Anonymous
06/06/2018 09:17
Subject: Re:Is wife being unreasonable?
Anonymous wrote:Okay guys, OP here. Again. I went back and forth on continuing this thread, but ultimately I decided to update.
Many of the comments have been extremely harsh. Honestly though, that is not that shocking considering I am posting to an essentially all women/mother forum. You ladies empathize with the wife’s side, and I get that. It’s actually the relatable and natural position for you to take. I was pleased to see there were some comments that really “heard” where I was coming from. I’m not some complete jerk to my wife. I’m not perfect and neither is she. She has many wonderful qualities, but she can also be unforgiving and hold grudges, so it isn’t the easiest thing to side with her against someone I love. (I also wouldn’t side with someone else against her.)
Anyway, I took the advice to drop the idea of my wife and newborn attending the wedding. You all were loud and clear on that point. I have accepted her decision to not attend. I told her I willl be traveling Thursday - Monday and she gave me the green light. The tricky part is my son. She is still refusing to allow me to take him. We had a spirited discussion regarding it and are currently at an impasse. I have spoken to my mom about the situation and she has assured me that she will be happy to help care for my son basically the whole wedding, anytime I need anything. Due to the issues between my wife and my parents, my parents have spent very very little time with my son. (He is their only grandchild at this time.) So they are very eager. There will also be several Aunts, female cousins and friends of my mother present, some of whom I’m certain would pitch in.
My wife is being extremely emotional and unwilling to even entertain a calm and rational conversation about me taking my own kid to my brothers wedding. Surely many of you can see that that is not right. Right? She has stated that if i take my son, it will do such irreparable damage to the marriage that we likely wouldn’t survive. How would you respond to this? To those of you who at least can see that I have the right to take my son with me. Help me out here. I’d love to hear how you would frame your argument, and if you’ve ever been in a situation like this before. (One where you disagreed on something regarding your child and how you came to a solution.)
You have sided with someone else against her. You have sided with your parents when they insulted her and belittled her. You don't think that your parents' treatment of her is a problem. And honestly, this is the root of the problem, and the fact that you can't see it is the real issue. Your wife knows that you don't have her back. She knows that you're not on her side. She knows that you won't stand up for her.
And "basically" the whole wedding? Ha. Her son is getting married. She is going to have things to do. She will be busy. She will have people she wants to visit with. (Just like you, I might add.) Who is going to watch him when it's his nap time and you're supposed to be getting ready for the wedding? Who is going to leave the reception early to put your son to bed and stay with him? Who is going to take him out of the church (and miss the ceremony) when he starts crying or making noise during the ceremony? Everyone will be happy to play with a cute little toddler--until it inconveniences them and they have to miss part of the ceremony or the party to deal with him.
Honestly, I think you need to drop this. The more you push, the more your wife is going to dig in, because, at bottom, this is about your lack of respect for your wife.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 09:08
Subject: Re:Is wife being unreasonable?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Okay guys, OP here. Again. I went back and forth on continuing this thread, but ultimately I decided to update.
Many of the comments have been extremely harsh. Honestly though, that is not that shocking considering I am posting to an essentially all women/mother forum. You ladies empathize with the wife’s side, and I get that. It’s actually the relatable and natural position for you to take. I was pleased to see there were some comments that really “heard” where I was coming from. I’m not some complete jerk to my wife. I’m not perfect and neither is she. She has many wonderful qualities, but she can also be unforgiving and hold grudges, so it isn’t the easiest thing to side with her against someone I love. (I also wouldn’t side with someone else against her.)
Anyway, I took the advice to drop the idea of my wife and newborn attending the wedding. You all were loud and clear on that point. I have accepted her decision to not attend. I told her I willl be traveling Thursday - Monday and she gave me the green light. The tricky part is my son. She is still refusing to allow me to take him. We had a spirited discussion regarding it and are currently at an impasse. I have spoken to my mom about the situation and she has assured me that she will be happy to help care for my son basically the whole wedding, anytime I need anything. Due to the issues between my wife and my parents, my parents have spent very very little time with my son. (He is their only grandchild at this time.) So they are very eager. There will also be several Aunts, female cousins and friends of my mother present, some of whom I’m certain would pitch in.
My wife is being extremely emotional and unwilling to even entertain a calm and rational conversation about me taking my own kid to my brothers wedding. Surely many of you can see that that is not right. Right? She has stated that if i take my son, it will do such irreparable damage to the marriage that we likely wouldn’t survive. How would you respond to this? To those of you who at least can see that I have the right to take my son with me. Help me out here. I’d love to hear how you would frame your argument, and if you’ve ever been in a situation like this before. (One where you disagreed on something regarding your child and how you came to a solution.)
I am a woman and am firmly on your side. You come across as a completely reasonable person just asking for advice.
It's hard for me to help you though, without knowing all of the backstory of the dynamics of your wife/parents. If they were truly unkind or cruel to her, I can understand why she would not want her son around them. But if it's just mutual dislike - then it's unfair of her to keep them from their only grandchild, as well as all of the extended family your child will get to see/meet at the wedding.
His mom called his pregnant wife lazy and accused of her causing birth defects by drinking before she knew she was pregnant. His father screamed at her that she was cruel and abusive. They have never apologized. OP takes his parents' side. That's more than mutual dislike.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:49
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
DW does not the 2 year old going because of the past verbal attacks against her mothering. Especially as there has been no apology.
Wife is already planning her way out of the marriage. No one wants to remain with someone who is not supportive and takes a back seat while family members verbally attack. She wanted the second child by the same father, and then once fully on her feet she will be working towards exiting the marriage.
Wife is already planning her way out of the marriage. No one wants to remain with someone who is not supportive and takes a back seat while family members verbally attack. She wanted the second child by the same father, and then once fully on her feet she will be working towards exiting the marriage.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:43
Subject: Re:Is wife being unreasonable?
Anonymous wrote:Okay guys, OP here. Again. I went back and forth on continuing this thread, but ultimately I decided to update.
Many of the comments have been extremely harsh. Honestly though, that is not that shocking considering I am posting to an essentially all women/mother forum. You ladies empathize with the wife’s side, and I get that. It’s actually the relatable and natural position for you to take. I was pleased to see there were some comments that really “heard” where I was coming from. I’m not some complete jerk to my wife. I’m not perfect and neither is she. She has many wonderful qualities, but she can also be unforgiving and hold grudges, so it isn’t the easiest thing to side with her against someone I love. (I also wouldn’t side with someone else against her.)
Anyway, I took the advice to drop the idea of my wife and newborn attending the wedding. You all were loud and clear on that point. I have accepted her decision to not attend. I told her I willl be traveling Thursday - Monday and she gave me the green light. The tricky part is my son. She is still refusing to allow me to take him. We had a spirited discussion regarding it and are currently at an impasse. I have spoken to my mom about the situation and she has assured me that she will be happy to help care for my son basically the whole wedding, anytime I need anything. Due to the issues between my wife and my parents, my parents have spent very very little time with my son. (He is their only grandchild at this time.) So they are very eager. There will also be several Aunts, female cousins and friends of my mother present, some of whom I’m certain would pitch in.
My wife is being extremely emotional and unwilling to even entertain a calm and rational conversation about me taking my own kid to my brothers wedding. Surely many of you can see that that is not right. Right? She has stated that if i take my son, it will do such irreparable damage to the marriage that we likely wouldn’t survive. How would you respond to this? To those of you who at least can see that I have the right to take my son with me. Help me out here. I’d love to hear how you would frame your argument, and if you’ve ever been in a situation like this before. (One where you disagreed on something regarding your child and how you came to a solution.)
I am a woman and am firmly on your side. You come across as a completely reasonable person just asking for advice.
It's hard for me to help you though, without knowing all of the backstory of the dynamics of your wife/parents. If they were truly unkind or cruel to her, I can understand why she would not want her son around them. But if it's just mutual dislike - then it's unfair of her to keep them from their only grandchild, as well as all of the extended family your child will get to see/meet at the wedding.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:40
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
Anonymous wrote:Guy here. Tell your wife that if she doesn't let you take the 2 years old to the wedding, you're going to resent her for the rest of your life, which is true. If she doesn't relent, well, you guys are going to divorce soon.
I think her staying with newborn with her mother, and your going to the wedding with the toddler is the best compromise. Too bad you two are too stubborn for the good of your marriage.
Too late, he already resents her for not kowtowing to his parents abuse, and for birthing babies and not jumping at the opportunity to drag her PP self and a toddler across the country to be a punching bag.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:39
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
Guy here. Tell your wife that if she doesn't let you take the 2 years old to the wedding, you're going to resent her for the rest of your life, which is true. If she doesn't relent, well, you guys are going to divorce soon.
I think her staying with newborn with her mother, and your going to the wedding with the toddler is the best compromise. Too bad you two are too stubborn for the good of your marriage.
I think her staying with newborn with her mother, and your going to the wedding with the toddler is the best compromise. Too bad you two are too stubborn for the good of your marriage.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:31
Subject: Re:Is wife being unreasonable?
Everyone on DCUM is piling on OP for saying his mom, aunts etc. will be watching his son. But seriously, he's in a no-win situation. If he said grandfather, uncles, etc. everyone would jump on him about how men of that generation don't know the first thing about caring for a two year old. To OP: I get where you're coming from with that.
However, if you and your wife do decide to let your son go with you, I recommend you do several things before the trip. two year olds will have meltdowns, have attachment issues, will spiral in new and different environments. Change is hard for kids at that age. Your son will be dealing with a new baby, less attention from mom, and then (from his point of view) taken away from mom for several days.
I recommend you take a couple of weekend trips away with just your son from now until the wedding. Let him get used to a weekend of just him and Dad. Please don't let his first trip away from mom be for the wedding - you are setting him (and you) up for failure.
with these weekend trips, he'll be able to get comfortable going to you for everything (since your wife is a SAHM, I'm guessing your son goes to her as a first response) and you'll get comfortable navigating the situation when he has trouble.
Second, you mentioned that your parents haven't seen your son very much since he was born. After a few father/son trips, have a trip that includes your parents. During that weekend, try and be "hands -off" and I urge you to be an unbiased observer of how your parents take care of your son. Do they automatically but subtly lean on you after an hour or two? Do they rely on you when they have to multi-task (prepare food or getting ready or buying tickets or whatever while at the same time watching your son). this would be a BIG indicator of whether you could feel comfortable relying on them to watch your son.
Finally, and on a separate note, I understand your reluctance to stick up for your wife when there is dissension. It's always hard when two people you love don't like each other. But, I think you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with your parents - without your wife present - about THEIR role in this and how THEIR behavior is upsetting YOU (not upsetting your wife, but upsetting YOU).
I know because I was in the same position and for the first 5 years of our marriage, my parents didn't like my DH and made rude comments and always dismissed him. I was passive and kept telling my DH to "just ignore them" hoping it'll all go away. Well, it didn't. after a couple years of counseling (and a couple of attempts at sitting down with parents and DH) I realized that my parents love me and when I'd sit down with everyone and say "you're being mean to DH and he doesn't like it so stop" What they heard was "my DH is upset about this but I either don't care or agree with you but to keep peace and for show I'm going to sit everyone down and publicly tell you to stop."
That didn't work. Finally, when they truly believed that I - and I alone - was upset when hearing negative things about my DH they stopped.
we've been married 19 years this year and after a while (and a few reminders to my parents that they are upsetting ME with their comments) they ended up getting along with DH. Now? My mom, who is now a widow, goes to DH for advice instead of me for some things and they get along great.
All of this rambling is to say that you have to really feel bad when your parents make negative comments or yell at your wife and if you do - you need to tell your parents. If you don't? you have much bigger problems.
However, if you and your wife do decide to let your son go with you, I recommend you do several things before the trip. two year olds will have meltdowns, have attachment issues, will spiral in new and different environments. Change is hard for kids at that age. Your son will be dealing with a new baby, less attention from mom, and then (from his point of view) taken away from mom for several days.
I recommend you take a couple of weekend trips away with just your son from now until the wedding. Let him get used to a weekend of just him and Dad. Please don't let his first trip away from mom be for the wedding - you are setting him (and you) up for failure.
with these weekend trips, he'll be able to get comfortable going to you for everything (since your wife is a SAHM, I'm guessing your son goes to her as a first response) and you'll get comfortable navigating the situation when he has trouble.
Second, you mentioned that your parents haven't seen your son very much since he was born. After a few father/son trips, have a trip that includes your parents. During that weekend, try and be "hands -off" and I urge you to be an unbiased observer of how your parents take care of your son. Do they automatically but subtly lean on you after an hour or two? Do they rely on you when they have to multi-task (prepare food or getting ready or buying tickets or whatever while at the same time watching your son). this would be a BIG indicator of whether you could feel comfortable relying on them to watch your son.
Finally, and on a separate note, I understand your reluctance to stick up for your wife when there is dissension. It's always hard when two people you love don't like each other. But, I think you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with your parents - without your wife present - about THEIR role in this and how THEIR behavior is upsetting YOU (not upsetting your wife, but upsetting YOU).
I know because I was in the same position and for the first 5 years of our marriage, my parents didn't like my DH and made rude comments and always dismissed him. I was passive and kept telling my DH to "just ignore them" hoping it'll all go away. Well, it didn't. after a couple years of counseling (and a couple of attempts at sitting down with parents and DH) I realized that my parents love me and when I'd sit down with everyone and say "you're being mean to DH and he doesn't like it so stop" What they heard was "my DH is upset about this but I either don't care or agree with you but to keep peace and for show I'm going to sit everyone down and publicly tell you to stop."
That didn't work. Finally, when they truly believed that I - and I alone - was upset when hearing negative things about my DH they stopped.
we've been married 19 years this year and after a while (and a few reminders to my parents that they are upsetting ME with their comments) they ended up getting along with DH. Now? My mom, who is now a widow, goes to DH for advice instead of me for some things and they get along great.
All of this rambling is to say that you have to really feel bad when your parents make negative comments or yell at your wife and if you do - you need to tell your parents. If you don't? you have much bigger problems.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:07
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
^ exactly. It would be me convincing dh to go in this circumstance.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:03
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
OP, we're not siding with your wife bc we are women, but because we are grown ups. I don't know what marriage means to you, but it should mean a partnership of equals, of respect and of trust. You've thrown your wife under the bus letting your parents treat her so badly and then expecting her to just let it go. It is not a "grudge" she is holding....your parents showed her who they are, broke her trust and so did you. YOU need to be working on regaining that trust and stop expecting her to just "get over it."
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:02
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
Anonymous wrote:I pretty much guarantee that if you take your toddler and he acts like a two year old, your parents will take every opportunity to badmouth your wife for leaving you with a toddler, and complain about how they had to miss parts of their wonderful weekend /wedding to mind a tired, overstimulated child. They’ll lash out about her not attending to watch your child, as he will pull YOUR attention away from the wedding. And on and on.
And you will fall for it, and co tinge to blame your wife for being overly emotional and holding grudges, all the while while she is being verbally abused by your family and you are allowing, supporting, and encouraging it.
It’s sad to me that you can really not see why she is not interested in participating in your family’s drama.
+1
Dp here. This is really true. I come from a more traditional/conservative family and even i agree that this is what will happen. Any issue with the child will not be proof that your wife was right in insisting on keeping him home but rather proof that your wife was negligent for not attending the wedding with the child.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 08:00
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Firstly, you've said your Mum, and "several Aunts, female cousins and friends of my mother present" who will help look after the toddler. Is this an all woman wedding? Are you going to be the only man present? Is your plan to arrive and dump your toddler with a group of woman, some of whom you don't even know all that well? Do these woman know his preferred foods? His allergies? Any medication he requires? Do they know what to do if he gets fussy? It sounds like your plan for this wedding is to bring your child as a toy or accessory and not be a parent.
Secondly, you need to take a step back here and look at this situation out of your mothers anus. Both. Of. Your. Parents. Have. Been Verbally. Abusive. To. Your .WIFE. AND YOUR RESPONSE IS TO DEFEND THEM AND TELL HER SHE IS IN THE WRONG. What guarantee do you or your wife have that your parents won't be verbally abusive to your son? Or won't spend the entire time telling his what a 'lazy evil' mother he has? Why on earth should she trust your parents to look after her son?
IF you had a history of standing up to your parents to protect your wife and child then yes, you should take your son. But the fact is you don't, and if fact agree with all of them, which means you agree your wife was lazy, could have harm your child and deserves to be shouted at.
If you take your son, expect to come home to an empty house. Your wife deserves someone who loves her and puts her and your children first.
I'm sure there will be just as many men at the wedding as women. OP clearly sees looking after children as women's work, which is why he just "supports" his wife with the childcare and why she therefore has no faith in his ability to care for the toddler when she isn't there.
His sexism is dripping off his post... and we're only agreeing with the wife because we're women!
It doesn’t even occur to op that his statement is problematic.
I would have no problem with my dh taking my child. But he is an active and engaged parent even tho I sah. He also is close with his parents and family but would never tolerate hurtful or judge mental or mean spirited talk about me. I can trust his judgement. Op’s Wife cannot trust his.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 07:58
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
I pretty much guarantee that if you take your toddler and he acts like a two year old, your parents will take every opportunity to badmouth your wife for leaving you with a toddler, and complain about how they had to miss parts of their wonderful weekend /wedding to mind a tired, overstimulated child. They’ll lash out about her not attending to watch your child, as he will pull YOUR attention away from the wedding. And on and on.
And you will fall for it, and co tinge to blame your wife for being overly emotional and holding grudges, all the while while she is being verbally abused by your family and you are allowing, supporting, and encouraging it.
It’s sad to me that you can really not see why she is not interested in participating in your family’s drama.
And you will fall for it, and co tinge to blame your wife for being overly emotional and holding grudges, all the while while she is being verbally abused by your family and you are allowing, supporting, and encouraging it.
It’s sad to me that you can really not see why she is not interested in participating in your family’s drama.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 07:56
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
I like how op dismisses most perspectives bc:
1. They disagree with him and
2. They come from women.
It doesn’t matter how thoughtfully several posters have responded, even those that disagreed.
1. They disagree with him and
2. They come from women.
It doesn’t matter how thoughtfully several posters have responded, even those that disagreed.
Anonymous
06/06/2018 07:38
Subject: Re:Is wife being unreasonable?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Okay guys, OP here. Again. I went back and forth on continuing this thread, but ultimately I decided to update.
Many of the comments have been extremely harsh. Honestly though, that is not that shocking considering I am posting to an essentially all women/mother forum. You ladies empathize with the wife’s side, and I get that. It’s actually the relatable and natural position for you to take. I was pleased to see there were some comments that really “heard” where I was coming from. I’m not some complete jerk to my wife. I’m not perfect and neither is she. She has many wonderful qualities, but she can also be unforgiving and hold grudges, so it isn’t the easiest thing to side with her against someone I love. (I also wouldn’t side with someone else against her.)
Anyway, I took the advice to drop the idea of my wife and newborn attending the wedding. You all were loud and clear on that point. I have accepted her decision to not attend. I told her I willl be traveling Thursday - Monday and she gave me the green light. The tricky part is my son. She is still refusing to allow me to take him. We had a spirited discussion regarding it and are currently at an impasse. I have spoken to my mom about the situation and she has assured me that she will be happy to help care for my son basically the whole wedding, anytime I need anything. Due to the issues between my wife and my parents, my parents have spent very very little time with my son. (He is their only grandchild at this time.) So they are very eager. There will also be several Aunts, female cousins and friends of my mother present, some of whom I’m certain would pitch in.
My wife is being extremely emotional and unwilling to even entertain a calm and rational conversation about me taking my own kid to my brothers wedding. Surely many of you can see that that is not right. Right? She has stated that if i take my son, it will do such irreparable damage to the marriage that we likely wouldn’t survive. How would you respond to this? To those of you who at least can see that I have the right to take my son with me. Help me out here. I’d love to hear how you would frame your argument and if you’ve ever been in a situation like this before. (One where you disagreed on something regarding your child and how you came to a solution.)
This 100%. Plus think of your brother and future SIL. I'm sure they would love to see your son but not at their wedding without his mom there to soothe him if he has a tantrum (and seriously, even the most perfect children have tantrums when they have just traveled and are away from one of their parents). Plus, it isn't fair to your brother and SIL if the best man and the mother of the groom have to be preoccupied during the wedding/reception caring for a toddler. As pp's said, someone will have to watch him ALL THE TIME. If you weren't in the wedding, as his dad, you could do that. But realistically, the only person you should trust to do that is his mom. Who is going to make sure he doesn't grab a glass of alcohol off the table and no one notices b/c they are all focused on your toast? I'm sure that grandma wants to play "mommy" for the weekend with her grandson. But is she going to give him a cookie and say "oh I bet your mean mommy doesn't let you have these kind of treats?" You are so sexist and obtuse (and I am sorry - I rarely use such harsh terms on DCUM) that you think that the only reason that we are siding with your wife is because we are all women. Your parents have been more than mean to her - they have been abusive and you have not stood up to her. You have agreed with them. Did you talk to your wife's obgyn about how the alcohol wasn't a big deal and then explain that to your mom? No, you fed the beast. Why did your mom even know? You are the one doing irreparable damage. I suggest that you get yourself into counseling if you want to save your marriage.
Dear Op,
Of course your wife is emotional right now! She is pregnant and you are stressing her out. You seem to think that 2 years old is a big kid but, really they are babies. Ask yourself this: Will your son be happy to be away from his mom? Has he ever been away for that long? What would you do if your son was inconsolable during the wedding? If your son doesn't know anyone not sure how they are going to soothe him.
So, instead of thinking only of your "rights" to bring your son and how you want to prove your wife wrong why don't you think of your son? Have you ever taken care of him for a weekend by yourself? Ie wife not even there? If your son was a bit older, say four I would say it would be easier for you. Also, your wife doesn't trust your parents. How would you feel if you didn't trust her parents and yet wife is asking them to take care of your most loved person in the world...your son! Add to the fact, that I'm assuming you haven't taken care of him solo so surely you can understand why she is reluctant.
I were you I would back off on the wedding discussion. Make plans for your parents to visit or you to take son to visit your parents before the wedding ( like other pps suggested) Get your parents to start being nicer to your wife and you all try to make amends. Then if that goes well and you can bring up the discussion about bringing your son to the wedding.
Personally, you will have a better time solo at the wedding. The two year old will not miss anything by missing the wedding. Heck we had our four year old nephew and he remembers nothing of the wedding! He is going to be out of sorts with the new baby don't make it harder on you or him and leave the kid at home.
Also, we support your wife because we have given birth and some of us have difficult in-laws. I don't think your mom is up to the challenge of taking care of a two year old and it isn't fair because she will miss most of her son's wedding if she has to. ( same with your Aunts, cousins etc.) Who wants to go to a wedding and then not see it?
Anonymous
06/06/2018 07:23
Subject: Is wife being unreasonable?
Please, for the love of God, OP, admit that you are a troll.