Cream rises to the top. If the child is not cream, it will not rise to the top regardless age or the ages of the other children in the classroom.

Dead intellectual weight sinks to the bottom regardless of age. A dummie at 5 remains a dummie at 12 without a major change in strategy or work habit. This has nothing to do with the age of the child sitting at the desk across from the dummie.

Anonymous wrote:I never said the older kid was dumber. As a matter of fact, I say the older kid is usually perfectly avergage or above average which makes the decision to redshirt him all the more frustrating. I get annoyed with parents who get excited that their 6 year old kid excels at doing 5 year old work.

Again, this is not directed to the small % of redshirt parents who have a developmentally challenged kid. It's for vast majority of redshirt parents looking to make their kid look better/feel better by dominating a younger group of kids.

I'm really tired of this "developmentally challenged" thing, though I guess its an improvement over "developmentally delayed." First of all, you really don't know what kind of challenges another child has (unless you ask, like PP did). They aren't always apparent, especially because when the child does start school, they have matured and whatever the reason for waiting is gone. Second, the point is essentially "if there is something wrong with your child its OK, because they won't be competing against mine anyway." Sometimes there's no diagnosis. Sometimes the child simply isn't ready.

And, please, provide any evidence of children "dominating" the others. Again, it just smacks of a competitive approach and some fear that someone is trying to get away with something. I have a high schooler at a private school. I've seen lots of kids who were younger and who were older over the years and NONE dominated because they were older. NONE.

And those of you who fear being cheated out of something, what about the advice to just find a school that doesn't do this. Seriously. They get to make whatever rules they want, you get to decide if you will go there AS IS.

Again, none of the ire is directed at summer birthday children. If the cut off is Sept 1, then the issue is with the parents who are holding their Jan-May birthdays back.

Do you know anything about population distribution to assume that all 5-year-olds are the same? Can one have overlapping distributions between 5, 6 and 7-year-olds?

The ignorance on this board is astounding. All these gifted, 99.9 percentile children, have dumb parents with low IQs. And even these low IQs will distribute in Bell shape fashion!

As 5-year-olds are all the developmentally identical, physically, physiologically, intellectually and psychsocially I suspect we can assume that they will menstrate or masculinate (testosterone) and all have growth spurts (physical and intellectual) or fascial hair at the same point in time. The genetic and physiologic playing field now "equal" my dearest and fairest child will now be number one in the classroom.

If every kid is May - May and it's enforced by the school, that is wonderful. Nothing wronmg with a 12 mopnth age span. It's the "dinosaurs" that are 18+ months older than peer group with which I take exception---especially when they are bright, social and athletic kids. BTW, I do belive that most of the responsibility for redshirting abuses lay at the feet of administrators that allow it.

I was 2 to 3 years younger than the kids in my educational classes throughout. I did not have a problem with this and neither did my parents.
And, it does not present a problem for both my kids with many children 18 months older than them going into 5th and 2nd Grades. I have not witnessed abuse on the part of the administrators in this regard. It appears that others may have a different experience or opinion on this matter than you. I suggest you find a school with a tight 12 month boundary around the kids your children are allowed to school with in the classroom. If you can't, I'm afraid tough luck. In future, I wonder how your children will deal with reporting to a younger supervisor or boss in the workplace?

Anonymous wrote:Another example that may help clarify what a dinoaur is---"Gee, it's great to see your 11 1/2 year old, 145 lb. 4th grader was picked to be a captain for kick ball again. He's such a natural leader!"

(1) Obviously a huge exaggeration about age and size, and (2) I really don't think they do the picking captains for kickball thing anymore. Have you been around 4th grade recently?

But, hey, if its so important to you, your DS can be captain. Go at it.

I believe the potential harm comes from teachers comparing children in the early elementery years. Some of the younger, less-experienced teachers without children of their own can, IMO, tend to compare apples to oranges thinking they are comparing apples to apples. A parent who doesn't know better can end up thinking that their child should be writing paragraphs in 1st grade. I tried, unsuccessfully, to talk a parent out of having her child "tested" because the child wasn't keeping pace with an advanced curriculum. There was nothing wrong with her child but she felt pressured by the school to "make sure" there was nothing wrong by doing this expensive testing. Her child hated it. I'm afraid she made her child feel like there was something "wring" when there wasn't. It was a waste of thousands of dollars and left the family feeling angry and confused.

Another example that may help clarify what a dinoaur is---"Gee, it's great to see your 11 1/2 year old, 145 lb. 4th grader was picked to be a captain for kick ball again. He's such a natural leader!"

A dinosaur--as in "very old and very big". For example, "Thanks for sharing with all of us that your 12 year old, 5 1/2 feet tall, 4th grader did well on his test! You must be so proud!"

wow, kids are now dinosaurs! What kind of dinosaurs, can someone be more specific.
I want my kid to grow up to be a bronchiosaurus!

(was that the one with wings?)

If every kid is May - May and it's enforced by the school, that is wonderful. Nothing wronmg with a 12 mopnth age span. It's the "dinosaurs" that are 18+ months older than peer group with which I take exception---especially when they are bright, social and athletic kids. BTW, I do belive that most of the responsibility for redshirting abuses lay at the feet of administrators that allow it.

Anonymous wrote:I never said the older kid was dumber. As a matter of fact, I say the older kid is usually perfectly avergage or above average which makes the decision to redshirt him all the more frustrating. I get annoyed with parents who get excited that their 6 year old kid excels at doing 5 year old work.

Again, this is not directed to the small % of redshirt parents who have a developmentally challenged kid. It's for vast majority of redshirt parents looking to make their kid look better/feel better by dominating a younger group of kids.

Then are you directing it a parents of summer birthday boys who are at schools where parents are transparently told before submitting applications that over half (and a growing number) of summer birthday boys are redshirted and that, while it is done on a case-by-case basis, they should expect that their child will likely be advised to be redshirted? Maybe the schools are saying that, at their school they feel that the work in a particular grade is sufficiently advanced to be appropriate for somewhat older kids. This is what we heard at our son's school when we considered applying for him for pre-K starting at age 4, at an open house, with nobody having met him. Parents know (or should know by researching) going in that the class has older kids, and can decide for themselves whether to have their child be on the older side, the younger side, or go elsewhere. I don't want my kid to dominate anyone. I do, however, trust that his school knows what it's doing in class placement. And FWIW, all of the kids in his class (though not in his grade) were born within a May to May year, so nobody with any dinosaurs (!) in the group.

I never said the older kid was dumber. As a matter of fact, I say the older kid is usually perfectly avergage or above average which makes the decision to redshirt him all the more frustrating. I get annoyed with parents who get excited that their 6 year old kid excels at doing 5 year old work.

Again, this is not directed to the small % of redshirt parents who have a developmentally challenged kid. It's for vast majority of redshirt parents looking to make their kid look better/feel better by dominating a younger group of kids.

Not if the older child is dumber than the younger kid as you all assert.

Anonymous wrote:And the converse...those putting a dinosaur in a classroom of younger children will not be smarter, the leader, more alpha or a star.

Stardom is not the entitlement of the older child. One must earn it!

But it's easier if the redshirted kid is older than all of his peers