Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Child Left Behind/Every Child Succeeds Act required school districts to jump through certain hoops each year involving high stakes state tests for students in grades and evaluating teachers in part based on student test score improvement.

Is there any evidence that requiring high stakes tests every year has actually improved student learning, though?

Because it's a LOT of testing. And causes a lot of disruption to the school day. We have the state tests, then the county benchmark tests. And kids with accommodations get their accommodations but not always at the same time as the classroom tests, so they sometimes miss some more instruction. Not just once a year, but many many times a year.

Is all this testing showing good results? Because if not, maybe we could get rid of all these mandatory tests and get rid of school report cards based on how well students perform on these tests.

(Except if we got rid of the school report cards, how would parents know where to buy a house?)

Or if the teachers can effectively teach the students? Testing holds schools accountable. Without them, parents will be kept further in the dark as to how much learning is really taking place relative to national standards. Whenever I hear educators rail against testing, what I really hear are educators who want to reduce oversight and transparency in their classrooms.

We should have test to see if parents can effectively parent anymore.

What would you recommend happening if parents fail your weird social norms test?

I think we all know this was sarcasm.... but you seem worried about this test.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Or if the teachers can effectively teach the students? Testing holds schools accountable. Without them, parents will be kept further in the dark as to how much learning is really taking place relative to national standards. Whenever I hear educators rail against testing, what I really hear are educators who want to reduce oversight and transparency in their classrooms.

Why give a test, if you aren't going to do anything differently with the results? We have years and years of data on our students starting at Kindergarten saying they are behind where they should be, but nothing for those students ever changes.

I don't have any problem with testing students to hold teachers accountable IF you let the teachers determine the curriculum and the method of teaching. As it is, my students do make substantial progress, but only because I pay lip service to the county selected teaching curriculum and methods, but actually teach in a way that I know to be effective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Child Left Behind/Every Child Succeeds Act required school districts to jump through certain hoops each year involving high stakes state tests for students in grades and evaluating teachers in part based on student test score improvement.

Is there any evidence that requiring high stakes tests every year has actually improved student learning, though?

Because it's a LOT of testing. And causes a lot of disruption to the school day. We have the state tests, then the county benchmark tests. And kids with accommodations get their accommodations but not always at the same time as the classroom tests, so they sometimes miss some more instruction. Not just once a year, but many many times a year.

Is all this testing showing good results? Because if not, maybe we could get rid of all these mandatory tests and get rid of school report cards based on how well students perform on these tests.

(Except if we got rid of the school report cards, how would parents know where to buy a house?)

Or if the teachers can effectively teach the students? Testing holds schools accountable. Without them, parents will be kept further in the dark as to how much learning is really taking place relative to national standards. Whenever I hear educators rail against testing, what I really hear are educators who want to reduce oversight and transparency in their classrooms.

We should have test to see if parents can effectively parent anymore.

What would you recommend happening if parents fail your weird social norms test?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Well, teachers work maybe 180 days a year and the ones my kid's have are out sick 3-4 days/month so at best work 160 days / year. I think it's hard for those of us who work closer to 250 days per year to feel badly.

So you are just jealous of a teacher’s schedule and therefore anything else a teacher has to say about their jobs is irrelevant because you are unable to cope with your jealousy.

I think what they're saying is it's hard to feel bad for people who only work half as much as everyone else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Well, teachers work maybe 180 days a year and the ones my kid's have are out sick 3-4 days/month so at best work 160 days / year. I think it's hard for those of us who work closer to 250 days per year to feel badly.

So you are just jealous of a teacher’s schedule and therefore anything else a teacher has to say about their jobs is irrelevant because you are unable to cope with your jealousy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Well, teachers work maybe 180 days a year and the ones my kid's have are out sick 3-4 days/month so at best work 160 days / year. I think it's hard for those of us who work closer to 250 days per year to feel badly.

My first few years of teaching, I was sick a lot. Plus, I had to go to a zillion meetings and trainings. I’m sure the parents of my students were pissed that I was out so much but what can you do? I was sick because of my sick students. I had the flu (even though I had the flu shot), pink eye, hand, foot and mouth, stomach viruses, etc. It was awful. I’m in year 10 now and I rarely get sick but I still have ridiculous trainings all year.

I think I know your answer, but if you had the choice would you:

1) not have the tranings at all;
2) have the trainings before the school year or on days when students were off (getting paid extra if you have to work extra days)
3) Keep things the way they are.

From a parent point of view, the trainings just compound our concern when a teacher needs to miss time for other reasons. I can't believe more isn't said about how bad it is to keep pulling teachers out of the classroom.

Most of the time, the trainings weren't useful. I went to a few that were useful but dragged on a lot longer than was necessary. The training for the phonics program was very useful and I thought it could've been extended to provide more practice. But many of the trainings were created by people who need to show that they are doing their job. That's it. I didn't actually need a deescalation training that lasted an entire day. It could've been an email and a few videos.

I wonder if the low pay for teachers incentivizes teachers to become administrators who then need to justify their jobs. Increase the pay to the best teachers, decrease to the worst administrators

I think the unions prevent good teachers being paid more than bad teachers.

Just increase pay to all teachers, and weed out the bad teachers during the application period and the probationary period. With a competitive, professional wage and benefits, you will have numerous applicants for teaching positions -- after all, "they get summers off!!" so that's a huge enticement.

How to you weed out bad teachers when they’re new and they’ve never taught? And what about burn out? I accept that it’s a hard job with a high burnout rate, do you not?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Well, teachers work maybe 180 days a year and the ones my kid's have are out sick 3-4 days/month so at best work 160 days / year. I think it's hard for those of us who work closer to 250 days per year to feel badly.

So you are just jealous of a teacher’s schedule and therefore anything else a teacher has to say about their jobs is irrelevant because you are unable to cope with your jealousy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread would have been better served by saying "I need to complain about how overworked I feel" and then go and do so. But it is phrased as "I need YOU to understand how overworked I feel" and trust me, we know you feel overworked. Partly because many of us also feel overworked.

I'm the OP. I couldn't phrase it that way because I am not a teacher. I am just a school parent that is embarrassed by many other parents who are pretty obnoxious and condescending to teachers and helping administrators to drive teachers from the profession. I see some of the best teachers, who my children have enjoyed having, leaving the profession because of how abusive a significantly large subset of parents behave. And I have a ton of friends who are teachers and listening to their grievances, upsets me.

ok, then direct your ire at specific people, who you say are parents. You just sound whiny when you say that "no one" acknowledges something, when there are pages and pages of people figuring out how to thank teachers.

You sound sanctimonious and awful, and unnecessarily fuel the parent v. teacher fighting. Stop it.

I bet this PP is exactly one of the parents OP was talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Well, teachers work maybe 180 days a year and the ones my kid's have are out sick 3-4 days/month so at best work 160 days / year. I think it's hard for those of us who work closer to 250 days per year to feel badly.

My first few years of teaching, I was sick a lot. Plus, I had to go to a zillion meetings and trainings. I’m sure the parents of my students were pissed that I was out so much but what can you do? I was sick because of my sick students. I had the flu (even though I had the flu shot), pink eye, hand, foot and mouth, stomach viruses, etc. It was awful. I’m in year 10 now and I rarely get sick but I still have ridiculous trainings all year.

I think I know your answer, but if you had the choice would you:

1) not have the tranings at all;
2) have the trainings before the school year or on days when students were off (getting paid extra if you have to work extra days)
3) Keep things the way they are.

From a parent point of view, the trainings just compound our concern when a teacher needs to miss time for other reasons. I can't believe more isn't said about how bad it is to keep pulling teachers out of the classroom.

Most of the time, the trainings weren't useful. I went to a few that were useful but dragged on a lot longer than was necessary. The training for the phonics program was very useful and I thought it could've been extended to provide more practice. But many of the trainings were created by people who need to show that they are doing their job. That's it. I didn't actually need a deescalation training that lasted an entire day. It could've been an email and a few videos.

I wonder if the low pay for teachers incentivizes teachers to become administrators who then need to justify their jobs. Increase the pay to the best teachers, decrease to the worst administrators

I think the unions prevent good teachers being paid more than bad teachers.

Just increase pay to all teachers, and weed out the bad teachers during the application period and the probationary period. With a competitive, professional wage and benefits, you will have numerous applicants for teaching positions -- after all, "they get summers off!!" so that's a huge enticement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

What? We don't get any paid vacation time. Most teachers work a 190 day contract and they work 190 days. We don't get paid vacation at all. I do get one paid personal day per year and a certain number of sick days.

What do you think “paid vacation time” is? That’s what your personal day is.

That sounds like very little, and it is. Except you also get holidays and many schools breaks off. That’s when other people end up using their paid time off.

Teachers don’t get as many holidays off as Feds do, which is a huge percentage of DCUM.

Looking at the MCPS calendar, teachers get 22 days off during the year, not counting early release days. That’s a lot more than feds.

That's 22 days PLUS endless summer vacation

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Well, teachers work maybe 180 days a year and the ones my kid's have are out sick 3-4 days/month so at best work 160 days / year. I think it's hard for those of us who work closer to 250 days per year to feel badly.

My first few years of teaching, I was sick a lot. Plus, I had to go to a zillion meetings and trainings. I’m sure the parents of my students were pissed that I was out so much but what can you do? I was sick because of my sick students. I had the flu (even though I had the flu shot), pink eye, hand, foot and mouth, stomach viruses, etc. It was awful. I’m in year 10 now and I rarely get sick but I still have ridiculous trainings all year.

I think I know your answer, but if you had the choice would you:

1) not have the tranings at all;
2) have the trainings before the school year or on days when students were off (getting paid extra if you have to work extra days)
3) Keep things the way they are.

From a parent point of view, the trainings just compound our concern when a teacher needs to miss time for other reasons. I can't believe more isn't said about how bad it is to keep pulling teachers out of the classroom.

Most of the time, the trainings weren't useful. I went to a few that were useful but dragged on a lot longer than was necessary. The training for the phonics program was very useful and I thought it could've been extended to provide more practice. But many of the trainings were created by people who need to show that they are doing their job. That's it. I didn't actually need a deescalation training that lasted an entire day. It could've been an email and a few videos.

I wonder if the low pay for teachers incentivizes teachers to become administrators who then need to justify their jobs. Increase the pay to the best teachers, decrease to the worst administrators

I think the unions prevent good teachers being paid more than bad teachers.

Just increase pay to all teachers, and weed out the bad teachers during the application period and the probationary period. With a competitive, professional wage and benefits, you will have numerous applicants for teaching positions -- after all, "they get summers off!!" so that's a huge enticement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Well, teachers work maybe 180 days a year and the ones my kid's have are out sick 3-4 days/month so at best work 160 days / year. I think it's hard for those of us who work closer to 250 days per year to feel badly.

My first few years of teaching, I was sick a lot. Plus, I had to go to a zillion meetings and trainings. I’m sure the parents of my students were pissed that I was out so much but what can you do? I was sick because of my sick students. I had the flu (even though I had the flu shot), pink eye, hand, foot and mouth, stomach viruses, etc. It was awful. I’m in year 10 now and I rarely get sick but I still have ridiculous trainings all year.

I think I know your answer, but if you had the choice would you:

1) not have the tranings at all;
2) have the trainings before the school year or on days when students were off (getting paid extra if you have to work extra days)
3) Keep things the way they are.

From a parent point of view, the trainings just compound our concern when a teacher needs to miss time for other reasons. I can't believe more isn't said about how bad it is to keep pulling teachers out of the classroom.

My school district has mostly moved to having (paid) evening meetings for training, instead of in person requiring teachers to get a substitute. They only moved to this due to lack of subs, I believe. I prefer the evening meetings to leaving the classroom.