This seems to be obvious but if you are not going to be the bread winner you need to be helpful to your wife so she can bring home the bread. someone needs to do it unless you have a trust fund. i don't think women have an issue with nice helpful guys it's the men who are not helpful AND do not cover expenses who are giving men a bad name.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's jobs are a necessity not a luxury.

I also can't imagine viewing a job as a luxury. Imagine telling a man his job is just a silly little hobby.

I'm a lawyer, I out earn my husband slightly and I still get this attitude, particularly from older family members (including my own mom).

For many it is as they spend more than they earn on their clothes, bags, jewelry, grooming, eating out, social life. Its not like their families are benefiting. Their husbands have to carry more home/children/mental load and still work hard to be the breadwinners because wives are working.

Lol! What fanfic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's jobs are a necessity not a luxury.

I also can't imagine viewing a job as a luxury. Imagine telling a man his job is just a silly little hobby.

I'm a lawyer, I out earn my husband slightly and I still get this attitude, particularly from older family members (including my own mom).

For many it is as they spend more than they earn on their clothes, bags, jewelry, grooming, eating out, social life. Its not like their families are benefiting. Their husbands have to carry more home/children/mental load and still work hard to be the breadwinners because wives are working.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They've shown that men still do fewer chores even in households where women earn more.

I personally know three different women where they by far out earn their husbands but their husbands aren't picking up any slack at home. One ended up divorced, one I think is on the verge of it.

This. Women have been scammed and are voting with their feet. Feminism was supposed to mean that you could care for your home and children - AND IF YOU WANTED TO BECAUES YOU HAD THE BURNING INTELLECTUAL PASSION FOR SOMETHING - have a career. Instead it has come to mean that you must take care of all child/home/food tasks and bust your hump at some draining 50 hour a week job. It's nothing more than a scam.

Ummm that’s not what feminism means. That’s what *sexism* means.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

. . . .

Well put and I agree.

Can everyone see how phones and social media are largely behind these trends?

Social media has definitely been implicated in the whole incel mess (although I believe the number of so-called incels has been blown way out of proportion; there aren’t many of them).

80 to 90% of all dating women focusing on the top 10% of men is the result of dating apps, which instantly allow women to reject any man under 6 feet tall who makes under six-figures ($100,000 per year). The profiles of all those other men are never even seen.

Add to that the well-intentioned movement toward “fat acceptance.” While well-intentioned, it’s used as an excuse for both genders to be unhealthy and unfit, which is exactly the opposite of what FLOTUS Michelle Obama was trying to help us avoid: unhealthy, sedentary lifestyles.

This is a narrative being pushed by red pillers, men. This is not accurate to what most women say. It’s easier to blame women for not liking you for being 5’11” rather than admitting your horrendous personality drove them away.

Rule #1: Don't listen to what women say, watch what they do.

I have. Lots of women married to lots of different kinds of guys. If red-pill salesmen were telling the truth, this would not happen.

It’s literally part of the red pill philosophy.

Find some way for these men to blame women for their own failings. They generate this whole narrative, push the divide, push the anger, push the blame, and also try to push the solution (probably involving paying these guys $$$). It’s so transparent from the outside, but for these men who are indoctrinated it’s hard to break free. There is another thread on here about preventing young boys from getting involved into that crap, great read.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

. . . .

Well put and I agree.

Can everyone see how phones and social media are largely behind these trends?

Social media has definitely been implicated in the whole incel mess (although I believe the number of so-called incels has been blown way out of proportion; there aren’t many of them).

80 to 90% of all dating women focusing on the top 10% of men is the result of dating apps, which instantly allow women to reject any man under 6 feet tall who makes under six-figures ($100,000 per year). The profiles of all those other men are never even seen.

Add to that the well-intentioned movement toward “fat acceptance.” While well-intentioned, it’s used as an excuse for both genders to be unhealthy and unfit, which is exactly the opposite of what FLOTUS Michelle Obama was trying to help us avoid: unhealthy, sedentary lifestyles.

This is a narrative being pushed by red pillers, men. This is not accurate to what most women say. It’s easier to blame women for not liking you for being 5’11” rather than admitting your horrendous personality drove them away.

Rule #1: Don't listen to what women say, watch what they do.

I have. Lots of women married to lots of different kinds of guys. If red-pill salesmen were telling the truth, this would not happen.

Oh, no. The red pill salesmen will always move the goal posts. Sure, they *married* them, but ... they never dated them? Nevermind the years of f**king and holding hands and whatnot. They truly lust after paragons of masculinity like Stephen Miller.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

. . . .

Well put and I agree.

Can everyone see how phones and social media are largely behind these trends?

Social media has definitely been implicated in the whole incel mess (although I believe the number of so-called incels has been blown way out of proportion; there aren’t many of them).

80 to 90% of all dating women focusing on the top 10% of men is the result of dating apps, which instantly allow women to reject any man under 6 feet tall who makes under six-figures ($100,000 per year). The profiles of all those other men are never even seen.

Add to that the well-intentioned movement toward “fat acceptance.” While well-intentioned, it’s used as an excuse for both genders to be unhealthy and unfit, which is exactly the opposite of what FLOTUS Michelle Obama was trying to help us avoid: unhealthy, sedentary lifestyles.

This is a narrative being pushed by red pillers, men. This is not accurate to what most women say. It’s easier to blame women for not liking you for being 5’11” rather than admitting your horrendous personality drove them away.

Rule #1: Don't listen to what women say, watch what they do.

dp.. the majority of women I know who are married aren't married to men with the 6/6/6. Maybe one or two of the 6 but not all 3.

Exactly. These men are just whiners and don’t care to improve their personality or how they treat women. Easier to blame women than improving yourself to be attractive to the women you want to date. They feel entitled to date 9s and 10s and ask what they bring to the table, meanwhile these men are 2s and don’t even HAVE a table. I don’t think women need someone making 6figs but they sure don’t want a bum who they will have to support AND still do the majority of childcare and household care.
Women have been moving ahead for the last few decades and many men have stayed stagnant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

. . . .

Well put and I agree.

Can everyone see how phones and social media are largely behind these trends?

Social media has definitely been implicated in the whole incel mess (although I believe the number of so-called incels has been blown way out of proportion; there aren’t many of them).

80 to 90% of all dating women focusing on the top 10% of men is the result of dating apps, which instantly allow women to reject any man under 6 feet tall who makes under six-figures ($100,000 per year). The profiles of all those other men are never even seen.

Add to that the well-intentioned movement toward “fat acceptance.” While well-intentioned, it’s used as an excuse for both genders to be unhealthy and unfit, which is exactly the opposite of what FLOTUS Michelle Obama was trying to help us avoid: unhealthy, sedentary lifestyles.

This is a narrative being pushed by red pillers, men. This is not accurate to what most women say. It’s easier to blame women for not liking you for being 5’11” rather than admitting your horrendous personality drove them away.

Rule #1: Don't listen to what women say, watch what they do.

I have. Lots of women married to lots of different kinds of guys. If red-pill salesmen were telling the truth, this would not happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Wall Street Journal profiled single women who are concerned about money and children.
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/relationships/american-women-are-giving-up-on-marriage-54840971?st=i8f72H&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink/

Katie, who is 30 and runs Lume, a leadership coaching startup, out of New York City. Katie spent the first half of 2024 going on three or four dates a week with men she met on apps, such as Hinge and Bumble ... calling it “the only thing you can put 10,000 hours into and end up right where you started.”

Christina, a 31-year-old wildland firefighter in rural Republic, Wash., who didn’t go to college. ... paid $90,000 for a two-bedroom ... "so I don’t feel like I need to be tied financially,” ... doubted she would find someone else who aligned with her progressive views in her conservative town. So she stopped looking. “If I need companionship, I volunteer at the dog shelter.”

Alicia's last long-term relationship ... “wanted the white picket fence and me at home with the kids,” ... despite the fact that her salary was nearly 50% higher than his.

Rachael, a 33-year-old real-estate agent in Savannah, Ga., ... left her boyfriend because she was tired of being both the breadwinner and primary parent.

Tina, who is 34 and works for a health startup ... splits her time between New York City and San Diego, has lately spent hours researching the “Single Mothers by Choice” movement and started saving for a baby with a high-yield savings account.

Actually, men are giving up on marrying American Women. Sorry, but foreign women have them out classed.

LOL. 95+% of American men can’t even afford to travel to another country, let alone attract a wife in one.

Try again.

Passport bros do exist, but they are a pretty small section of the market. They are also usually gross, ugly, have poor personalities and no one “at home” will put up with them. They go to a poor country, find a woman who they can picture paint a wonderful future with in America, and turn them into indentured servants. It’s basically sex trafficking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Wall Street Journal profiled single women who are concerned about money and children.
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/relationships/american-women-are-giving-up-on-marriage-54840971?st=i8f72H&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink/

Katie, who is 30 and runs Lume, a leadership coaching startup, out of New York City. Katie spent the first half of 2024 going on three or four dates a week with men she met on apps, such as Hinge and Bumble ... calling it “the only thing you can put 10,000 hours into and end up right where you started.”

Christina, a 31-year-old wildland firefighter in rural Republic, Wash., who didn’t go to college. ... paid $90,000 for a two-bedroom ... "so I don’t feel like I need to be tied financially,” ... doubted she would find someone else who aligned with her progressive views in her conservative town. So she stopped looking. “If I need companionship, I volunteer at the dog shelter.”

Alicia's last long-term relationship ... “wanted the white picket fence and me at home with the kids,” ... despite the fact that her salary was nearly 50% higher than his.

Rachael, a 33-year-old real-estate agent in Savannah, Ga., ... left her boyfriend because she was tired of being both the breadwinner and primary parent.

Tina, who is 34 and works for a health startup ... splits her time between New York City and San Diego, has lately spent hours researching the “Single Mothers by Choice” movement and started saving for a baby with a high-yield savings account.

Actually, men are giving up on marrying American Women. Sorry, but foreign women have them out classed.

And vice versa. I'm in an area with a high concentration of medical professionals, near a large research university, and it's incredible to see how many blue eyed blondes are married to specialist doctors, dentists, and surgeons who are first generation immigrants, most of them from India and Korea. And they are also taller than white Americans, in addition to making a GREAT income. I don't know the entire story, but they seem to be involved into their children's lives and very family oriented.

White American woman here: this is correct. I exclusively date educated men of these origins post divorce. They are much nicer and in a better physical and financial shape than white Americans

Anonymous wrote:Well 50% of kids have no father figure in their life since birth…. May as well be Uncle Sam daycare, preschool and aftercare.

Incorrect stat. It’s 25%. Still large. But ultimately that’s on the men for “opting out” of raising their own f***ing children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

Do you think young women are stupid? It’s not hard to see.

Dating isn’t like marriage. It’s hard to see down the line how someone will interact with you once kids come along. Especially if you have lust blinders on.

This was the first generation of young women who truly saw moms work in near equal measure to dads- and breadwin in record numbers. This is also the first generation of young women who were raised in the activity laden nightmare that is modern day parenting. They heard terms like “mental load” and heard about the invisible work of parenting. They saw their parents work their ass off just to pay for daycare, while their standard of living wasn’t guaranteed to rise. This generation of women is neither smarter nor dumber than past- but they sure are more educated on the realities of cost of living/kids/quality of life issues

Agree to disagree. A subset of women may be thinking along these lines and not wanting to marry sure, but is that the primary reason for the decline in marriage? I personally think the other factors I raised, specifically the availability of well paid and educated men, are more relevant to the choice not to marry, and the workload balance is a greater cause for divorce.

Gotta love the mansplaining over tons of actual studies, conducted by people much smarter than you 😂 you’re making the thread on why women don’t want to be married tomen for us!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

. . . .

Well put and I agree.

Can everyone see how phones and social media are largely behind these trends?

Social media has definitely been implicated in the whole incel mess (although I believe the number of so-called incels has been blown way out of proportion; there aren’t many of them).

80 to 90% of all dating women focusing on the top 10% of men is the result of dating apps, which instantly allow women to reject any man under 6 feet tall who makes under six-figures ($100,000 per year). The profiles of all those other men are never even seen.

Add to that the well-intentioned movement toward “fat acceptance.” While well-intentioned, it’s used as an excuse for both genders to be unhealthy and unfit, which is exactly the opposite of what FLOTUS Michelle Obama was trying to help us avoid: unhealthy, sedentary lifestyles.

This is a narrative being pushed by red pillers, men. This is not accurate to what most women say. It’s easier to blame women for not liking you for being 5’11” rather than admitting your horrendous personality drove them away.

Rule #1: Don't listen to what women say, watch what they do.

dp.. the majority of women I know who are married aren't married to men with the 6/6/6. Maybe one or two of the 6 but not all 3.

I thought this was about revealed dating preferences and not what your married friends had to settle for?

Of course the majority are not married to 6/6/6/ men, because those men are exceedingly rare.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

. . . .

Well put and I agree.

Can everyone see how phones and social media are largely behind these trends?

Social media has definitely been implicated in the whole incel mess (although I believe the number of so-called incels has been blown way out of proportion; there aren’t many of them).

80 to 90% of all dating women focusing on the top 10% of men is the result of dating apps, which instantly allow women to reject any man under 6 feet tall who makes under six-figures ($100,000 per year). The profiles of all those other men are never even seen.

Add to that the well-intentioned movement toward “fat acceptance.” While well-intentioned, it’s used as an excuse for both genders to be unhealthy and unfit, which is exactly the opposite of what FLOTUS Michelle Obama was trying to help us avoid: unhealthy, sedentary lifestyles.

This is a narrative being pushed by red pillers, men. This is not accurate to what most women say. It’s easier to blame women for not liking you for being 5’11” rather than admitting your horrendous personality drove them away.

Rule #1: Don't listen to what women say, watch what they do.

dp.. the majority of women I know who are married aren't married to men with the 6/6/6. Maybe one or two of the 6 but not all 3.

“Your list of the common extent of accomplishments,” said Darcy, “has too much truth. The word is applied to many a woman who deserves it no otherwise than by netting a purse, or covering a screen. But I am very far from agreeing with you in your estimation of ladies in general. I cannot boast of knowing more than half a dozen, in the whole range of my acquaintance, that are really accomplished.”

“Nor I, I am sure,” said Miss Bingley.

“Then,” observed Elizabeth, “you must comprehend a great deal in your idea of an accomplished woman.”

“Yes, I do comprehend a great deal in it.”

“Oh! certainly,” cried his faithful assistant, “no one can be really esteemed accomplished who does not greatly surpass what is usually met with. A woman must have a thorough knowledge of music, singing, drawing, dancing, all the modern languages, to deserve the word; and besides all this, she must possess a certain something in her air and manner of walking, the tone of her voice, her address and expressions, or the word will be but half deserved.”

“All this she must possess,” added Darcy, “and to all this she must yet add something more substantial, in the improvement of her mind by extensive reading.”

“I am no longer surprised at your knowing only six accomplished women. I rather wonder now at your knowing any.”