Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

Forgot this one -

They started the adult gymnastics program to try to get a pipeline of qualified instructors and it didn't work. Apparently there has been some community idea volunteers can be trained to help. With such a specialized and risky sport, County has not done this.

This was a totally stupid idea and shows how incompetent DPR are in running the program. I've heard that older gymnasts in the Barcroft program have tried to get jobs teaching classes or summer camps and DPR never gets back to them. There's absolutely no reason that a high school junior or senior couldn't help teach a class.

I though the adult classes were really important and there was widespread demand for adult gymnastics.

There is. But it wasn't a good idea for a recruiting technique. Those classes seem to be really popular. But as DPR admitted, they haven't resulted in hiring those adults as coaches

I don’t know if you’re the person who said it’s a stupid way to recruit instructors. Doesn’t seem stupid to me. You get creative if you can’t find people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

Forgot this one -

They started the adult gymnastics program to try to get a pipeline of qualified instructors and it didn't work. Apparently there has been some community idea volunteers can be trained to help. With such a specialized and risky sport, County has not done this.

This was a totally stupid idea and shows how incompetent DPR are in running the program. I've heard that older gymnasts in the Barcroft program have tried to get jobs teaching classes or summer camps and DPR never gets back to them. There's absolutely no reason that a high school junior or senior couldn't help teach a class.

I though the adult classes were really important and there was widespread demand for adult gymnastics.

There is. But it wasn't a good idea for a recruiting technique. Those classes seem to be really popular. But as DPR admitted, they haven't resulted in hiring those adults as coaches

Anonymous wrote:For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

The DPR presentation was completely misleading. It didn't contain any of the information that every single gymnastics class is filled the moment it opens and that there's tons of demand. They also made it pretty clear that they haven't considered any alternative classes for the Barcroft space to try to make up for the shortage of gymnastics coaches. Other gyms hosts related classes like ninja classes, cheer classes, birthday parties, and senior or adult fitness classes during the day. There are lots of options even without qualified gymnastics coaches. Competitive programs also often host private lessons at a super high margin to help cover overhead. None of these options have been explored by DPR.

In their presentation Dpr also made it sound like the facility is empty during peak hours with only one gymnast being on a piece of equipment at a time. But if you've ever been there, that's not how the program works. All the gymnasts are working in circuits so everyone is practicing and equipment is utilized by more than one gymnast and shared. It was a very misleading description. The facility used to support rec classes for another 1700 kids per year. DPR is trying to represent that they don't have capacity for more classes because the equipment is so bulky and they need space for safety. That's just wrong. The reason the facility isn't being utilized more is because DPR isn't scheduling more classes.

The DPR presentation also pointed to alternative gymnastics programs that make absolutely no sense and aren't real alternatives for those in Arlington, including those super far away including in Fredericksburg, toddler gyms that don't offer real gymnastics, or other programs that are completely oversubscribed with no openings and waitlists. It was very misleading.

The DPR presentation also decline to answer board member questions about out the rec gymnasts fee waivers, charging those costs directly to the program when those are fees at the county subsidizes. Those were broken out for the swim program but DPR lumped them in with the cost for gymnastics to try to make fee recovery look worse.

By contrast, AAC fees are barely increasing next year with some only increasing $2 and there was no assessment of cost recovery for that program. The County Manager is proposing to spend more than a million dollars subsidizing Long Bridge next year, with the facility cost running a deficit of more than $3 million only propped up by the Boeing donation.

DPR also haven't stated any actual need for the Barcroft facility other than gymnastics. The plan is to leave it empty for at least a year with no proposal for what to do with it. They've shown no need for additional gym space or a shortage of space for classes, or even a budget to host things in that space. There's been no actual assessment of what would be done with that facility that has already been purchased by the county and maintained by the county and outfitted by the county. They also haven't done any assessment for what it will cost to turn the facility into whatever they think they are going to do with it because they have no plans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

Forgot this one -

They started the adult gymnastics program to try to get a pipeline of qualified instructors and it didn't work. Apparently there has been some community idea volunteers can be trained to help. With such a specialized and risky sport, County has not done this.

This was a totally stupid idea and shows how incompetent DPR are in running the program. I've heard that older gymnasts in the Barcroft program have tried to get jobs teaching classes or summer camps and DPR never gets back to them. There's absolutely no reason that a high school junior or senior couldn't help teach a class.

You can’t imagine a world where their availability or experience wouldn’t be a fit?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

Forgot this one -

They started the adult gymnastics program to try to get a pipeline of qualified instructors and it didn't work. Apparently there has been some community idea volunteers can be trained to help. With such a specialized and risky sport, County has not done this.

This was a totally stupid idea and shows how incompetent DPR are in running the program. I've heard that older gymnasts in the Barcroft program have tried to get jobs teaching classes or summer camps and DPR never gets back to them. There's absolutely no reason that a high school junior or senior couldn't help teach a class.

I though the adult classes were really important and there was widespread demand for adult gymnastics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

Forgot this one -

They started the adult gymnastics program to try to get a pipeline of qualified instructors and it didn't work. Apparently there has been some community idea volunteers can be trained to help. With such a specialized and risky sport, County has not done this.

This was a totally stupid idea and shows how incompetent DPR are in running the program. I've heard that older gymnasts in the Barcroft program have tried to get jobs teaching classes or summer camps and DPR never gets back to them. There's absolutely no reason that a high school junior or senior couldn't help teach a class.

Seems like you have it figured out how to safely staff a gymnastics program. Sounds like a job field for you to explore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

Forgot this one -

They started the adult gymnastics program to try to get a pipeline of qualified instructors and it didn't work. Apparently there has been some community idea volunteers can be trained to help. With such a specialized and risky sport, County has not done this.

This was a totally stupid idea and shows how incompetent DPR are in running the program. I've heard that older gymnasts in the Barcroft program have tried to get jobs teaching classes or summer camps and DPR never gets back to them. There's absolutely no reason that a high school junior or senior couldn't help teach a class.

Anonymous wrote:For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

Forgot this one -

They started the adult gymnastics program to try to get a pipeline of qualified instructors and it didn't work. Apparently there has been some community idea volunteers can be trained to help. With such a specialized and risky sport, County has not done this.

For those interested, County work session on this yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrPkJSDlBpQ&t=1657s

Take aways:

Gymanstics program NOT currently covering facility costs
Historically rec program used to subsidize competitive team.
Serious issues finding qualified instructors and they detailed all the things they've done to try to recruit instructors.
Since there are not enough instructors, currently rec classes are being canceled to be sure the competitive team can continue on
Barcroft is NOT heavily used during the day as compared to other rec centers (this is based on data)

The issue of a recreational and adaptive gymnastics program should be separated out from the competitive team.

Anonymous wrote:The ArlNow article seemed to imply though there is no charge for the facility built into the program previously being "profitable". Is it profitable if the building and utilities, equipment maintenance and replacement cycle is included? Was it ever profitable if you include those things?

I'm guessing a bunch of the cost savings they are projecting include the overall facility costs.

It would be so much easier to have this conversation at the county manager put out actual information. Gymnastics parents have asked and asked for information after his recommendation to close the program and he's provided nothing. It's really frustrating to not be able to look at numbers or a respond in any meaningful way. Truthfully, absolutely no one knows what the real numbers look like because the county has decided not to share them thus far. This is the absolute opposite of transparency.

The ArlNow article seemed to imply though there is no charge for the facility built into the program previously being "profitable". Is it profitable if the building and utilities, equipment maintenance and replacement cycle is included? Was it ever profitable if you include those things?

I'm guessing a bunch of the cost savings they are projecting include the overall facility costs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

And the needs of a private organization and a publicly run organization are different. Rec serves the most people (including people with disabilities) and has the best chance of providing cost recovery to the county so it maintains its sustainability long term.

Competitive is such a niche and expensive product for so few individuals. It’s really hard to see the public good in keeping it, especially when we’re in a budget year where something else is going to have to give.

Those of you who are angling to keep it - what would you cut? Are you willing to accept 50% or more higher fees?

I guess I am a bit confused as to why you think rec is so pricy. We obliviously pay significantly more than families in rec gymnastics. The last time we had cost recovery numbers for the competitive program we were at ore than 100% cost recovery but it has been ages since they provided us this information. If you are asking whether competitive families are willing to pay 100% cost recovery for our program I would wager the answer is yes. It is for me anyway!

Families in the competitive program can pay over 8K a year for higher levels (and then all travel costs and meet fees are paid directly bypassing the county, which can be another couple grand). The competitive coaches also generally teach rec.

Sorry, I meant to say why you think the competitive program is so pricy to run compared to rec. Yes, the kids have lots of hours in the gym but they already pay signifcantly more (plus everything else I said lol)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

And the needs of a private organization and a publicly run organization are different. Rec serves the most people (including people with disabilities) and has the best chance of providing cost recovery to the county so it maintains its sustainability long term.

Competitive is such a niche and expensive product for so few individuals. It’s really hard to see the public good in keeping it, especially when we’re in a budget year where something else is going to have to give.

Those of you who are angling to keep it - what would you cut? Are you willing to accept 50% or more higher fees?

I guess I am a bit confused as to why you think rec is so pricy. We obliviously pay significantly more than families in rec gymnastics. The last time we had cost recovery numbers for the competitive program we were at ore than 100% cost recovery but it has been ages since they provided us this information. If you are asking whether competitive families are willing to pay 100% cost recovery for our program I would wager the answer is yes. It is for me anyway!

Families in the competitive program can pay over 8K a year for higher levels (and then all travel costs and meet fees are paid directly bypassing the county, which can be another couple grand). The competitive coaches also generally teach rec.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

And the needs of a private organization and a publicly run organization are different. Rec serves the most people (including people with disabilities) and has the best chance of providing cost recovery to the county so it maintains its sustainability long term.

Competitive is such a niche and expensive product for so few individuals. It’s really hard to see the public good in keeping it, especially when we’re in a budget year where something else is going to have to give.

Those of you who are angling to keep it - what would you cut? Are you willing to accept 50% or more higher fees?

I don't know what you mean by what would you cut? The issue is that DPR isn't running all of the rec classes and community activities they used to because they haven't fully staffed the program. That's why there's such a large shortfall. Cutting things isn't going to make the program recover its fees. Instead, DPR need to start offering all of the camps, classes, birthday parties, open gyms, no school day camps, and activities they used to when the program was profitable. It's totally fine if they need to look at the fees for the competition team and make sure they're appropriate. I haven't heard any parents object to that. But part of this has to be making sure that the facility is being fully utilized both to recover fees and to maximize its value to the community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

And the needs of a private organization and a publicly run organization are different. Rec serves the most people (including people with disabilities) and has the best chance of providing cost recovery to the county so it maintains its sustainability long term.

Competitive is such a niche and expensive product for so few individuals. It’s really hard to see the public good in keeping it, especially when we’re in a budget year where something else is going to have to give.

Those of you who are angling to keep it - what would you cut? Are you willing to accept 50% or more higher fees?