Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I've said before, the unknown is what scares me the most and that's why I color within the lines. I don't think I'll miss anything by doing that.

Then it sounds like you just want to remain religious, despite your doubts. That's fine. Tons of people do that. But there's no reason why you have to be so flummoxed by atheism. You sound like you just want to believe. Many others aren't as scared of "the unknown" as you are, so they don't feel as driven to belief in God. No big whoop. People are different.

Yes, people are different, but until recently, they were supposed to think the same way about god -- they were supposed to believe in him and were ostracized or even murdered if they did not -- so you can bet that people who were "different" a few centuries ago, just kept quiet about it.

Luckily, that is slowly changing - now more rapidly with the internet. Now religious people are facing the possibility that what they were taught as small children or what they naturally feel is not accepted by everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Behind every creation is a creator. Anyone that doesn't see that is truly lost.

Hmmm, I don't believe that and I don't seem to be lost. You kind of are just saying "it's true because I believe it, and anyone who doesn't believe it is lost", which is silly.

Religious people are used to hearing pronouncements in church so it seems natural to make them themselves. Saying something with conviction doesn't make it true, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, these atheists here claim to be good humanists for the sake of personal codes, but can't stand other people unless they are the right kind of people. Funny.

All of the atheists here say they can't stand believers? Please quote it.

It's not there. The anti-atheists say this so they can justify being hateful and feeling superior to atheists.

Or maybe it provides an excuse to ignore atheists -- because they're concerned that paying attention could be dangerous to their faith - and they'd lose out on the promise of an eternal life.

Anonymous wrote:I almost "could" get atheism, but not the brand of it that is often championed here.

Don't let personalities get in the way of what makes sense. Just because a few atheists are unsavory characters doesn't mean atheism is wrong.Think of all the Christians who are nasty -- that doesn't change the tenets of their religion. Look at the facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheism is about choosing spirituality over than religion and dogma. The Atheists I know are more humane and without prejudice than religious people. They judge people by their deeds not their religious beliefs.

I don't know, I am pretty suspicious of a religious person - here's someone who has surrendered their critical faculties and believe in magic and fairy tales. In any other context such a person would be regarded as insane. Sure Christians are mostly are nice about it now, but they weren't nice about it in the past, and what's to guarantee that their dogma won't be twisted for violent and oppressive purposes again in the future. For as long I continue to be subject to the effects of other people's religious beliefs, as they continue to refuse to leave me alone, I will continue to speak out against religious beliefs and hopefully get more people to reconsider their faith and belief on insufficient evidence.

McLeanAtheist

I think you're overlooking the entire point of having faith. I'm not distrustful of all religious people, solely because they're not all the same.

-another atheist

They don't all believe in a God/higher-power on insufficient evidence? How are they different in this regard?

I understand your point about faith, but must carefully define the faith we are referring to because it would be wrong to conflate them. I have faith in my fellow man, for example. I get up in the morning and walk out not expecting to be murdered as soon as I see someone because of this faith. The unthinkable may happen, there's a chance it will, but I have faith that it wont even though I am not sure. This is faith about certain outcomes based on empirical outcomes even though we are not 100% certain. But religious faith is quite different - it is incorrect stone age assumptions made about the state and cause of our material world that arose out of ignorance and our natural yearning to find reason.

McLeanAtheist

I get what you're saying. They feel they have enough evidence to believe there is a god. Some say it's something they feel or see proof simply in our existence. I think it's foolish to disregard them as untrustworthy. I do charity work through faith-based groups. They're more caring and far more efficient that county run organizations. They believe in their mission and it shows. Some aren't as trustworthy, which they will reveal fairly quickly.

Please do not stereotype believers. It makes the rest of us look bad.

Point taken. Thanks for the conversation.

McLeanAtheist

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheism is about choosing spirituality over than religion and dogma. The Atheists I know are more humane and without prejudice than religious people. They judge people by their deeds not their religious beliefs.

I don't know, I am pretty suspicious of a religious person - here's someone who has surrendered their critical faculties and believe in magic and fairy tales. In any other context such a person would be regarded as insane. Sure Christians are mostly are nice about it now, but they weren't nice about it in the past, and what's to guarantee that their dogma won't be twisted for violent and oppressive purposes again in the future. For as long I continue to be subject to the effects of other people's religious beliefs, as they continue to refuse to leave me alone, I will continue to speak out against religious beliefs and hopefully get more people to reconsider their faith and belief on insufficient evidence.

McLeanAtheist

I think you're overlooking the entire point of having faith. I'm not distrustful of all religious people, solely because they're not all the same.

-another atheist

They don't all believe in a God/higher-power on insufficient evidence? How are they different in this regard?

I understand your point about faith, but must carefully define the faith we are referring to because it would be wrong to conflate them. I have faith in my fellow man, for example. I get up in the morning and walk out not expecting to be murdered as soon as I see someone because of this faith. The unthinkable may happen, there's a chance it will, but I have faith that it wont even though I am not sure. This is faith about certain outcomes based on empirical outcomes even though we are not 100% certain. But religious faith is quite different - it is incorrect stone age assumptions made about the state and cause of our material world that arose out of ignorance and our natural yearning to find reason.

McLeanAtheist

I get what you're saying. They feel they have enough evidence to believe there is a god. Some say it's something they feel or see proof simply in our existence. I think it's foolish to disregard them as untrustworthy. I do charity work through faith-based groups. They're more caring and far more efficient that county run organizations. They believe in their mission and it shows. Some aren't as trustworthy, which they will reveal fairly quickly.

Please do not stereotype believers. It makes the rest of us look bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheism is about choosing spirituality over than religion and dogma. The Atheists I know are more humane and without prejudice than religious people. They judge people by their deeds not their religious beliefs.

I don't know, I am pretty suspicious of a religious person - here's someone who has surrendered their critical faculties and believe in magic and fairy tales. In any other context such a person would be regarded as insane. Sure Christians are mostly are nice about it now, but they weren't nice about it in the past, and what's to guarantee that their dogma won't be twisted for violent and oppressive purposes again in the future. For as long I continue to be subject to the effects of other people's religious beliefs, as they continue to refuse to leave me alone, I will continue to speak out against religious beliefs and hopefully get more people to reconsider their faith and belief on insufficient evidence.

McLeanAtheist

I think you're overlooking the entire point of having faith. I'm not distrustful of all religious people, solely because they're not all the same.

-another atheist

They don't all believe in a God/higher-power on insufficient evidence? How are they different in this regard?

I understand your point about faith, but must carefully define the faith we are referring to because it would be wrong to conflate them. I have faith in my fellow man, for example. I get up in the morning and walk out not expecting to be murdered as soon as I see someone because of this faith. The unthinkable may happen, there's a chance it will, but I have faith that it wont even though I am not sure. This is faith about certain outcomes based on empirical outcomes even though we are not 100% certain. But religious faith is quite different - it is incorrect stone age assumptions made about the state and cause of our material world that arose out of ignorance and our natural yearning to find reason.

McLeanAtheist

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am with you on not getting atheism.
I think many of these atheists have never witnessed the miracle of birth.
People talk about the “randomness of the universe.”
It is not random at all.
The fact that so many, many things can go wrong with the birth of a child and most often, a baby is born nearly perfect proves to me that God’s hand is at work and that we have a good and loving God.
And, to think that a giant maple tree can grow out of a seed that is the size of a pea - simply miraculous.
I have witnessed miracles nearly every day.
There are some things that we simply cannot understand or explain through science.

I know that this is an old thread, but man is this funny! PICK UP A BOOK!!! You actually CAN explain those things through science. Wowza, I feel sorry for your children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheism is about choosing spirituality over than religion and dogma. The Atheists I know are more humane and without prejudice than religious people. They judge people by their deeds not their religious beliefs.

I don't know, I am pretty suspicious of a religious person - here's someone who has surrendered their critical faculties and believe in magic and fairy tales. In any other context such a person would be regarded as insane. Sure Christians are mostly are nice about it now, but they weren't nice about it in the past, and what's to guarantee that their dogma won't be twisted for violent and oppressive purposes again in the future. For as long I continue to be subject to the effects of other people's religious beliefs, as they continue to refuse to leave me alone, I will continue to speak out against religious beliefs and hopefully get more people to reconsider their faith and belief on insufficient evidence.

McLeanAtheist

I think you're overlooking the entire point of having faith. I'm not distrustful of all religious people, solely because they're not all the same.

-another atheist

thank. you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheism is about choosing spirituality over than religion and dogma. The Atheists I know are more humane and without prejudice than religious people. They judge people by their deeds not their religious beliefs.

I don't know, I am pretty suspicious of a religious person - here's someone who has surrendered their critical faculties and believe in magic and fairy tales. In any other context such a person would be regarded as insane. Sure Christians are mostly are nice about it now, but they weren't nice about it in the past, and what's to guarantee that their dogma won't be twisted for violent and oppressive purposes again in the future. For as long I continue to be subject to the effects of other people's religious beliefs, as they continue to refuse to leave me alone, I will continue to speak out against religious beliefs and hopefully get more people to reconsider their faith and belief on insufficient evidence.

McLeanAtheist

I think you're overlooking the entire point of having faith. I'm not distrustful of all religious people, solely because they're not all the same.

-another atheist

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to get all crazy with science, but men make sperm everyday. It isn't a miracle. It's a biological process.

Yes, but Who made the men? Who created the process? If your statement demonstrate the depths that atheist are allowed to wonder, it is extremely shallow indeed.

To quote a humorous video I once saw: "my parents had sex.... their parents had sex... and their parents had sex... etc"

Life on earth has been a continuous progression, there wasn't an instance in history where you could go back and say "now here, this is the first modern man". Humans have a need to put labels on things to identify them, it's how our mind works, to consolidate a basket of information down to one concept for ease of reference. A species is defined as the ability to breed and have off spring. At any point in the evolution of animal that would give rise to modern man, you could take that animal, and have it breed with the animal that precedes it or follows it by 100 years. What about 200 years, 500 years, 5000 years? Say a break happened at 10,000 years. But the animal at the 5000 year mark could breed with both the first animal, and the animal at 10,000 years. The point is, just because humans identified and labeled certain points of the human evolution with the name of a species, we must not forget that it was a progression, and not a sudden emergence. This progression extends from modern man, back in time to our split with other primate species, to our split with other mammals, etc, all the way to the very beginning.

This process is a physical, chemical, and biological one, arising naturally out of the earthly environment. Earth has its environment due to its elemental composition, and its proximity to the start it orbits. Elements of the earth were created from nuclear reactions that are the part of the birth/death of stars like our sun.

If you want to go back further, to the beginning of the universe 13 billion years ago, well, these are questions that scientists are working to answer. Even though we don't have the answer, what's reasonably clear to us, is that there is no simple answer, and there is no sign of a supernatural creator, nor any observable purpose/reason/cause.

Anonymous wrote:Atheism is about choosing spirituality over than religion and dogma. The Atheists I know are more humane and without prejudice than religious people. They judge people by their deeds not their religious beliefs.

I don't know, I am pretty suspicious of a religious person - here's someone who has surrendered their critical faculties and believe in magic and fairy tales. In any other context such a person would be regarded as insane. Sure Christians are mostly are nice about it now, but they weren't nice about it in the past, and what's to guarantee that their dogma won't be twisted for violent and oppressive purposes again in the future. For as long I continue to be subject to the effects of other people's religious beliefs, as they continue to refuse to leave me alone, I will continue to speak out against religious beliefs and hopefully get more people to reconsider their faith and belief on insufficient evidence.

McLeanAtheist

Anonymous wrote:The thing I find strange about non-believers (atheism) is the same strange thing I find about believers (religious). Both actually believe in something without proof. Atheist believe God or a higher power does not exist but they can not prove it. Religious types believe a God or higher power does exist and also can not prove it.

For me personally, I'm agnostic. Is there a God or higher power? I don't know. But if I had to choose which (atheisim or Religon) is more logically based, I'd have to go with atheism. A leap of faith is just that.

How did I not notice this thread has been revived for the past couple of days. In the interest of keeping arguments straight, I'll name myself, McLeanAtheist.

Your characterization of atheism is wrong. Atheism is simply not-theism, as in we don't have a belief in a God or a higher power. Some times, I acknowledge, people equate the lack of belief in something to be the same as believing in the non-existence of something, but this is a mistake on the position of atheism, a mistake you've just made.

In so far as it is impossible to prove that God doesn't exist, there is no atheist out there that can make that claim with absolute certainty. If you find such an atheist, he likely misspoke or is confused. We are as sure that God doesn't exist, as we are sure that Zeus doesn't exist, or that Santa Claus as described by popular culture, doesn't exist. No we can't be certain that they don't exist, but we live our lives as if they don't, because we see no good evidence to suggest that they do exist. So when Christmas comes, I buy the gifts for my family and loved ones, just as I am sure many religious people do.

McLeanAtheist

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I've said before, the unknown is what scares me the most and that's why I color within the lines. I don't think I'll miss anything by doing that.

Then it sounds like you just want to remain religious, despite your doubts. That's fine. Tons of people do that. But there's no reason why you have to be so flummoxed by atheism. You sound like you just want to believe. Many others aren't as scared of "the unknown" as you are, so they don't feel as driven to belief in God. No big whoop. People are different.

Funny that people still make the Pascal's Wager argument. Are there people still living in the 21st century unaware that other religions exist?

Anonymous wrote:As I've said before, the unknown is what scares me the most and that's why I color within the lines. I don't think I'll miss anything by doing that.

Then it sounds like you just want to remain religious, despite your doubts. That's fine. Tons of people do that. But there's no reason why you have to be so flummoxed by atheism. You sound like you just want to believe. Many others aren't as scared of "the unknown" as you are, so they don't feel as driven to belief in God. No big whoop. People are different.