I would get the extra test scores....it can not hurt (except your wallet)....if the results are lower, do not tell the county about them. And get better work samples. With my DD, the work samples selected by the school showed her strengths, rather than her weaknesses.

Hoping for some advice. Am in the process of appealing the ineligibility for next school year for my second grader. I requested the file, and am 100% certain that his GBRS of 9 in addition to their submisson of what would call the worst example I have ever seen of his work were his reason for not being found eligible. I am not certain what kind of cutoff there is for the GBRS, but I would see a 9 as being unexceptional. I strongly disagree with her assessment. The one area she gave a 3, was motivation, and quite frankly that is what I would consider his weakest area.

His Naglieri score was only 121, 90%

His Scores on the CogAt were 120-Verbal, 148-Nonverbal, 121 Quant.

I will mention that right at the time we were putting together his file we were having behavior issues. We have worked through these, much of what we have done to remedy his silly behavior has involved challenging him in class. I included some writing samples, letters from family members, as well as his religion teacher who has 2 children in the program, and has always commented on how my ds really fit the bill. I also filled out the parent questionnaire the first time around.

My first instinct was to submit him to further testing. After speaking with a numer of experts (an Ed. Psych, guidance counselor friend, AAP teacher at our school) we decided that his 148 score on the CogAT, and 99%ile overall on the CogAT were more than enough to prove him from a testing standpoint. In other words, he passed the testing portion by being 18 points above the cutoff.


That puts me in a position to now fill this appeal out with work samples, another letter from myself (AAP teacher gave thoughts on what to say) and work samples.

Thoughts? is there any chance without further test scores?

We strongly feel that putting him in this challenging environment will allow him to reach what we feel is a great potential, which has been stifled in part by him coasting through his easy current work.

25:57 here. Good for your DC, PP! Congratulations! Thanks for sharing. It's encouraging to hear that the wide discrepancy in scores will not necessarily keep DC out. My DC's scores vary widely (PR high and verbal low -- WMI and processing speed way low), although the verbal scores are better on the WISC than the CogAt.

Anonymous wrote:I guess if DC has ADHD, the idea is that school would become progressively harder and DC would struggle. Just curious, if you don't mind. Did your DC get into the center? Did you have to submit the WISC scores with the large discrepancy?

DC did get into the Center and we did submit WISC only because DC's other tests' scores were also wildly different (1 really high, 1 really low, and the rest in the 120's). We thought we should submit the WISC because the really low score was the verbal CogAt but DC scored very high on the verbal comprehension on the WISC. Our concern is, we feel like we need to address the possible ADHD issue before DC starts in GT in the fall, because I am hearing that the harder work is when kids with ADHD start to struggle, just like you said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The tester said that based on DC's report card (all g's and O's), DC was doing well in school and we should just wait and see what happens.

Does your child have ADHD, PP? My understanding it that the "testing" is really in the form of questionnaires. I wasn't sure about it and didn;t pursue it because it wasn't recommended. Also, DH felt like we should leave DC "alone."

I don't know if DC has ADHD. We haven't had DC tested yet. I was just told that we should because DC's WISC result was a red flag (over 30pt difference between the sections). What are you supposed to wait to see happens?

I guess if DC has ADHD, the idea is that school would become progressively harder and DC would struggle. Just curious, if you don't mind. Did your DC get into the center? Did you have to submit the WISC scores with the large discrepancy?

Anonymous wrote:The tester said that based on DC's report card (all g's and O's), DC was doing well in school and we should just wait and see what happens.

Does your child have ADHD, PP? My understanding it that the "testing" is really in the form of questionnaires. I wasn't sure about it and didn;t pursue it because it wasn't recommended. Also, DH felt like we should leave DC "alone."

I don't know if DC has ADHD. We haven't had DC tested yet. I was just told that we should because DC's WISC result was a red flag (over 30pt difference between the sections). What are you supposed to wait to see happens?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I think they don't look at GAI unless there is a point discrepency of more than a certain number of points (23?), so if your DC doesn't have that discrepancy, they don't calculate it and they use the FSIQ. I have a child with the discrepancy, so the FSIQ is low, but the GAI is bettter. When I mentioned that the the AART, she raised her eyebrows, so I think that's not a good thing. I think you are better off. My DC had a very large discrepancy (although DC has not beein diagnosed with ADHD or any LD -- I suppose possibly DC has ADHD inattentive type, but no one has ever raised it and DC gets Os and Gs in school). I have a feeling that the discrepancy will keep DC out of the Center.

So were you told by the tester that you should have your child tested for ADHD? We came away w/ very similar WISC results--very high in verbal comprehension & perceptual reasoning but significantly lower in memory & processing speed. We were told to have our child tested for ADHD b/c it was a classic profile of a child w/ ADHD. Our child also is not hyperactive and gets virtually all O's.

The tester said that based on DC's report card (all g's and O's), DC was doing well in school and we should just wait and see what happens.

Does your child have ADHD, PP? My understanding it that the "testing" is really in the form of questionnaires. I wasn't sure about it and didn;t pursue it because it wasn't recommended. Also, DH felt like we should leave DC "alone."

Anonymous wrote: I think they don't look at GAI unless there is a point discrepency of more than a certain number of points (23?), so if your DC doesn't have that discrepancy, they don't calculate it and they use the FSIQ. I have a child with the discrepancy, so the FSIQ is low, but the GAI is bettter. When I mentioned that the the AART, she raised her eyebrows, so I think that's not a good thing. I think you are better off. My DC had a very large discrepancy (although DC has not beein diagnosed with ADHD or any LD -- I suppose possibly DC has ADHD inattentive type, but no one has ever raised it and DC gets Os and Gs in school). I have a feeling that the discrepancy will keep DC out of the Center.

So were you told by the tester that you should have your child tested for ADHD? We came away w/ very similar WISC results--very high in verbal comprehension & perceptual reasoning but significantly lower in memory & processing speed. We were told to have our child tested for ADHD b/c it was a classic profile of a child w/ ADHD. Our child also is not hyperactive and gets virtually all O's.

Anonymous wrote:Need advice. I just got my son'sWISC score:

FSIQ - 130
VCI - 126
PRI - 135
WMI - 123
PSI - 106

Is this a good score for making an appeal? His NNAT is 143, CogAt is 129, GBRS is 6.

GMU didn't give us the GAI report. Should we request for that? Some pprevious posts said GAI score might be higher because it doesn't include WMI and PSI. Which one will FCPS accept, FSIQ or GAI? Any experience? Thanks!

I think they don't look at GAI unless there is a point discrepency of more than a certain number of points (23?), so if your DC doesn't have that discrepancy, they don't calculate it and they use the FSIQ. I have a child with the discrepancy, so the FSIQ is low, but the GAI is bettter. When I mentioned that the the AART, she raised her eyebrows, so I think that's not a good thing. I think you are better off. My DC had a very large discrepancy (although DC has not beein diagnosed with ADHD or any LD -- I suppose possibly DC has ADHD inattentive type, but no one has ever raised it and DC gets Os and Gs in school). I have a feeling that the discrepancy will keep DC out of the Center.

Need advice. I just got my son'sWISC score:

FSIQ - 130
VCI - 126
PRI - 135
WMI - 123
PSI - 106

Is this a good score for making an appeal? His NNAT is 143, CogAt is 129, GBRS is 6.

GMU didn't give us the GAI report. Should we request for that? Some pprevious posts said GAI score might be higher because it doesn't include WMI and PSI. Which one will FCPS accept, FSIQ or GAI? Any experience? Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:My son got very good scores (NNAT-143, CogAt-129) yet still got rejected because his GBER was very low(6). His teacher said he talked a lot and could not get school work completed, though she also admitted he did very well academically in math and reading. GBER is very subjective because it is only based on his t eacher's opinion. All the other members in his local committe don't even have interaction with my son. When we met his AAP teacher last week, she pull out his files and said two work samples were not impressive. When we questioned why she didn't let us know before submitting the package, she avoided the question and said let's look forward. I don't think we've got support from the school. I'm waiting for my son's WISC score to make the appeal.

I share you pain. My kid had much similar situations with your son. His Scores (NNAT-146/COGAT-140), GBRS-6. The school
presented two kindergarden examples; I met AAP teacher one day fater the school sent out the package, informed the central office that the school materials and GBRS were inaccurate and misleading. I had his work(outside school) examples sumbitted, very academically sound. He got admitted to the center. I think you should keep tight track on this one just like I did in the whole process- I recalled from march/April was my full-time job fighting with schools.

My son got very good scores (NNAT-143, CogAt-129) yet still got rejected because his GBER was very low(6). His teacher said he talked a lot and could not get school work completed, though she also admitted he did very well academically in math and reading. GBER is very subjective because it is only based on his t eacher's opinion. All the other members in his local committe don't even have interaction with my son. When we met his AAP teacher last week, she pull out his files and said two work samples were not impressive. When we questioned why she didn't let us know before submitting the package, she avoided the question and said let's look forward. I don't think we've got support from the school. I'm waiting for my son's WISC score to make the appeal.

Anonymous wrote:If anything it's likely these kids would be more disruptive in a gen ed class where the pace of instruction is not as fast and they would be more bored and more likely to act out.

Exactly.

See the 2e info on the FCPS website:

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt/pdfs/presentations/Twice%20Exceptional%20Learners.pdf

I don't understand your point PP? If anything it's likely these kids would be more disruptive in a gen ed class where the pace of instruction is not as fast and they would be more bored and more likely to act out. The question was is being ADHD a reason they exclude kids from the centers, and my guess would be no. If anything, the centers have a "reputation" as having "disruptive" kids. All types of kids meet the AAP criteria. OTOH, I can see a second grade teacher who feels like the PP scoring a child lower on the GBRS due to their personal biases. This is the inherent problem in the GBRS IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is ADD really a reason to keep a child out of the program?

No, and there are lots of twice exceptional kids in AAP Centers. My DC is one of them.

Having coached these types of kids in a recreational sports league, I'll bet the teacher would have a different response. I've found them disruptive to others and lacking focus, although on the same mental level as other kids. I think this crosses the line when disruptive not only to themselves, but others and hindering their learning process.