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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

I am going to weigh in as an adult with well managed and medicated ADHD - because I have done the work to get where I am and continuously maintain my progress. I also ask for help when I need it and give my spouse a heads up when I am struggling or if I am worried I will drop the ball on something he needs me to do.

Learning how your mind works and making adjustments to your environment, systems, or actions to better communicate, collaborate, and coordinate with your family and society in general is not “changing who you are”. Taking medication so you don’t get side tracked looking at items in the hall closet or start a random chore when you are supposed to leave for a BD party is not stifling your creativity and personal expression.
It’s a really immature and defeatist attitude to just shrug your shoulders and say “it’s who I am, I can’t help it”. But I understand why it’s easy to be defensive or shift blame when being called out because ADHD has a high correlation with rejection sensitivity. If you were shamed a lot as a kid for your ADHD tendencies, it’s comfortable and easy to just not do things you might screw up or to deflect / blame others when you do make mistakes or fall short of what was expected. If you think you might fail, it’s best not to try at all, right? Or if you think you might improve for a bit, but relapse under stress, it’s better to have never made the effort lest people be disappointed when you mess up again. Might as well keep the bar low while simultaneously declaring “It’s who I AM. YOU can’t change ME!” like a petulant teenager.

To make an analogy to weight. My body wants to be heavier than I prefer. I am genetically predisposed to be at a BMI of 28-32, 40-50 pounds over weight. I have fought this tendency my whole adult life. It is not changing who I am to consistently exercise and limit my portions in order stay “slightly overweight” instead of obese. It’s not “fair” that plenty of people achieve the same or leaner physiques with far less effort. It’s also not my naturally slim spouse’s responsibility to plan and prepare all my meals and only allow healthy foods in our home to accommodate my issue. If he filled our house with junk food and then screamed at me if I gained weight, that would be cruel. It is kind of him to be aware of my issue and make time for me to exercise and to eat ice cream or treats without announcing it or offering me any. I am who I am and he is not asking me to change. He is being respectful and making small accommodations to help me leverage the systems and structures I am responsible for creating and maintaining.

Actually, the analogous situation being discussed is one in which you are fine with your weight, or even unaware that you are overweight. And yet your spouse thinks you’re a failure and a loser for not doing the work to be thin, rather than merely overweight. (Haven’t you heard of Ozempic?)

For you, overweight is good enough and it’s difficult for you to maintain. But for your spouse, only *thin* is good enough and overweight is the same as obese, and if you won’t work even harder than you already are then you’re a crappy partner.

That's not analogous unless the person's weight is directly impacting their partner beyond reasonable accommodations. Weight and executive function are not the same thing. You can be 40lbs overweight and still be a committed partner and involved parent even if you are doing nothing to lose the weight.

There could be situations where extra weight is inhibiting someone's ability to fully participate in family life -- perhaps if the added weight is leading to being very sedentary or not wanting to be social -- then it would be reasonable for their partner to say "hey it bothers me that you don't seem to want to play with the kids or do things outside with them or participate in events at school or church that I thought we valued as a family." That's not the same as saying "lose the damn weight I don't care how hard it is." It's okay to ask your partner to fulfill their part of your partnership even if doing so is harder for them due to a disability or issue beyond their control.

In OP's case the situation her DH is happy with is not showing up for her or her kids. I don't know if he's happy with his ADHD management or what he's doing to address it if anything. But within their marriage he has unilaterally decided he is okay with having his wife do all the work for their kids and household. That's not acceptable and not something to be sympathetic towards even if you ARE sympathetic towards his executive functioning issues.

Is making no effort to be sexually attractive to your partner showing up for your partner, though? I would argue that it is not.

I’m sure you think he should be attracted to her anyway. Being overweight should be good enough for him. OP’s husband probably thinks getting the kid to the party, albeit late, with a crappy cash gift but a gift no less should be good enough.

(And once again, she did not do any work in this situation. He did the work, he just didn’t do it very well. So for all of you saying he is “leaving everything for her to do” - you are literally just making that up.)

OP says that she does 95% of all the childcare and household admin. She then gives an example if the quality if work her DH turns in on his 5% and it's pitiful. So no one is making anything up-- the premise of the thread is that OP's DH doesn't do jack squat.

You know what isn't attractive? A spouse who can barely roll out if bed in order to take his son to a birthday party and then shoves some cash in an envelope as a gift. I'd take middle aged weight gain over being a lazy $hit any day of the week.

This is called individual preferences/standards. A mismatch here is actually the root of the problem when one spouse isn’t meeting the expectations of the other in any area.

For example, your husband might be thrilled if you skipped the half hour Target run for a present, put some cash in an envelope, and spent that time having sex with him instead (which you’re usually too tired to do).

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Anonymous wrote:I am in charge of 95%+ of the household admin and am the main breadwinner. I am constantly resentful bc I am always either working, doing admin or at best telling dh to do things bc he does not initiate the need to do or buy anything that needs to be bought or happen. He took ds to an 8th birthday party today while I took other dc on overnight for travel sport. I reminded him multiple times about party and that he would need a gift; he said he would get the gift. ds tells me this evening that they were late to the party bc dh overslept and had no gift so gave kid money in envelope.
yes dh has adhd. yes is on meds.
I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand.

Please tell me how I can raise my ADHD son (on meds) not to become like this. I am legitimately scared for his future partner and purposely trying to drop the rope now and help him care about anything, especially organization and hygiene. It's a challenge.

As the wife of an adult who was diagnosed with ADHD after our baby was born but whose MIL later acknowledged all the things she did to make DH’s life work, I would do extensive work with executive functioning coaches and therapists trained in ADhD and anxiety and then I would encourage your son to consider not dating or marrying if you have the tiniest doubts about his executive functioning capacity. He can be an uncle and a friend and a lot of other things and still have a complete life.

It’s really unfair to kids to be fathered by someone who needs the same or more amount of parenting as them. I’m not trying to be mean, but you really can’t know how your son will function under the load of adult life and independence, and even career and college success is wildly different than the demands of family life. My DH can get through the work day and he can do 1-2 things at home or 1-2 things related to our kid, but once the meds wear off, which things will be completed is anyone’s guess. And yes, he still struggles with organization and hygiene, which is insane. I am parenting DH more than my 9 year old and it’s unfair to me and our child. MIL did apologize to me at one point. That was validating, if nothing else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in charge of 95%+ of the household admin and am the main breadwinner. I am constantly resentful bc I am always either working, doing admin or at best telling dh to do things bc he does not initiate the need to do or buy anything that needs to be bought or happen. He took ds to an 8th birthday party today while I took other dc on overnight for travel sport. I reminded him multiple times about party and that he would need a gift; he said he would get the gift. ds tells me this evening that they were late to the party bc dh overslept and had no gift so gave kid money in envelope.
yes dh has adhd. yes is on meds.
I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand.

Please tell me how I can raise my ADHD son (on meds) not to become like this. I am legitimately scared for his future partner and purposely trying to drop the rope now and help him care about anything, especially organization and hygiene. It's a challenge.

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Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Did you actually think this needed explaining? Everyone understands what you’re saying: accept it or leave. And that accepting it will empower her to leave. That may work for you. But for many other posters, pointing out the inequality of her situation (and reminding her that she’s seeing it clearly) and that she doesn’t need to accept it is a far more direct pathway to action. Maybe she’ll leave, maybe she won’t, but it’s a lot better than telling her to continue eating sh#t with a spoon or divorce.

Life is all about eating sh**t. You can chose the crap you know, learn to season it better. Or you can risk trying some new crap, which might initially taste good because it's new, but eventually it will wear off and you'll realize it's still crap. Even it's just sitting in your own crap.

And don't forget, we all crap and if you're in a relationship, your partner is also eating with your crap even if they aren't complaining. Maybe their tolerance is higher or they are able to keep themselves distracted enough to not be bothered. But its there. If your spouse doesn't see it, your kids certainly do. WE ALL HAVE IT.

That is the reality. Now, once you've accepted that eating other people's crap is part of existing...how can you manage without it making you sick?

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Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Did you actually think this needed explaining? Everyone understands what you’re saying: accept it or leave. And that accepting it will empower her to leave. That may work for you. But for many other posters, pointing out the inequality of her situation (and reminding her that she’s seeing it clearly) and that she doesn’t need to accept it is a far more direct pathway to action. Maybe she’ll leave, maybe she won’t, but it’s a lot better than telling her to continue eating sh#t with a spoon or divorce.

Life is all about eating sh**t. You can chose the crap you know, learn to season it better. Or you can risk trying some new crap, which might initially taste good because it's new, but eventually it will wear off and you'll realize it's still crap. Even it's just sitting in your own crap.

And don't forget, we all crap and if you're in a relationship, your partner is also eating with your crap even if they aren't complaining. Maybe their tolerance is higher or they are able to keep themselves distracted enough to not be bothered. But its there. If your spouse doesn't see it, your kids certainly do. WE ALL HAVE IT.

That is the reality. Now, once you've accepted that eating other people's crap is part of existing...how can you manage without it making you sick?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in charge of 95%+ of the household admin and am the main breadwinner. I am constantly resentful bc I am always either working, doing admin or at best telling dh to do things bc he does not initiate the need to do or buy anything that needs to be bought or happen. He took ds to an 8th birthday party today while I took other dc on overnight for travel sport. I reminded him multiple times about party and that he would need a gift; he said he would get the gift. ds tells me this evening that they were late to the party bc dh overslept and had no gift so gave kid money in envelope.
yes dh has adhd. yes is on meds.
I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand.

Please tell me how I can raise my ADHD son (on meds) not to become like this. I am legitimately scared for his future partner and purposely trying to drop the rope now and help him care about anything, especially organization and hygiene. It's a challenge.

Anonymous wrote:I am in charge of 95%+ of the household admin and am the main breadwinner. I am constantly resentful bc I am always either working, doing admin or at best telling dh to do things bc he does not initiate the need to do or buy anything that needs to be bought or happen. He took ds to an 8th birthday party today while I took other dc on overnight for travel sport. I reminded him multiple times about party and that he would need a gift; he said he would get the gift. ds tells me this evening that they were late to the party bc dh overslept and had no gift so gave kid money in envelope.
yes dh has adhd. yes is on meds.
I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

I am going to weigh in as an adult with well managed and medicated ADHD - because I have done the work to get where I am and continuously maintain my progress. I also ask for help when I need it and give my spouse a heads up when I am struggling or if I am worried I will drop the ball on something he needs me to do.

Learning how your mind works and making adjustments to your environment, systems, or actions to better communicate, collaborate, and coordinate with your family and society in general is not “changing who you are”. Taking medication so you don’t get side tracked looking at items in the hall closet or start a random chore when you are supposed to leave for a BD party is not stifling your creativity and personal expression.
It’s a really immature and defeatist attitude to just shrug your shoulders and say “it’s who I am, I can’t help it”. But I understand why it’s easy to be defensive or shift blame when being called out because ADHD has a high correlation with rejection sensitivity. If you were shamed a lot as a kid for your ADHD tendencies, it’s comfortable and easy to just not do things you might screw up or to deflect / blame others when you do make mistakes or fall short of what was expected. If you think you might fail, it’s best not to try at all, right? Or if you think you might improve for a bit, but relapse under stress, it’s better to have never made the effort lest people be disappointed when you mess up again. Might as well keep the bar low while simultaneously declaring “It’s who I AM. YOU can’t change ME!” like a petulant teenager.

To make an analogy to weight. My body wants to be heavier than I prefer. I am genetically predisposed to be at a BMI of 28-32, 40-50 pounds over weight. I have fought this tendency my whole adult life. It is not changing who I am to consistently exercise and limit my portions in order stay “slightly overweight” instead of obese. It’s not “fair” that plenty of people achieve the same or leaner physiques with far less effort. It’s also not my naturally slim spouse’s responsibility to plan and prepare all my meals and only allow healthy foods in our home to accommodate my issue. If he filled our house with junk food and then screamed at me if I gained weight, that would be cruel. It is kind of him to be aware of my issue and make time for me to exercise and to eat ice cream or treats without announcing it or offering me any. I am who I am and he is not asking me to change. He is being respectful and making small accommodations to help me leverage the systems and structures I am responsible for creating and maintaining.

Actually, the analogous situation being discussed is one in which you are fine with your weight, or even unaware that you are overweight. And yet your spouse thinks you’re a failure and a loser for not doing the work to be thin, rather than merely overweight. (Haven’t you heard of Ozempic?)

For you, overweight is good enough and it’s difficult for you to maintain. But for your spouse, only *thin* is good enough and overweight is the same as obese, and if you won’t work even harder than you already are then you’re a crappy partner.

That's not analogous unless the person's weight is directly impacting their partner beyond reasonable accommodations. Weight and executive function are not the same thing. You can be 40lbs overweight and still be a committed partner and involved parent even if you are doing nothing to lose the weight.

There could be situations where extra weight is inhibiting someone's ability to fully participate in family life -- perhaps if the added weight is leading to being very sedentary or not wanting to be social -- then it would be reasonable for their partner to say "hey it bothers me that you don't seem to want to play with the kids or do things outside with them or participate in events at school or church that I thought we valued as a family." That's not the same as saying "lose the damn weight I don't care how hard it is." It's okay to ask your partner to fulfill their part of your partnership even if doing so is harder for them due to a disability or issue beyond their control.

In OP's case the situation her DH is happy with is not showing up for her or her kids. I don't know if he's happy with his ADHD management or what he's doing to address it if anything. But within their marriage he has unilaterally decided he is okay with having his wife do all the work for their kids and household. That's not acceptable and not something to be sympathetic towards even if you ARE sympathetic towards his executive functioning issues.

Is making no effort to be sexually attractive to your partner showing up for your partner, though? I would argue that it is not.

I’m sure you think he should be attracted to her anyway. Being overweight should be good enough for him. OP’s husband probably thinks getting the kid to the party, albeit late, with a crappy cash gift but a gift no less should be good enough.

(And once again, she did not do any work in this situation. He did the work, he just didn’t do it very well. So for all of you saying he is “leaving everything for her to do” - you are literally just making that up.)

OP says that she does 95% of all the childcare and household admin. She then gives an example if the quality if work her DH turns in on his 5% and it's pitiful. So no one is making anything up-- the premise of the thread is that OP's DH doesn't do jack squat.

You know what isn't attractive? A spouse who can barely roll out if bed in order to take his son to a birthday party and then shoves some cash in an envelope as a gift. I'd take middle aged weight gain over being a lazy $hit any day of the week.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

I am going to weigh in as an adult with well managed and medicated ADHD - because I have done the work to get where I am and continuously maintain my progress. I also ask for help when I need it and give my spouse a heads up when I am struggling or if I am worried I will drop the ball on something he needs me to do.

Learning how your mind works and making adjustments to your environment, systems, or actions to better communicate, collaborate, and coordinate with your family and society in general is not “changing who you are”. Taking medication so you don’t get side tracked looking at items in the hall closet or start a random chore when you are supposed to leave for a BD party is not stifling your creativity and personal expression.
It’s a really immature and defeatist attitude to just shrug your shoulders and say “it’s who I am, I can’t help it”. But I understand why it’s easy to be defensive or shift blame when being called out because ADHD has a high correlation with rejection sensitivity. If you were shamed a lot as a kid for your ADHD tendencies, it’s comfortable and easy to just not do things you might screw up or to deflect / blame others when you do make mistakes or fall short of what was expected. If you think you might fail, it’s best not to try at all, right? Or if you think you might improve for a bit, but relapse under stress, it’s better to have never made the effort lest people be disappointed when you mess up again. Might as well keep the bar low while simultaneously declaring “It’s who I AM. YOU can’t change ME!” like a petulant teenager.

To make an analogy to weight. My body wants to be heavier than I prefer. I am genetically predisposed to be at a BMI of 28-32, 40-50 pounds over weight. I have fought this tendency my whole adult life. It is not changing who I am to consistently exercise and limit my portions in order stay “slightly overweight” instead of obese. It’s not “fair” that plenty of people achieve the same or leaner physiques with far less effort. It’s also not my naturally slim spouse’s responsibility to plan and prepare all my meals and only allow healthy foods in our home to accommodate my issue. If he filled our house with junk food and then screamed at me if I gained weight, that would be cruel. It is kind of him to be aware of my issue and make time for me to exercise and to eat ice cream or treats without announcing it or offering me any. I am who I am and he is not asking me to change. He is being respectful and making small accommodations to help me leverage the systems and structures I am responsible for creating and maintaining.

Actually, the analogous situation being discussed is one in which you are fine with your weight, or even unaware that you are overweight. And yet your spouse thinks you’re a failure and a loser for not doing the work to be thin, rather than merely overweight. (Haven’t you heard of Ozempic?)

For you, overweight is good enough and it’s difficult for you to maintain. But for your spouse, only *thin* is good enough and overweight is the same as obese, and if you won’t work even harder than you already are then you’re a crappy partner.

That's not analogous unless the person's weight is directly impacting their partner beyond reasonable accommodations. Weight and executive function are not the same thing. You can be 40lbs overweight and still be a committed partner and involved parent even if you are doing nothing to lose the weight.

There could be situations where extra weight is inhibiting someone's ability to fully participate in family life -- perhaps if the added weight is leading to being very sedentary or not wanting to be social -- then it would be reasonable for their partner to say "hey it bothers me that you don't seem to want to play with the kids or do things outside with them or participate in events at school or church that I thought we valued as a family." That's not the same as saying "lose the damn weight I don't care how hard it is." It's okay to ask your partner to fulfill their part of your partnership even if doing so is harder for them due to a disability or issue beyond their control.

In OP's case the situation her DH is happy with is not showing up for her or her kids. I don't know if he's happy with his ADHD management or what he's doing to address it if anything. But within their marriage he has unilaterally decided he is okay with having his wife do all the work for their kids and household. That's not acceptable and not something to be sympathetic towards even if you ARE sympathetic towards his executive functioning issues.

Is making no effort to be sexually attractive to your partner showing up for your partner, though? I would argue that it is not.

I’m sure you think he should be attracted to her anyway. Being overweight should be good enough for him. OP’s husband probably thinks getting the kid to the party, albeit late, with a crappy cash gift but a gift no less should be good enough.

(And once again, she did not do any work in this situation. He did the work, he just didn’t do it very well. So for all of you saying he is “leaving everything for her to do” - you are literally just making that up.)

Here’s our MO:
If a sitter did it would she be fired? Yes

If a housekeeper left that mess would she be fired? Yes

If the accountant forgot to file our return wouldn’t be fired? Yes

Then you are fired go hire and pay someone competitive to do the weekend childcare, picking up after you, and processing mail on time.

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Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Did you actually think this needed explaining? Everyone understands what you’re saying: accept it or leave. And that accepting it will empower her to leave. That may work for you. But for many other posters, pointing out the inequality of her situation (and reminding her that she’s seeing it clearly) and that she doesn’t need to accept it is a far more direct pathway to action. Maybe she’ll leave, maybe she won’t, but it’s a lot better than telling her to continue eating sh#t with a spoon or divorce.

Life is all about eating sh**t. You can chose the crap you know, learn to season it better. Or you can risk trying some new crap, which might initially taste good because it's new, but eventually it will wear off and you'll realize it's still crap. Even it's just sitting in your own crap.

And don't forget, we all crap and if you're in a relationship, your partner is also eating with your crap even if they aren't complaining. Maybe their tolerance is higher or they are able to keep themselves distracted enough to not be bothered. But its there. If your spouse doesn't see it, your kids certainly do. WE ALL HAVE IT.

That is the reality. Now, once you've accepted that eating other people's crap is part of existing...how can you manage without it making you sick?

Anonymous wrote:

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Did you actually think this needed explaining? Everyone understands what you’re saying: accept it or leave. And that accepting it will empower her to leave. That may work for you. But for many other posters, pointing out the inequality of her situation (and reminding her that she’s seeing it clearly) and that she doesn’t need to accept it is a far more direct pathway to action. Maybe she’ll leave, maybe she won’t, but it’s a lot better than telling her to continue eating sh#t with a spoon or divorce.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

I am going to weigh in as an adult with well managed and medicated ADHD - because I have done the work to get where I am and continuously maintain my progress. I also ask for help when I need it and give my spouse a heads up when I am struggling or if I am worried I will drop the ball on something he needs me to do.

Learning how your mind works and making adjustments to your environment, systems, or actions to better communicate, collaborate, and coordinate with your family and society in general is not “changing who you are”. Taking medication so you don’t get side tracked looking at items in the hall closet or start a random chore when you are supposed to leave for a BD party is not stifling your creativity and personal expression.
It’s a really immature and defeatist attitude to just shrug your shoulders and say “it’s who I am, I can’t help it”. But I understand why it’s easy to be defensive or shift blame when being called out because ADHD has a high correlation with rejection sensitivity. If you were shamed a lot as a kid for your ADHD tendencies, it’s comfortable and easy to just not do things you might screw up or to deflect / blame others when you do make mistakes or fall short of what was expected. If you think you might fail, it’s best not to try at all, right? Or if you think you might improve for a bit, but relapse under stress, it’s better to have never made the effort lest people be disappointed when you mess up again. Might as well keep the bar low while simultaneously declaring “It’s who I AM. YOU can’t change ME!” like a petulant teenager.

To make an analogy to weight. My body wants to be heavier than I prefer. I am genetically predisposed to be at a BMI of 28-32, 40-50 pounds over weight. I have fought this tendency my whole adult life. It is not changing who I am to consistently exercise and limit my portions in order stay “slightly overweight” instead of obese. It’s not “fair” that plenty of people achieve the same or leaner physiques with far less effort. It’s also not my naturally slim spouse’s responsibility to plan and prepare all my meals and only allow healthy foods in our home to accommodate my issue. If he filled our house with junk food and then screamed at me if I gained weight, that would be cruel. It is kind of him to be aware of my issue and make time for me to exercise and to eat ice cream or treats without announcing it or offering me any. I am who I am and he is not asking me to change. He is being respectful and making small accommodations to help me leverage the systems and structures I am responsible for creating and maintaining.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best thing an asd or adhd person can do is yes take meds and therapy and design symptoms, but then be kind and apologize.

You’re going to screw up. A lot. A lot more than the average person.

So be kind and apologetic about it. Or use humor Then you and everyone can move on. And the relationship can persevere.

Dont argue, dont be petulant, dont lie, dont give up all the time. Then you’re not doing your best. You’re playing games, being unreliable and dumping on others.

Not going to comment on being naturally 30 BMIs. Only if you’re a muscular big Samoan.

This would be great advice if the ADHD spouse was asking for advice.