didn't go to classes or study so his grades were crap and had to leave. DS blames us to sending him to college but doesn't take responsibility for not going to class or studying. Now his college GPA is so low he feels like he can't enroll in college now if we wanted to. Not his fault, but ours.

After 18 we didn't force church on him, but did expect him to be a godly person in his behavior. He went a bit wild as a young adult.

Pp here. “Godly person”… lol I (and others that I’ve just seen) were spot on. Classic fundie. And for those of you who can’t see it, lucky you.

And fwiw, I’m Christian. Just not the kind that uses their God to justify emotionally immaturity and their rigid way of parenting.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

This is now a long thread but I thought OP came back and acknowledged homeschooling and her marriage were issues that affected her son negatively. And that she stood by college and religion?

OP here, we pushed DS to go to college because we hoped it would help him find a career path and also help him grow up vs living at home. DS went to the college but didn't go to classes or study so his grades were crap and had to leave. DS blames us to sending him to college but doesn't take responsibility for not going to class or studying. Now his college GPA is so low he feels like he can't enroll in college now if we wanted to. Not his fault, but ours.

After 18 we didn't force church on him, but did expect him to be a godly person in his behavior. He went a bit wild as a young adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is in pain and he is expressing it and you want to make it go away with a quick "I'm sorry if I anything I did contributed to your unhappiness."

Obviously that is not going to be satisfying for your son! He doesn't want a throwaway non-apology, he wants you to listen and validate his feelings. Why not actually talk it through with him, admit that you made mistakes (specific, not a general "sorry if I made some mistakes") and explain why you did the things you did? Not to make it go away, but so he can see you that you actually care.

I don't think he has doubts that we care. I will admit somethings were mistakes, like homeschooling - it didn't work for him, he fought it. Other things like church were not a mistake even though he doesn't attend church now. The opportunity to go to college was not a mistake. He didn't like it and his grades weren’t good, but he had the chance to try it, but dropped out. Our marriage was challenging and I wish we hid it better from the kids. We did the best we knew at the time. If these are the worse things we did, we should be forgiven.

Anonymous wrote:I am sure you were a good parent OP
Some kids are just duds unfortunately

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Ok, consider OP’s son’s note more like an fyi. Now what?

For which one of them? I must say, I do not care much about the mom in this scenario. She was given the gift of a healthy boy, and she screwed him up with her crappy lifestyle, bad decisions and poor mental health. Good luck to her?

For the son, I hope he continues in therapy, limits his contact with his mom, learns as an adult the things he would have learned as a child in a healthy upbringing, and finds love and peace.

I’m sorry, posting error. I was responding to the person who responded to you that adults have to fix their own lives. Does anyone doubt that? But OP’s son gave her a chance for a closer relationship and she (and many posters) are just stuck in their emotional immaturity.

I doubt the intention was to have a closer relationship. More likely the intention was to deliver a sucker punch. After raising a challenging child, it feels like a thankless job. Parenting is tough and it never ends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Every adult has to own and fix their own sh*t regardless of how it came to be. It's helpful to share feelings with the parents so they understand their adult child and apologize for mistakes. The adult child has to heal themselves, no one can do it for them. It's easy to blame and direct anger at someone else, but it won't fix anything.[/quote]



Dp. But it sure was satisfying to ask my mom (when I was expecting my first child and felt such hope and love) "How would you describe your parenting style when I was a young kid? Seriously, wtf was that?!?!"

What did she say 'mommy dearest with a sprinkle of 'octomom'.?