The middle school and high school magnet programs in particular are meant to serve students who are highly gifted AND highly capable. Entrance is not based purely on an IQ test. The tests measure your ability to do well in reading comprehension and mathematics- which requires the applicants to have read a lot over the years and to have done well in above grade level math classes for years too. Applicants also have to write essays as part of the application and for some programs they have to write an essay during the test. Teacher recommendations are also considered and these recommendations evaluate the applicant's work ethic in addition to their intelligence. The programs also consider the applicant's academic record - their grades for at least the previous year. There is an important reason for this - the middle school and high school magnets expect their students to handle a curriculum that is at least two grade levels above the advanced level curriculum in a regular school. It is not surprising therefore that students who are admitted to these programs tend to come from families that place a very high value on education. Most of the children I know in these programs have been supported from a very young age by parents who have read to them, have spent lots of time with them, they have attended high quality preschools, their parents show up for every back to school night and teacher conference and ask their children about their school day and homework everyday. The kids are overwhelmingly from middle class families but are not necessarily rich. Most of the parents have graduate degrees. So yes these children have many advantages that makes them more likely to be admitted to these programs and indeed make them more likely to succeed once they get there. So how do we help equally gifted children who are not as lucky as these children? I don't think the answer is to change the criteria for admission to magnet programs. I would support universal preschool. I would support more resources in K-5 to identify children with potential who are not getting enough support at home. My child attended a Title 2 school K-3 and has been in magnet programs since then. There were kids in his title 2 school who did not have books or crayons at home. There was low turnout on back to school night. There is only so much a public school can do to to compensate for a lack of a supportive home environment. It is not impossible but it will take a lot of effort on the part of MCPS. If we want to be close the achievement gap, we have to be honest about all the causes so we can come up with effective solutions.

Anonymous wrote:
So then why are you saying people are being racist for talking about race and magnets?

What I said:

Lots and lots and lots of PPs: MCPS is planning to admit unqualified kids based on their belonging to certain races/ethnicities!
The PP you're responding to: DCUM is defining people as "us" or "them" based on their belonging to certain races/ethnicities.
You: Stop playing the race card!

Where did I call anybody a racist?

The point is that EVERYBODY is "playing the race card" -- at least in my definition of the phrase. Not just the PP who is talking about people categorizing "us" and "them" by race/ethnicity. But nobody accused the "MCPS is planning to admit unqualified kids based on their belonging to certain races/ethnicities!" posters of "playing the race card". Why not?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You have no idea what color people's skin are who are posting that they shouldn't have separate criterias. *You* are making that assumption. Like I stated, there are Blacks/Hispanics in HGC; there are Black/Hispanic families that are well to do; there Asian/White families that are low income; there are even Asian/white families where the parents don't speak English, and kid is in ESOL. *You* are the one stating that people are making it about "us" and "them", assuming it's about race.

Us = "people who want to keep magnets challenging and entrance criteria the same for everyone"
Them = "people who want to make the entrance criteria different for different groups of people"

No, I'm not. One of the major questions in the report, which is the topic of the discussion, is what to do about the underrepresentation of black and Hispanic kids in the application magnets. Since the report is explicitly talking about race and ethnicity, it is not possible to discuss the report without talking about race and ethnicity.

So then why are you saying people are being racist for talking about race and magnets?

Anonymous wrote:

You have no idea what color people's skin are who are posting that they shouldn't have separate criterias. *You* are making that assumption. Like I stated, there are Blacks/Hispanics in HGC; there are Black/Hispanic families that are well to do; there Asian/White families that are low income; there are even Asian/white families where the parents don't speak English, and kid is in ESOL. *You* are the one stating that people are making it about "us" and "them", assuming it's about race.

Us = "people who want to keep magnets challenging and entrance criteria the same for everyone"
Them = "people who want to make the entrance criteria different for different groups of people"

No, I'm not. One of the major questions in the report, which is the topic of the discussion, is what to do about the underrepresentation of black and Hispanic kids in the application magnets. Since the report is explicitly talking about race and ethnicity, it is not possible to discuss the report without talking about race and ethnicity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then you would be wrong. No parent I know whose kids go to magnet (including me) care about the color of the skin of the kids in the program. You are confusing the desire to keep the entrance criteria fair for *everyone* and the program challenging with "we don't like Blacks/Hispanics". That's quite a far leap. Stop playing the race card.

Lots and lots and lots of PPs: MCPS is planning to admit unqualified kids based on their belonging to certain races/ethnicities!
The PP you're responding to: DCUM is defining people as "us" or "them" based on their belonging to certain races/ethnicities.
You: Stop playing the race card!

You have no idea what color people's skin are who are posting that they shouldn't have separate criterias. *You* are making that assumption. Like I stated, there are Blacks/Hispanics in HGC; there are Black/Hispanic families that are well to do; there Asian/White families that are low income; there are even Asian/white families where the parents don't speak English, and kid is in ESOL. *You* are the one stating that people are making it about "us" and "them", assuming it's about race.

Us = "people who want to keep magnets challenging and entrance criteria the same for everyone"
Them = "people who want to make the entrance criteria different for different groups of people"

Anonymous wrote:

Then you would be wrong. No parent I know whose kids go to magnet (including me) care about the color of the skin of the kids in the program. You are confusing the desire to keep the entrance criteria fair for *everyone* and the program challenging with "we don't like Blacks/Hispanics". That's quite a far leap. Stop playing the race card.

Lots and lots and lots of PPs: MCPS is planning to admit unqualified kids based on their belonging to certain races/ethnicities!
The PP you're responding to: DCUM is defining people as "us" or "them" based on their belonging to certain races/ethnicities.
You: Stop playing the race card!

Anonymous wrote:exactly pp get rid of the magnets and have high quality education for every student at every school

Nothing could be simpler!

Wait, no, actually, that's pretty complicated. Everybody has "high-quality education for every student at every school" as a goal. The question is, specifically what do we do to achieve that goal?

Anonymous wrote:exactly pp get rid of the magnets and have high quality education for every student at every school

this, my friend, is how you kill public schools. mcps will be like pgps in less than 10 years.

exactly pp get rid of the magnets and have high quality education for every student at every school

Anonymous wrote:None of us know how the magnet application process will change. This is just an outside study with recommendations.

But I get the sense from all these comments that people on DCUM think of "us" as the gifted white and Asian students, and "them" as the potentially lower scoring black and Hispanic students. MCPS and the school board does not think this way. They are responsible for all the children.

If every black and Hispanic kid in the county dropped out of school, would you posters even care? If MCPS decided to officially segregate the entire school system based on IQ, would you think this was a good idea? I know those suggestions are nuts but I get the sense from some posters here that they really don't care about anyone but their kid.

Then you would be wrong. No parent I know whose kids go to magnet (including me) care about the color of the skin of the kids in the program. You are confusing the desire to keep the entrance criteria fair for *everyone* and the program challenging with "we don't like Blacks/Hispanics". That's quite a far leap. Stop playing the race card.

Anonymous wrote:None of us know how the magnet application process will change. This is just an outside study with recommendations.

But I get the sense from all these comments that people on DCUM think of "us" as the gifted white and Asian students, and "them" as the potentially lower scoring black and Hispanic students. MCPS and the school board does not think this way. They are responsible for all the children.

If every black and Hispanic kid in the county dropped out of school, would you posters even care? If MCPS decided to officially segregate the entire school system based on IQ, would you think this was a good idea? I know those suggestions are nuts but I get the sense from some posters here that they really don't care about anyone but their kid.

MCPS has already spend a lot more per student for the kids in east side of the county, and will continue do so but we all know, nomatter how many mcps spends, the achivemen gap will persist for ling time. Admitting more students "other groups" who are not ready to meet the charllenge will only let them down.

If admitting all the students to HGC/magnet from "other groups" will prevent them drop out of schooll, you will win the highest honor on earth!!! I believe people like me would be happy to see magnet/HGC in every school. It will produce more future tax payers, less crime, no drug on street!

Anonymous wrote:None of us know how the magnet application process will change. This is just an outside study with recommendations.

But I get the sense from all these comments that people on DCUM think of "us" as the gifted white and Asian students, and "them" as the potentially lower scoring black and Hispanic students. MCPS and the school board does not think this way. They are responsible for all the children.

If every black and Hispanic kid in the county dropped out of school, would you posters even care? If MCPS decided to officially segregate the entire school system based on IQ, would you think this was a good idea? I know those suggestions are nuts but I get the sense from some posters here that they really don't care about anyone but their kid.

I think this is profoundly unfair. We're having the same conversation on two threads, so I'll repost the gist of what I said on the other one- MCPS is looking for a cheap solution to an expensive problem.

The achievement gap cannot be closed by only judging low-income kids against other low-income kids, or by "group specific standards."

Closing the achievement gap would mean a MASSIVE investment in high quality pre-K for everyone, summer school, and identification and encouragement of high performing low income kids well before the 3rd grade test.

My kids are at a high poverty, majority minority, ES in the eastern part of MoCo. I see kids who were on par with my kids in kindergarten slipping behind as they move onto 2nd and 3rd grade. Why? It isn't a lack of parental engagement. It's summers with nothing to do but hang out at a neighbor's house because summer camp is expensive. It's the high cost of enrichment activities like instrumental music, which the middle class kids have been doing since pre-K but the schools don't start until 4th grade.

I see the problem, and I care because these are my kids' friends. But I don't think the answer to the problem is to set up different standards for those kids to enter the HGC or other programs. The answer is to nurture these kids and keep them from slipping behind starting in kindergarten if not before.

Anonymous wrote:The Metis report is so useless I am surprised they even get paid.

I do hope we can thorw the incompetent members of BOE out. The core value of any school program is learning. Why are only hearing anout equity when so many problems are deep rooted in society that the school cannot do much about. If all the kids feel challenged in their home school, I doubt there will be so much angst about the magnet programs.

This can only be done if the people who are dissatisfied with the current BoE members run for the BoE themselves. Are you doing that? Or are you working to help somebody who is?

None of us know how the magnet application process will change. This is just an outside study with recommendations.

But I get the sense from all these comments that people on DCUM think of "us" as the gifted white and Asian students, and "them" as the potentially lower scoring black and Hispanic students. MCPS and the school board does not think this way. They are responsible for all the children.

If every black and Hispanic kid in the county dropped out of school, would you posters even care? If MCPS decided to officially segregate the entire school system based on IQ, would you think this was a good idea? I know those suggestions are nuts but I get the sense from some posters here that they really don't care about anyone but their kid.

The Metis report is so useless I am surprised they even get paid.

I do hope we can thorw the incompetent members of BOE out. The core value of any school program is learning. Why are only hearing anout equity when so many problems are deep rooted in society that the school cannot do much about. If all the kids feel challenged in their home school, I doubt there will be so much angst about the magnet programs.