Anonymous
05/10/2016 19:47
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Will you please stop confusing "Club" with "League".
The NFL is a league, the Washington Redskins are a "team" or "club" that play in the NFL.
Right. My bad. VYS is a club with multiple individual teams in various age groups. It is also an administration. Sorry for the misuse of terms.
Let me try to be clearer by restating: VYS administration seems to be highly insular and slow to respond to problems. I don't know who any of the board members are ...
So you're the expert on VYS, and yet you can't be bothered to look at their web site, which has bios of the board members and minutes from board meetings.
Put it this way: Why else would VYS have experienced such a player and employee talent drain in the last 3 years? Because the parents and employees aren't buying what VYS is selling and they're voting with their feet and wallets.
A couple of bad hires. Now gone.
That said, we have met some good people who are associated with VYS. Some are volunteer parents, some are paid "professional" coaches. It seems to us that VYS administration is hindering these good folks through poor leadership and bad management decisions.
The good professional coaches should be empowered now that Gunney is out.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 15:58
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: (FWIW, Freedom Hill Elementary's U-10 fields are downright dangerous.)
Really? Believe it or not, people once played on grass before the affluent suburbs decided to turf everything. Most of us didn't play on a field as nice as Freedom Hill until high school or college. And most of the best players in the world learned the game in the streets or sandlots with a ball of tape serving as the ball.
Our standards in this area are a bit much. Trust me, poor little Johnny will be just fine if he doesn't practice on perfectly groomed turf fields maintained to the same standards of FedEx Field. Dare I suggest that he might even develop better as a result.
That's why I said the U-10 field. You know, the one out front by the street wedged between trees and the parking lot....not the nice grass field out back of the school. The field up front was deeply rutted and dried with huge tire track imprints all over the field. Overall, the fields are good. The point of relating that, is that VYS seems to be losing out on well-lit turf fields like the Jones Branch location because their turnover is so horrendous. Which, is a symptom of poor leadership.
In other words ... one field. OK.
Where do you get the "losing out on Jones Branch" rumor? Granted, the turnover in the fields position has been a very bad thing in general.
The new Bethesda South team practices at Jones Branch I believe.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 15:26
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:
Where do you get the "losing out on Jones Branch" rumor? Granted, the turnover in the fields position has been a very bad thing in general.
All I know is that the Jones Branch field is no longer being used for our age group. Too bad. It is a nice facility. And, yes, maybe my expectations are higher than they would be if I lived in Brazil or Mexico. I grew up in playing soccer - on occasion - in Tijuana, MEX so I'm not stuck on playing on perfectly manicured grass. Far from it.
But when we're paying a fairly hefty sum for travel soccer and we're practicing on the mud at Kilmer and we're losing practices at Jones Branch bc VYS can't get it's act together, that informs my decision about where to spend my money. It's not THE decisive factor, and, if it were the only problem, it'd be minor. In fact, if it weren't for the other problems with our VYS experience, I wouldn't have mentioned it. But, again, with the interests of warning other newcomers, it's worth mentioning.
In sum - our experience with VYS - over a few years, in house and travel, has been a HASSLE at best. We tried a different local program and we are THRILLED with it. Parents are great, administration is transparent and interested in customer service. Coaching is far superior. Fields are available. Expenses are lower. Yep. Much better.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 15:10
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:
Will you please stop confusing "Club" with "League".
The NFL is a league, the Washington Redskins are a "team" or "club" that play in the NFL.
Right. My bad. VYS is a club with multiple individual teams in various age groups. It is also an administration. Sorry for the misuse of terms.
Let me try to be clearer by restating: VYS administration seems to be highly insular and slow to respond to problems. I don't know who any of the board members are, but they leave the impression that they're either not competent or they're not nice folks - and you can see that in the chaos they create: Players, coaches and high-level employees leaving in droves. When the VYS administration does respond to problems, many parents seem to think they're vindictive. And that's not a one-off. LOTS of parents are afraid to speak up bc they're afraid their kid will suffer for it. NICE. REALLY NICE.
Put it this way: Why else would VYS have experienced such a player and employee talent drain in the last 3 years? Because the parents and employees aren't buying what VYS is selling and they're voting with their feet and wallets. Count us in that bunch. My posting here is intended to help another newcomer to Vienna avoid the last two years we've had by informing them of the myriad, seemingly intractable problems at VYS.
As for our particular experiences: One particular VYS house-level age group had a long-standing non-parent coach whom everyone who had passed through that age group knew by the nickname "Creepy (first name)". VYS did nothing about it for an extended period of time and a plethora of actual-parent alternatives. Go ahead, explain that. I'll wait.
VYS travel had a different age-level coach who was autistic, at best (because it would mean he had a genuine medical issue, instead of just being an exquisite piece-of-work). VYS administration would never have done anything about the OBVIOUS PROBLEM had certain parents (through leaving and threatening to leave) not forced the issue. I can't speak for every parent on that team, but the consensus is (among the parents I've talked to) that this last year was a completely wasted year. The skill level on the team is WORSE than in the Fall. The players are LESS enthusiastic about playing and they're not enjoying the soccer experience at VYS. So, like others have suggested, we won't be back. Frankly, if VYS had offered even a partial refund, we would have left in November.
Either way, these are issues that no one wants to experience in house level or travel level soccer.
That said, we have met some good people who are associated with VYS. Some are volunteer parents, some are paid "professional" coaches. It seems to us that VYS administration is hindering these good folks through poor leadership and bad management decisions.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 14:50
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: (FWIW, Freedom Hill Elementary's U-10 fields are downright dangerous.)
Really? Believe it or not, people once played on grass before the affluent suburbs decided to turf everything. Most of us didn't play on a field as nice as Freedom Hill until high school or college. And most of the best players in the world learned the game in the streets or sandlots with a ball of tape serving as the ball.
Our standards in this area are a bit much. Trust me, poor little Johnny will be just fine if he doesn't practice on perfectly groomed turf fields maintained to the same standards of FedEx Field. Dare I suggest that he might even develop better as a result.
That's why I said the U-10 field. You know, the one out front by the street wedged between trees and the parking lot....not the nice grass field out back of the school. The field up front was deeply rutted and dried with huge tire track imprints all over the field. Overall, the fields are good. The point of relating that, is that VYS seems to be losing out on well-lit turf fields like the Jones Branch location because their turnover is so horrendous. Which, is a symptom of poor leadership.
In other words ... one field. OK.
Where do you get the "losing out on Jones Branch" rumor? Granted, the turnover in the fields position has been a very bad thing in general.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 14:32
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: (FWIW, Freedom Hill Elementary's U-10 fields are downright dangerous.)
Really? Believe it or not, people once played on grass before the affluent suburbs decided to turf everything. Most of us didn't play on a field as nice as Freedom Hill until high school or college. And most of the best players in the world learned the game in the streets or sandlots with a ball of tape serving as the ball.
Our standards in this area are a bit much. Trust me, poor little Johnny will be just fine if he doesn't practice on perfectly groomed turf fields maintained to the same standards of FedEx Field. Dare I suggest that he might even develop better as a result.
That's why I said the U-10 field. You know, the one out front by the street wedged between trees and the parking lot....not the nice grass field out back of the school. The field up front was deeply rutted and dried with huge tire track imprints all over the field. Overall, the fields are good. The point of relating that, is that VYS seems to be losing out on well-lit turf fields like the Jones Branch location because their turnover is so horrendous. Which, is a symptom of poor leadership.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 13:56
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: (FWIW, Freedom Hill Elementary's U-10 fields are downright dangerous.)
Really? Believe it or not, people once played on grass before the affluent suburbs decided to turf everything. Most of us didn't play on a field as nice as Freedom Hill until high school or college. And most of the best players in the world learned the game in the streets or sandlots with a ball of tape serving as the ball.
Our standards in this area are a bit much. Trust me, poor little Johnny will be just fine if he doesn't practice on perfectly groomed turf fields maintained to the same standards of FedEx Field. Dare I suggest that he might even develop better as a result.
Eddie Lima once showed a picture of himself as a youth player in Brazil. Random mix of dirt and grass.
Field space is a tough issue in this county. Lots of sports, not much land. It'd be great if we could build our own Maryland SoccerPlex, but where would you put it?
I coached a tournament at Lake Fairfax Park once. Those fields were folded down one side like fancy moulding. The parents could only see the coaches' heads.
Not sure what to make of the rest of those complaints. I've been pleasantly surprised at the travel coaches they attracted even during Gunney's reign of error. In House, most age groups are begging for parent volunteers. That situation being described there sounds horrible, but you'd have to say it's an aberration.
And no, you can't look at "game after game" and see VYS teams destroyed. They've got State Cup-winning girls and a few decent boys teams. The U9 and U10 boys got crushed in the U8 "crossover" program, but now that they're competing on the same terms as other clubs, they're doing quite well.
VPL? Yes. Some teams, mostly on the boys side, can't keep up. That's one of several legitimate issues in VYS right now.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 13:00
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:There is so much wrong with VYS, it's a daunting task to even start. But, I'll boil the problems down to two areas:
1. The attitude of VYS's management, at the house and travel levels, is driving away parents and players. The management is more concerned with telling parents and kids what to do than they are in delivering a fun, educational experience for kids. From our immediate experience, VYS is not a service oriented outfit - they are an obedience-oriented outfit.
Example 1: At the house level we had one "parent" coach who hadn't had kids in the league in over a decade. This coach was known as "Creepy (insert name here)." In that instance (before we pulled out kid out of the team) we literally had parents begging VYS to let them coach, but the league persisted in keeping Coach Creepy. We later learned that it wasn't just our team who referred to this coach as Coach Creepy - it was the entire age-group. It should not take a league long to react when an entire age group of parents is referring to a particular coach as "Coach Creepy." After that year, we pulled our daughter out of VYS and we're happily playing in Chantilly's travel program. Which is less expensive, friendlier and has FAR better coaching.
Example 2: We had a travel coach was ABYSMALLY bad on an interpersonal and technical skill level. He was so arrogant and condescending, it was shocking. Our kid came home from practice asking to drop out of travel because, "the way coach talks to the team makes everyone feel stupid." After two months of observing practices, I spoke with the ATD and raised countless examples of the coach alienating players, treating them harshly, and actively insulting and/or discouraging young players. Nothing changed. Then, after one family left mid-season and we threatened to leave, the league FINALLY replaced this coach. We only later found out that this particular coach had a lengthy track record of being run-out of coaching positions across the country. Apparently, VYS' reputation is such that they can't attract enough good coaches and are forced to settle for cast-offs. Oh, to add to the story, once the coach was replaced EVERY SINGLE PARENT on the team thanked me for raising the issue. Yet, when I asked why they didn't raise it, they all indicated that they didn't want the league to punish them for speaking up. Apparently, VYS management has a reputation for being vindictive - taking retribution on players to "teach parents to stay in line." How about that? Nice.
2. There's a vicious cycle between VYS' mismanagement (See #1), which is driving away parents and kids that the league apparently can't attract and retain good coaches. As a result the overall quality of coaching (and resulting play) has suffered - tremendously. All you have to do is attend ANY VYS game. VYS players are rarely "first to the ball." They're hesitant and they're ball control is nowhere near the level of their opponents. Their overall "soccer intelligence" is far below that of neighboring clubs. Seriously, go look at the results. More often than not VYS teams are not just beaten, they're destroyed. Like 8-0, 10-1 or worse. And it's not just one game. It's game after game, season after season. I don't expect to "win every game", but it would be nice to at least be developing the skills that would allow players to be in the same competitive range. Which is NOT happening.
Finally, it's not just that VYS is not responsive to parents or that they're travel-level coaching is well below average. VYS consistently puts house and travel kids on poor-quality fields. (FWIW, Freedom Hill Elementary's U-10 fields are downright dangerous.) They are losing good practice facilities like Jones Branch because they can't get their administrative act together. The league spends a ridiculous amount of time on nonsense like promoting the "anti-concussion partnership" with a local hospital. Mention it once or twice: fine. Develop an SOP for coaches to deal with potential concussions: fine. Spend countless hours promoting and marketing an expensive and unnecessary pre-screening process that is more like free marketing for the hospital than anything else: Count me out.
In the end, we removed one child from VYS and the results were great. We'll be removing our other child as soon as this season is over and we won't be back. I would HIGHLY discourage parents - especially at the travel level - to go elsewhere. VYS needs to completely clean house at the senior-most levels and start charting and implementing a credible path to recovery.
Will you please stop confusing "Club" with "League".
The NFL is a league, the Washington Redskins are a "team" or "club" that play in the NFL.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 12:53
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote: (FWIW, Freedom Hill Elementary's U-10 fields are downright dangerous.)
Really? Believe it or not, people once played on grass before the affluent suburbs decided to turf everything. Most of us didn't play on a field as nice as Freedom Hill until high school or college. And most of the best players in the world learned the game in the streets or sandlots with a ball of tape serving as the ball.
Our standards in this area are a bit much. Trust me, poor little Johnny will be just fine if he doesn't practice on perfectly groomed turf fields maintained to the same standards of FedEx Field. Dare I suggest that he might even develop better as a result.
Anonymous
05/10/2016 12:06
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
There is so much wrong with VYS, it's a daunting task to even start. But, I'll boil the problems down to two areas:
1. The attitude of VYS's management, at the house and travel levels, is driving away parents and players. The management is more concerned with telling parents and kids what to do than they are in delivering a fun, educational experience for kids. From our immediate experience, VYS is not a service oriented outfit - they are an obedience-oriented outfit.
Example 1: At the house level we had one "parent" coach who hadn't had kids in the league in over a decade. This coach was known as "Creepy (insert name here)." In that instance (before we pulled out kid out of the team) we literally had parents begging VYS to let them coach, but the league persisted in keeping Coach Creepy. We later learned that it wasn't just our team who referred to this coach as Coach Creepy - it was the entire age-group. It should not take a league long to react when an entire age group of parents is referring to a particular coach as "Coach Creepy." After that year, we pulled our daughter out of VYS and we're happily playing in Chantilly's travel program. Which is less expensive, friendlier and has FAR better coaching.
Example 2: We had a travel coach was ABYSMALLY bad on an interpersonal and technical skill level. He was so arrogant and condescending, it was shocking. Our kid came home from practice asking to drop out of travel because, "the way coach talks to the team makes everyone feel stupid." After two months of observing practices, I spoke with the ATD and raised countless examples of the coach alienating players, treating them harshly, and actively insulting and/or discouraging young players. Nothing changed. Then, after one family left mid-season and we threatened to leave, the league FINALLY replaced this coach. We only later found out that this particular coach had a lengthy track record of being run-out of coaching positions across the country. Apparently, VYS' reputation is such that they can't attract enough good coaches and are forced to settle for cast-offs. Oh, to add to the story, once the coach was replaced EVERY SINGLE PARENT on the team thanked me for raising the issue. Yet, when I asked why they didn't raise it, they all indicated that they didn't want the league to punish them for speaking up. Apparently, VYS management has a reputation for being vindictive - taking retribution on players to "teach parents to stay in line." How about that? Nice.
2. There's a vicious cycle between VYS' mismanagement (See #1), which is driving away parents and kids that the league apparently can't attract and retain good coaches. As a result the overall quality of coaching (and resulting play) has suffered - tremendously. All you have to do is attend ANY VYS game. VYS players are rarely "first to the ball." They're hesitant and they're ball control is nowhere near the level of their opponents. Their overall "soccer intelligence" is far below that of neighboring clubs. Seriously, go look at the results. More often than not VYS teams are not just beaten, they're destroyed. Like 8-0, 10-1 or worse. And it's not just one game. It's game after game, season after season. I don't expect to "win every game", but it would be nice to at least be developing the skills that would allow players to be in the same competitive range. Which is NOT happening.
Finally, it's not just that VYS is not responsive to parents or that they're travel-level coaching is well below average. VYS consistently puts house and travel kids on poor-quality fields. (FWIW, Freedom Hill Elementary's U-10 fields are downright dangerous.) They are losing good practice facilities like Jones Branch because they can't get their administrative act together. The league spends a ridiculous amount of time on nonsense like promoting the "anti-concussion partnership" with a local hospital. Mention it once or twice: fine. Develop an SOP for coaches to deal with potential concussions: fine. Spend countless hours promoting and marketing an expensive and unnecessary pre-screening process that is more like free marketing for the hospital than anything else: Count me out.
In the end, we removed one child from VYS and the results were great. We'll be removing our other child as soon as this season is over and we won't be back. I would HIGHLY discourage parents - especially at the travel level - to go elsewhere. VYS needs to completely clean house at the senior-most levels and start charting and implementing a credible path to recovery.
1. The attitude of VYS's management, at the house and travel levels, is driving away parents and players. The management is more concerned with telling parents and kids what to do than they are in delivering a fun, educational experience for kids. From our immediate experience, VYS is not a service oriented outfit - they are an obedience-oriented outfit.
Example 1: At the house level we had one "parent" coach who hadn't had kids in the league in over a decade. This coach was known as "Creepy (insert name here)." In that instance (before we pulled out kid out of the team) we literally had parents begging VYS to let them coach, but the league persisted in keeping Coach Creepy. We later learned that it wasn't just our team who referred to this coach as Coach Creepy - it was the entire age-group. It should not take a league long to react when an entire age group of parents is referring to a particular coach as "Coach Creepy." After that year, we pulled our daughter out of VYS and we're happily playing in Chantilly's travel program. Which is less expensive, friendlier and has FAR better coaching.
Example 2: We had a travel coach was ABYSMALLY bad on an interpersonal and technical skill level. He was so arrogant and condescending, it was shocking. Our kid came home from practice asking to drop out of travel because, "the way coach talks to the team makes everyone feel stupid." After two months of observing practices, I spoke with the ATD and raised countless examples of the coach alienating players, treating them harshly, and actively insulting and/or discouraging young players. Nothing changed. Then, after one family left mid-season and we threatened to leave, the league FINALLY replaced this coach. We only later found out that this particular coach had a lengthy track record of being run-out of coaching positions across the country. Apparently, VYS' reputation is such that they can't attract enough good coaches and are forced to settle for cast-offs. Oh, to add to the story, once the coach was replaced EVERY SINGLE PARENT on the team thanked me for raising the issue. Yet, when I asked why they didn't raise it, they all indicated that they didn't want the league to punish them for speaking up. Apparently, VYS management has a reputation for being vindictive - taking retribution on players to "teach parents to stay in line." How about that? Nice.
2. There's a vicious cycle between VYS' mismanagement (See #1), which is driving away parents and kids that the league apparently can't attract and retain good coaches. As a result the overall quality of coaching (and resulting play) has suffered - tremendously. All you have to do is attend ANY VYS game. VYS players are rarely "first to the ball." They're hesitant and they're ball control is nowhere near the level of their opponents. Their overall "soccer intelligence" is far below that of neighboring clubs. Seriously, go look at the results. More often than not VYS teams are not just beaten, they're destroyed. Like 8-0, 10-1 or worse. And it's not just one game. It's game after game, season after season. I don't expect to "win every game", but it would be nice to at least be developing the skills that would allow players to be in the same competitive range. Which is NOT happening.
Finally, it's not just that VYS is not responsive to parents or that they're travel-level coaching is well below average. VYS consistently puts house and travel kids on poor-quality fields. (FWIW, Freedom Hill Elementary's U-10 fields are downright dangerous.) They are losing good practice facilities like Jones Branch because they can't get their administrative act together. The league spends a ridiculous amount of time on nonsense like promoting the "anti-concussion partnership" with a local hospital. Mention it once or twice: fine. Develop an SOP for coaches to deal with potential concussions: fine. Spend countless hours promoting and marketing an expensive and unnecessary pre-screening process that is more like free marketing for the hospital than anything else: Count me out.
In the end, we removed one child from VYS and the results were great. We'll be removing our other child as soon as this season is over and we won't be back. I would HIGHLY discourage parents - especially at the travel level - to go elsewhere. VYS needs to completely clean house at the senior-most levels and start charting and implementing a credible path to recovery.
Anonymous
05/06/2016 16:41
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote: Hey, McLean had two TDs until Krieger left.
Look how well that worked out.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 22:13
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
I think the idea is that Gunney spent months creating a comprehensive training curriculum that the assistant TDs will now continue to implement. Maybe, though, they would consider not using the term "sessions" to refer to practices.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 17:25
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:The thought process is that the assistant TDs are doing well enough and don't need oversight beyond that.
Wow, I did not read the club's e-mail message that way. If that is the thought process, it would be another big mistake IMO. They have to watch listening too closely to the assistant TDs. Makes sense that the assistant TDs would not want a new TD since that would likely put them out of jobs. The new TD would likely bring in his own group of guys. We need someone to set an overall vision / game plan which we do not have right now.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 17:08
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:The thought process is that the assistant TDs are doing well enough and don't need oversight beyond that.
Every club needs a TD. You don't want all the assistant TDs outlining different philosophies and styles, taking different approaches to curriculum, or doing different things with respect to club-wide decisions beyond their areas of focus. Someone needs to set direction/tone/philosophy from top down, make decisions for club as a whole, and represent club internally and externally with one voice.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 16:55
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:And to answer one post above -- I don't know that it means abandoning ambition. Hank Leung might work better *without* a TD who knows little about the region. They've got two U17 girls teams playing Region 1 Champions League -- one "elite", one "premier" -- and a reasonable ambition might be to have a couple of teams like that every once in a while.
They really haven't made any serious efforts to be a Bethesda or a McLean. Still very much a community club.
Thanks. My assumption had been that the Gunney hire was done with the idea of turning the club into a Bethesda or McLean. I didn't mean to suggest that VYS doesn't have any elite teams.