Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The middle school quota system is already being gamed this school year. Beyond easy during DL. Families have gotten a different address through various means (renting, buying investment property, address of friend). I hope that the TJ admissions staff verifies that the child is actually living at the address, but that will never happen. The child does not even have to be in Fairfax County, Virginia or the US to apply this year. They only need an address and a VPN to make it look like they are logging in from Fairfax County.

If you're a public school student, this isn't going to work. The TJ Admissions Office is going to have their actual residential data from the school that they attend through liaising with their Student Services office - you have to live within center boundaries to attend those AAP centers. If those are mismatched, it will be a huge red flag and may very well disqualify the student.

Only way this would have actually worked is to switch schools, and there is little evidence of a mass flight from Carson or Longfellow to say, Twain or Sandburg. That hasn't happened. What is most likely is that a lot of families just gamed their way right out of the process.

I think you have your head in the sand. It’s apparently not hard to fool the front office staff with an address when enrolling. 1.5% is not a big number - it would not take huge number of families gaming the system to have an impact.

What do you mean by "fool the front office staff"? Every student at every public middle school has an address on file, and that address is used to determine their eligibility to attend that school. For centers, the boundaries are wider because there are fewer of them.

You have to submit an address to apply to TJ, and that address is going to be cross-checked against the address that is on file at the middle school. If they don't match, an investigation will ensue.

The only way to "game the system" for public school students would require them to actually change schools. And again, it's not like there is some hard and fast criteria that the Admissions Office is using to determine that top 1.5%.

The TJ liaison in the Student Services department at each middle school is going to know which students transferred in either over the summer or in, say, October when the geographic weighting was introduced. They are going to share that information with the Admissions Office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overwhelming public evidence exists that the new TJ admissions process was adopted with the purpose of disadvantaging Asian-American students and reducing Asian American enrollment at TJ. As such, these changes violate the Equal Protection Clause.

Helping URMs is a noble goal, but you cannot be biased against Asian Americans in the process. The board essentially gerrymandered the application process to kneecap Asian Americans. The intent is clear.

The application process needs to be redesigned by a board that doesn't hold stereotypes against Asian Americans. The board didn't even pretend to be neutral.

By definition increasing URM numbers at TJ will decrease Asian and White numbers- the math is really simple there. You're basically saying that desegregation is a per se violation of the equal protection clause because it necessarily disadvantages one race- good luck with that

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

The kids who did 3 year testing class and nothing else will not be successful in HS and beyond. They are a small percentage (you need to pass the holistic review after the first cut based on test), and more parents are realizing base schools are the better option for the "mediocre" over-prepped kids. About 10% kids move back to their base school after first year. To identify that category kids, teacher recommendations will help. You know what else FCPS eliminated - teachers' recommendation. So that's not the problem that FCPS is addressing. FCPS doesn't like the racial makeup of the school (Indians are overrepresented) and wants to rebalance it based on race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

The kids who did 3 year testing class and nothing else will not be successful in HS and beyond. They are a small percentage (you need to pass the holistic review after the first cut based on test), and more parents are realizing base schools are the better option for the "mediocre" over-prepped kids. About 10% kids move back to their base school after first year. To identify that category kids, teacher recommendations will help. You know what else FCPS eliminated - teachers' recommendation. So that's not the problem that FCPS is addressing. FCPS doesn't like the racial makeup of the school (Indians are overrepresented) and wants to rebalance it based on race.

FCPS eliminated teacher recommendations because there exists a substantial amount of research to indicate that they are subject to bias based on race (in some cases, harming Asians as well based on some of the same foul stereotypes you see from some of the less-educated on this board). In the end, I believe that they will realize after this year that it's too difficult to contextualize the report cards without the teacher narratives and you will see a re-engineered recommendation form for next year's Class of 2026.

It is also the case that teachers are under an incredible strain this year that is only getting worse with hybrid learning, and the number of applications could very well skyrocket this year. With no semifinal cut to bring the number down to 1200 or so, the number of recommendations that teachers would have to write would be staggering. Additionally, those recommendations would be relatively incomplete because a huge chunk of their time period to evaluate the student would have been under these substandard distance learning conditions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

The kids who did 3 year testing class and nothing else will not be successful in HS and beyond. They are a small percentage (you need to pass the holistic review after the first cut based on test), and more parents are realizing base schools are the better option for the "mediocre" over-prepped kids. About 10% kids move back to their base school after first year. To identify that category kids, teacher recommendations will help. You know what else FCPS eliminated - teachers' recommendation. So that's not the problem that FCPS is addressing. FCPS doesn't like the racial makeup of the school (Indians are overrepresented) and wants to rebalance it based on race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

You pretty much nailed this. I am probably the most vocal pro-reform person on this board (once you clear out the idiots who say "everyone cheats" and "here illegally" and all that crap), and I too was against the lottery for the same reasons you mentioned - although in many ways it would have been an improvement. I think the number of real stars who would be underserved at another high school is closer to 100 than 50, based on my years of experience (the year I was a freshman at TJ started with a 1), and that really, you could have replaced the other 80-90% (of which I was one, mind you) with any of a number of really talented kids with no drop off. But it would absolutely be a damn shame to lose those real stars - and I don't think you will with the new process.

It's a total fallacy that the old process selected the "best" 480 kids. The Admissions Office would tell you this.

TJ's environment desperately needs to be improved. The kids there know it - even those who have grown to love it know it and would love it better if it were more positive and supportive and less competitive. I am hoping that the new admissions process intentionally decides to select for the total contribution of the student to the academic environment, as opposed to the old process which only selected for academic achievement. Academic achievement should be a major component in that process, and this is why I advocate for TJ to allow optional testing submissions if the family wants to, but for TJ not to administer the exam themselves.

But there is so much more that goes into being a positive contributor to the environment, and TJ's student experience would be VASTLY improved (and almost certainly result in better overall outcomes) if the process selected for students who were likely to contribute in that manner. This is why I support (even though they CAN be subject to bias) including one STEM and one non-STEM teacher recommendation in the profile - because it's really only teachers that have a great handle on the contributions a student is likely to make above and beyond just how smart they are. Don't like the subjectivity? Wait until your job references are called ten years from now.

There are way more than 550 kids each year who can thrive in TJ's academic environment. You can have both - outstanding academic achievement and outstanding contributions to the academic environment. It's time for the holistic process to demand more of these students by seeking both.

the more i read from this person, the more i think they should be in charge of tj admissions

The more I read about this topic, the more I think they should eliminate TJ. The navel-gazing within the TJ community knows no bounds, and you're just becoming an ever-bigger drag on the ability of FCPS to focus on what matters to at least 96% of the students it is supposed to be educating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

You pretty much nailed this. I am probably the most vocal pro-reform person on this board (once you clear out the idiots who say "everyone cheats" and "here illegally" and all that crap), and I too was against the lottery for the same reasons you mentioned - although in many ways it would have been an improvement. I think the number of real stars who would be underserved at another high school is closer to 100 than 50, based on my years of experience (the year I was a freshman at TJ started with a 1), and that really, you could have replaced the other 80-90% (of which I was one, mind you) with any of a number of really talented kids with no drop off. But it would absolutely be a damn shame to lose those real stars - and I don't think you will with the new process.

It's a total fallacy that the old process selected the "best" 480 kids. The Admissions Office would tell you this.

TJ's environment desperately needs to be improved. The kids there know it - even those who have grown to love it know it and would love it better if it were more positive and supportive and less competitive. I am hoping that the new admissions process intentionally decides to select for the total contribution of the student to the academic environment, as opposed to the old process which only selected for academic achievement. Academic achievement should be a major component in that process, and this is why I advocate for TJ to allow optional testing submissions if the family wants to, but for TJ not to administer the exam themselves.

But there is so much more that goes into being a positive contributor to the environment, and TJ's student experience would be VASTLY improved (and almost certainly result in better overall outcomes) if the process selected for students who were likely to contribute in that manner. This is why I support (even though they CAN be subject to bias) including one STEM and one non-STEM teacher recommendation in the profile - because it's really only teachers that have a great handle on the contributions a student is likely to make above and beyond just how smart they are. Don't like the subjectivity? Wait until your job references are called ten years from now.

There are way more than 550 kids each year who can thrive in TJ's academic environment. You can have both - outstanding academic achievement and outstanding contributions to the academic environment. It's time for the holistic process to demand more of these students by seeking both.

the more i read from this person, the more i think they should be in charge of tj admissions

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

You pretty much nailed this. I am probably the most vocal pro-reform person on this board (once you clear out the idiots who say "everyone cheats" and "here illegally" and all that crap), and I too was against the lottery for the same reasons you mentioned - although in many ways it would have been an improvement. I think the number of real stars who would be underserved at another high school is closer to 100 than 50, based on my years of experience (the year I was a freshman at TJ started with a 1), and that really, you could have replaced the other 80-90% (of which I was one, mind you) with any of a number of really talented kids with no drop off. But it would absolutely be a damn shame to lose those real stars - and I don't think you will with the new process.

It's a total fallacy that the old process selected the "best" 480 kids. The Admissions Office would tell you this.

TJ's environment desperately needs to be improved. The kids there know it - even those who have grown to love it know it and would love it better if it were more positive and supportive and less competitive. I am hoping that the new admissions process intentionally decides to select for the total contribution of the student to the academic environment, as opposed to the old process which only selected for academic achievement. Academic achievement should be a major component in that process, and this is why I advocate for TJ to allow optional testing submissions if the family wants to, but for TJ not to administer the exam themselves.

But there is so much more that goes into being a positive contributor to the environment, and TJ's student experience would be VASTLY improved (and almost certainly result in better overall outcomes) if the process selected for students who were likely to contribute in that manner. This is why I support (even though they CAN be subject to bias) including one STEM and one non-STEM teacher recommendation in the profile - because it's really only teachers that have a great handle on the contributions a student is likely to make above and beyond just how smart they are. Don't like the subjectivity? Wait until your job references are called ten years from now.

There are way more than 550 kids each year who can thrive in TJ's academic environment. You can have both - outstanding academic achievement and outstanding contributions to the academic environment. It's time for the holistic process to demand more of these students by seeking both.