Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of a belief.

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is the lack belief in God. It is not the lack of belief in anything. It’s fundamentally impossible as a human being not to believe in anything. Atheists have all kinds of beliefs about how the universe works. Look at how hard they are trying in this thread to convince people of these things! It’s a belief system — it’s just different from a religious one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of a belief.

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of a belief.

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is the lack belief in God. It is not the lack of belief in anything. It’s fundamentally impossible as a human being not to believe in anything. Atheists have all kinds of beliefs about how the universe works. Look at how hard they are trying in this thread to convince people of these things! It’s a belief system — it’s just different from a religious one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of a belief.

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

NP Atheist
I agree with your points and I certainly never try to convert. This is a personal realization. As I do with other beliefs, I never tried to tell my own kids religion was wrong. One really became interested in Christianity and I never judged or blocked them from learning more. The only beliefs I've made sure to express disdain for is that women are less than men when news of Taliban oppression was publicized. I walked them through those sect beliefs and how they have daily experience proving that false. I give them as much information on religion (and any other subject) as I can until they beg me to stop or until I beg them to leave me alone.
I want them to respect the beliefs of others in our community so I don't judge in front of them, I barely judge it at all as I don't look down on others for subscribing to things that might help them out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

I actually spent A LOT of time in therapy and twelve step meetings and all kinds of other stuff and it did not do very much in the end.

I can understand that you don’t believe. I am not here to convince you otherwise.

But there are millions and millions of people whose lives have been changed for the better because of religion. You can recognize it as having a positive impact on some people without believing in it yourself. Or maybe you can’t in which case that shows just how close-minded you are.

Which part of the post (or any previous posts) indicated that religion has never had a positive impact? I don't see that anywhere. That is a distraction to the basis of the last couple of pages which are 1) morals don't have to be based on religion and 2) religion does have a negative impact on society.

And, if the 12 step meetings were part of AA, those are problematic since they have a heavy infusion of religion into them.

Oh, so now, we can agree that religion can in fact have a positive impact? Please read back through this entire thread where, yes, multiple people — especially whoever kept calling religion the “Bronze Age myth” — were implying on every single post that religion was not capable of providing this social good. But, hey, I am happy to see it acknowledged now.

I have many problems with twelves step meetings. There is no guarantee that people who are just as screwed up as you are actually have any advice useful about how to change your life. Many of them have very bad advice in my experience. Also, believing in some abstract “god” or “higher power” did very little for me in terms of change for me. It was only until I discovered a savior who actually lived amongst us that God became beautiful and real to me.

I am the "bronze age myth" poster. I implied no such thing, and in fact I was very explicit about what my issue is. That people's modern adherence to bronze age myths is doing real harm to real people in real time today. That's it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

I actually spent A LOT of time in therapy and twelve step meetings and all kinds of other stuff and it did not do very much in the end.

I can understand that you don’t believe. I am not here to convince you otherwise.

But there are millions and millions of people whose lives have been changed for the better because of religion. You can recognize it as having a positive impact on some people without believing in it yourself. Or maybe you can’t in which case that shows just how close-minded you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

What a terrific get out of jail free card! And since your conversion, you're in the queue for salvation before small children dying of dysentery and measles and poverty in non-Christian communities?

I never said that. The question of what happens to the unreached is a difficult one and I am comfortable saying that I don’t know the answer. You also don’t need to have every answer in order to believe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

I actually spent A LOT of time in therapy and twelve step meetings and all kinds of other stuff and it did not do very much in the end.

I can understand that you don’t believe. I am not here to convince you otherwise.

But there are millions and millions of people whose lives have been changed for the better because of religion. You can recognize it as having a positive impact on some people without believing in it yourself. Or maybe you can’t in which case that shows just how close-minded you are.

Which part of the post (or any previous posts) indicated that religion has never had a positive impact? I don't see that anywhere. That is a distraction to the basis of the last couple of pages which are 1) morals don't have to be based on religion and 2) religion does have a negative impact on society.

And, if the 12 step meetings were part of AA, those are problematic since they have a heavy infusion of religion into them.

Oh, so now, we can agree that religion can in fact have a positive impact? Please read back through this entire thread where, yes, multiple people — especially whoever kept calling religion the “Bronze Age myth” — were implying on every single post that religion was not capable of providing this social good. But, hey, I am happy to see it acknowledged now.

I have many problems with twelves step meetings. There is no guarantee that people who are just as screwed up as you are actually have any advice useful about how to change your life. Many of them have very bad advice in my experience. Also, believing in some abstract “god” or “higher power” did very little for me in terms of change for me. It was only until I discovered a savior who actually lived amongst us that God became beautiful and real to me.