Anonymous
03/16/2014 20:37
Subject: Re:DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
I thought the discussin was about high SES AA families avoiding Wilson, not low SES schools.
There's a double-edge sword when you're educated, well off, but black on the nice side of town. The prejudice comes from two directions.
There's a double-edge sword when you're educated, well off, but black on the nice side of town. The prejudice comes from two directions.
Anonymous
03/16/2014 19:41
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Myopia runs both ways, PP. A smart white kid in a predominantly AA low-SES school will be bullied, bothered and ostracized. It's never good for a child to have not one friend at school regardless of color. Some of us white folks had hippy-dippy parents and had to endure this and will never do it to our children.
Anonymous
03/16/2014 19:09
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:
This is a very important point. I know several AA parents from Ward 3 who would not consider sending their kids to Wilson. All send their kids to St. Johns. They don't want their kids exposed to low SES AA kids is how they explained it.
If true, that is a troubling attitude. No better than white families who are afraid of exposing their children to low SES AA kids.
I find it troubling that white liberals don't understand it. Even now. Come on folks, try to step out of your culture and myopia for a minute. It is not driven by the same motive as white families who are afraid of exposing their children to low SES AA kids. I know some parents who would not send their kids to Latin and BASIS for the same reasons.
It actually is a completely different thing. Black kids who do well in a school where there are a lot of black under performing kids are harassed, accused of "acting white" etc etc. This is not what low SES AA kids do to white kids. They may pick on them a bit, but they don't accuse them of being traitors and the amount of venom is just not similar.
We live in Ward 3.
My husband grew up in bad parts of NYC, which he will not take us to, and he will never send our kids to Wilson because of the same issues in the Latino community. Our kids can discover their roots in college, but first they have to get there, without being threatened by a bunch of other Latino kids because they are doing well academically.
I used to think of this as "crabs in a barrel" that the kids who are not succeeding don't want others to succeed, but it is much more complicated, runs deeper, and is more dangerous. I don't know about gang activity at Wilson. But we would stay away from any school with a large population of Latino FARMS kids.
The chances of a white kid falling in with a "bad white crowd" is more likely at private school probably than at Wilson. But by "bad white crowd" you mean over privileged rich kids who drink and smoke pot not kids who deal drugs and carry weapons whose lifestyle might seem dangerous and intriguing to a higher SES AA or Latino teen. There is a difference between a bunch of white kids going slumming and my child stepping over one of these lines because the lines are more blurry and the consequences could be deadly. I don't mean to exaggerate, but I am completely serious about this and higher SES AA parents I think have the same concerns.
It is completely different from the fears that white people have about lower SES AA and Latino kids, and it is just too dangerous to risk.
Very well said, PP. I was that AA kid who was harassed because I was "too white." I didn't fit in with the white kids and didn't fit in with the black kids because I wasn't "black enough." But like you said, it was vicious how I was treated by black kids - they'd say I thought I was "too good" for them so I was a daily target and made to feel like I wasn't wanted there. Lots of bullying and black kids threatening to fight me. The white kids I knew didn't deal with half the stuff I did.
Which is why I too worry about sending my AA kid to a low-SES school. I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone - especially my kid. I've been taking her to some local playgrounds where there are low-SES kids and I see my horrible childhood experience all over again. It's not just the kids, but the parents too.
For those who don't know, an AA in a low-SES school is much, much different than the experience of a white kid in a low-SES school. Those of us who have been there try hard to star FAR AWAY!
BTW... I used to be all for my neighborhood school and helping out the community. But now that I have to make decisions about my child... it's impossible to agree to put him in a school where I know full well he is likely to experience a very tough road. If you are that parent, great for you. Me... no, won't do it.
Very well said, PP. I was that AA kid who was harassed because I was "too white." I didn't fit in with the white kids and didn't fit in with the black kids because I wasn't "black enough." But like you said, it was vicious how I was treated by black kids - they'd say I thought I was "too good" for them so I was a daily target and made to feel like I wasn't wanted there. Lots of bullying and black kids threatening to fight me. The white kids I knew didn't deal with half the stuff I did.
Which is why I too worry about sending my AA kid to a low-SES school. I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone - especially my kid. I've been taking her to some local playgrounds where there are low-SES kids and I see my horrible childhood experience all over again. It's not just the kids, but the parents too.
For those who don't know, an AA in a low-SES school is much, much different than the experience of a white kid in a low-SES school. Those of us who have been there try hard to star FAR AWAY!
BTW... I used to be all for my neighborhood school and helping out the community. But now that I have to make decisions about my child... it's impossible to agree to put him in a school where I know full well he is likely to experience a very tough road. If you are that parent, great for you. Me... no, won't do it.
Anonymous
03/16/2014 19:09
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:
This is a very important point. I know several AA parents from Ward 3 who would not consider sending their kids to Wilson. All send their kids to St. Johns. They don't want their kids exposed to low SES AA kids is how they explained it.
If true, that is a troubling attitude. No better than white families who are afraid of exposing their children to low SES AA kids.
I find it troubling that white liberals don't understand it. Even now. Come on folks, try to step out of your culture and myopia for a minute. It is not driven by the same motive as white families who are afraid of exposing their children to low SES AA kids. I know some parents who would not send their kids to Latin and BASIS for the same reasons.
It actually is a completely different thing. Black kids who do well in a school where there are a lot of black under performing kids are harassed, accused of "acting white" etc etc. This is not what low SES AA kids do to white kids. They may pick on them a bit, but they don't accuse them of being traitors and the amount of venom is just not similar.
We live in Ward 3.
My husband grew up in bad parts of NYC, which he will not take us to, and he will never send our kids to Wilson because of the same issues in the Latino community. Our kids can discover their roots in college, but first they have to get there, without being threatened by a bunch of other Latino kids because they are doing well academically.
I used to think of this as "crabs in a barrel" that the kids who are not succeeding don't want others to succeed, but it is much more complicated, runs deeper, and is more dangerous. I don't know about gang activity at Wilson. But we would stay away from any school with a large population of Latino FARMS kids.
The chances of a white kid falling in with a "bad white crowd" is more likely at private school probably than at Wilson. But by "bad white crowd" you mean over privileged rich kids who drink and smoke pot not kids who deal drugs and carry weapons whose lifestyle might seem dangerous and intriguing to a higher SES AA or Latino teen. There is a difference between a bunch of white kids going slumming and my child stepping over one of these lines because the lines are more blurry and the consequences could be deadly. I don't mean to exaggerate, but I am completely serious about this and higher SES AA parents I think have the same concerns.
It is completely different from the fears that white people have about lower SES AA and Latino kids, and it is just too dangerous to risk.
Very well said, PP. I was that AA kid who was harassed because I was "too white." I didn't fit in with the white kids and didn't fit in with the black kids because I wasn't "black enough." But like you said, it was vicious how I was treated by black kids - they'd say I thought I was "too good" for them so I was a daily target and made to feel like I wasn't wanted there. Lots of bullying and black kids threatening to fight me. The white kids I knew didn't deal with half the stuff I did.
Which is why I too worry about sending my AA kid to a low-SES school. I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone - especially my kid. I've been taking her to some local playgrounds where there are low-SES kids and I see my horrible childhood experience all over again. It's not just the kids, but the parents too.
For those who don't know, an AA in a low-SES school is much, much different than the experience of a white kid in a low-SES school. Those of us who have been there try hard to star FAR AWAY!
BTW... I used to be all for my neighborhood school and helping out the community. But now that I have to make decisions about my child... it's impossible to agree to put him in a school where I know full well he is likely to experience a very tough road. If you are that parent, great for you. Me... no, won't do it.
Anonymous
03/16/2014 16:47
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Anonymous wrote:Is there a proposed map of what the changes might look like in NW DC?
The committee is supposed to issue several scenarios for comment next month. You can sign up for one of various working groups to give your input on them.
http://dme.dc.gov/book/student-assignment-and-school-boundaries-review-process/getting-involved-and-timeline
In the meantime, the DME and others are making presentations about the committee's work and answering questions about the process so far. Last Wednesday, she spoke at Deal and before that in Chevy Chase (the NW Current had a write-up on that presentation).
Anonymous
03/16/2014 15:36
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:
This is a very important point. I know several AA parents from Ward 3 who would not consider sending their kids to Wilson. All send their kids to St. Johns. They don't want their kids exposed to low SES AA kids is how they explained it.
If true, that is a troubling attitude. No better than white families who are afraid of exposing their children to low SES AA kids.
I find it troubling that white liberals don't understand it. Even now. Come on folks, try to step out of your culture and myopia for a minute. It is not driven by the same motive as white families who are afraid of exposing their children to low SES AA kids. I know some parents who would not send their kids to Latin and BASIS for the same reasons.
It actually is a completely different thing. Black kids who do well in a school where there are a lot of black under performing kids are harassed, accused of "acting white" etc etc. This is not what low SES AA kids do to white kids. They may pick on them a bit, but they don't accuse them of being traitors and the amount of venom is just not similar.
We live in Ward 3.
My husband grew up in bad parts of NYC, which he will not take us to, and he will never send our kids to Wilson because of the same issues in the Latino community. Our kids can discover their roots in college, but first they have to get there, without being threatened by a bunch of other Latino kids because they are doing well academically.
I used to think of this as "crabs in a barrel" that the kids who are not succeeding don't want others to succeed, but it is much more complicated, runs deeper, and is more dangerous. I don't know about gang activity at Wilson. But we would stay away from any school with a large population of Latino FARMS kids.
The chances of a white kid falling in with a "bad white crowd" is more likely at private school probably than at Wilson. But by "bad white crowd" you mean over privileged rich kids who drink and smoke pot not kids who deal drugs and carry weapons whose lifestyle might seem dangerous and intriguing to a higher SES AA or Latino teen. There is a difference between a bunch of white kids going slumming and my child stepping over one of these lines because the lines are more blurry and the consequences could be deadly. I don't mean to exaggerate, but I am completely serious about this and higher SES AA parents I think have the same concerns.
It is completely different from the fears that white people have about lower SES AA and Latino kids, and it is just too dangerous to risk.
Anonymous
03/16/2014 13:46
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Is there a proposed map of what the changes might look like in NW DC?
Anonymous
11/18/2013 13:17
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh, please. DCPS is not going to create a "ton of uncertainty" about upper NW/upper SES kids' schooling. MAYBE Eaton will feed to Hardy. MAYBE the OOB elementary kids will lose their Deal feed. Most of the moneybags parents will see "their" schools get whiter and richer.
But could they take away the OOB elementary kids feed to Deal and leave it alone elsewhere? I wish they would do this at Stuart; then you would see more Hill kids at the school.
Here's where kids live who attend Hobson:
4 (1%) live in Ward 1
0 live in Ward 2
0 live in Ward 3
11 (3%) live in Ward 4
56 (15%) live in Ward 5
150 (40% live in Ward 6
101 (27%) live in Ward 7
53 (14%) live in Ward 8
These numbers come from David Catania's education committee. They assume the enrollment at Hobson is 375, which seems low for 13-14. But the percentages should remain roughly the same if enrollment is higher.
Ward 9 is missing...And there are a lot of Ward 9 students in the mix still.
Anonymous
11/14/2013 15:39
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Why Walter Reed---why not Bell/CHEC? Renovated facility located 1 block from metro sitting at intersection of major north/south and east/west bus lines. If you wanted to do this then you would start by directing Shephard, Eaton, Bancroft and all OOB West of Park ES students into Bell starting in 6th and redirect the Bell IB boundary to adjust as described above.
Now I'm going to go get the popcorn and wait for Eastern Word Salad to come ranting that no one is going to mess with Principal Tukeva's CHEC Fiefdom.
Now I'm going to go get the popcorn and wait for Eastern Word Salad to come ranting that no one is going to mess with Principal Tukeva's CHEC Fiefdom.
Anonymous
11/14/2013 13:24
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
DCPS is clearly committed to throw more and more funds at failing Title I schools now that the US Department of Education has waived the NCLB mandates and there is not a school choice option. Thankfully some on the DC Council were awake long enough to offer push back against Catania's power grab and weighted-funding legislation.
Anonymous
11/14/2013 13:18
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
I like the idea too. I think in order for it to work you have to cherry pick to some degree. Maybe it's a test and DC-CAS scores for admission.
What else is going in the former Walter Reed site? Seems like a good spot.
What else is going in the former Walter Reed site? Seems like a good spot.
Anonymous
11/14/2013 12:54
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Anonymous wrote:The problem with punting the OOB ES population back to their IB schools is that they will be more prepared than the kids who stayed IB in their neighborhoods for school.
Perhaps a solution for creating an EoftP MS/HS solution would be to direct the entire OOB population of the West of Park elementaries into it, instead of telling those students that they have to go back to their neighborhood IB MS/HS. Concentrating all your WestofP OOB students into one place would give the new MS/HS a critical mass of prepared students who have come from solid ES programs with whom to work. You could also give priority to kids coming from charter schools to MS/HS---so you could attract families who may have liked IT, LAMB, CapCity, Two Rivers for the early years and would otherwise have done Latin/Basis/private. Then locate it in the 16th Street corridor and make it the IB MS/HS for all the east of the Park/west of 14th street neighborhoods from Colonial Village down to Logan Circle. Add all of those elements together and you would have a majority school population of middle to upper middle class students and/or students who may be lower SES but whose parents cared enough about their education to get them OOB west of the park or into a charter. Then you can replicate Deal/Wilson.
Add the successful Hill elementary schools as well.
I like it in concept, but I cannot see how you do this without appearing as though you are cherry picking the children of squeaky wheel parents and cutting out a lot of deserving kids. Maybe make it a test in magnet. Not necessarily GT, but some sort of minimum proficiency to ensure the student body is prepared.
Anonymous
11/14/2013 11:42
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
The problem with punting the OOB ES population back to their IB schools is that they will be more prepared than the kids who stayed IB in their neighborhoods for school.
Perhaps a solution for creating an EoftP MS/HS solution would be to direct the entire OOB population of the West of Park elementaries into it, instead of telling those students that they have to go back to their neighborhood IB MS/HS. Concentrating all your WestofP OOB students into one place would give the new MS/HS a critical mass of prepared students who have come from solid ES programs with whom to work. You could also give priority to kids coming from charter schools to MS/HS---so you could attract families who may have liked IT, LAMB, CapCity, Two Rivers for the early years and would otherwise have done Latin/Basis/private. Then locate it in the 16th Street corridor and make it the IB MS/HS for all the east of the Park/west of 14th street neighborhoods from Colonial Village down to Logan Circle. Add all of those elements together and you would have a majority school population of middle to upper middle class students and/or students who may be lower SES but whose parents cared enough about their education to get them OOB west of the park or into a charter. Then you can replicate Deal/Wilson.
Perhaps a solution for creating an EoftP MS/HS solution would be to direct the entire OOB population of the West of Park elementaries into it, instead of telling those students that they have to go back to their neighborhood IB MS/HS. Concentrating all your WestofP OOB students into one place would give the new MS/HS a critical mass of prepared students who have come from solid ES programs with whom to work. You could also give priority to kids coming from charter schools to MS/HS---so you could attract families who may have liked IT, LAMB, CapCity, Two Rivers for the early years and would otherwise have done Latin/Basis/private. Then locate it in the 16th Street corridor and make it the IB MS/HS for all the east of the Park/west of 14th street neighborhoods from Colonial Village down to Logan Circle. Add all of those elements together and you would have a majority school population of middle to upper middle class students and/or students who may be lower SES but whose parents cared enough about their education to get them OOB west of the park or into a charter. Then you can replicate Deal/Wilson.
Anonymous
11/14/2013 11:17
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
"Kids who attend OOB elementary schools should not be guaranteed entry to middle school that is also OOB. So if a kid goes to Murch and is OOB, they should not have an automatic right to go to Deal. It is ridiculous."
Completely agree.
Completely agree.
Anonymous
11/14/2013 09:53
Subject: DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year
Anonymous wrote:^^ Yes, but the OOB situation it is not the cause of the overcrowding.
It depends what you mean by "cause." Both Deal and Wilson still have large numbers of OOB students: Deal is 30% OOB and Wilson is 47%. Neither has admitted OOB students through the lottery in several years, these kids are there because of feeder preference. If there was no feeder preference, but instead an OOB lottery at sixth and ninth grades, where places in the lottery were limited to seats actually available, each school would have a smaller OOB population and would no longer be crowded.
But it is correct to say that the OOB policy didn't "cause" overcrowding. The overcrowding is due to a surge in popularity in the schools, and more kids entitled to a place than seats available.