Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The best option would be to combine both. The Magnet program automatically admits, for example, all 98-99+ percentile children on a Merit basis; but also adds, say X slots on an 85th percentile "equity" basis.

I agree with this suggestion. I believe they are no longer able use race as a category (right? can someone more knowledgeable correct me if I'm wrong?), but I wonder why they can't do this with FARMS status.

If you are 85% and FARMS you're in. If you're non-FARMS, you need to be in 99+ percentile. Why can't they do that?

Sounds like a good idea now, but once kids become aware of this, and then view a classmate as a FARMS recipient, go figure... Educational policy should not be dictated by parents overly obsessed with raising the most academically competitive student.

Wait, what? I actually don't understand what you're saying. How is PP's suggestion an example ed policy being "dictated by parents overly obsessed with raising the most academically competitive student."

Also, I'm not sure why other kids being aware of this is particularly different than kids being aware of the phenomenon of affirmative action. If you think your privileged kid isn't aware of his privilege and how it's made his academic path easier, starting before he was even born, then that's your failure. Similarly, if you think your kid would be unkind toward other kids because they're poor, that's also something you need to fix.

To wit, education policy should not be dictated by the fact that some parents have raised a**holes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The best option would be to combine both. The Magnet program automatically admits, for example, all 98-99+ percentile children on a Merit basis; but also adds, say X slots on an 85th percentile "equity" basis.

I agree with this suggestion. I believe they are no longer able use race as a category (right? can someone more knowledgeable correct me if I'm wrong?), but I wonder why they can't do this with FARMS status.

If you are 85% and FARMS you're in. If you're non-FARMS, you need to be in 99+ percentile. Why can't they do that?

Sounds like a good idea now, but once kids become aware of this, and then view a classmate as a FARMS recipient, go figure... Educational policy should not be dictated by parents overly obsessed with raising the most academically competitive student.

Anonymous wrote:

The best option would be to combine both. The Magnet program automatically admits, for example, all 98-99+ percentile children on a Merit basis; but also adds, say X slots on an 85th percentile "equity" basis.

I agree with this suggestion. I believe they are no longer able use race as a category (right? can someone more knowledgeable correct me if I'm wrong?), but I wonder why they can't do this with FARMS status.

If you are 85% and FARMS you're in. If you're non-FARMS, you need to be in 99+ percentile. Why can't they do that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No the ones who will win are MCPS leaders who will brag they improved the demographics of the magnet programs, get a write up in the NYTs and be able to ask for more money. I don’t see anyone who wins with this strategy except the bureaucracy.

OMG that's so sneaky and they'll get huge incentive bonuses for this too!

Does that make it double-sneaky or sneaky-squared?

Cubed even!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is depressing, and none of the kids are winning except the white ones.

Don't fret. There won't be any white kids in MCPS in 10 years.

I love all these drama queen posts.

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is depressing, and none of the kids are winning except the white ones.

Don't fret. There won't be any white kids in MCPS in 10 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No the ones who will win are MCPS leaders who will brag they improved the demographics of the magnet programs, get a write up in the NYTs and be able to ask for more money. I don’t see anyone who wins with this strategy except the bureaucracy.

OMG that's so sneaky and they'll get huge incentive bonuses for this too!

Does that make it double-sneaky or sneaky-squared?

Anonymous wrote:No the ones who will win are MCPS leaders who will brag they improved the demographics of the magnet programs, get a write up in the NYTs and be able to ask for more money. I don’t see anyone who wins with this strategy except the bureaucracy.

OMG that's so sneaky and they'll get huge incentive bonuses for this too!

Anonymous wrote:No the ones who will win are MCPS leaders who will brag they improved the demographics of the magnet programs, get a write up in the NYTs and be able to ask for more money. I don’t see anyone who wins with this strategy except the bureaucracy.

Touche.

No the ones who will win are MCPS leaders who will brag they improved the demographics of the magnet programs, get a write up in the NYTs and be able to ask for more money. I don’t see anyone who wins with this strategy except the bureaucracy.

This whole thread is depressing, and none of the kids are winning except the white ones.

This appears to be the big divide right here. Regular people believe the magnets are there to push the county's best kids as far as they can go so those kids can go on to do things like cure Covid, land people on Mars, etc. Progressives believe the magnets are there to save individual children. They want the magnet programs to be an escape for certain poor kids. And that's just nuts.

NP. You hit the nail on the head. There is a difference between an "equity" educational agenda and an "equality" educational agenda. I tried to post this for discussion, but someone took it down?

Equality = everyone is treated the same exact way, regardless of need or any other individual difference. The opposite of Equality is Discrimination. I discriminate against you when your race, skin color, national origin, ethnicity, etc. is used to eliminate you from something you're qualified for.

Equity = everyone is provided with what they need to succeed. The opposite of Equity is Oppression. I oppress you when I don't give you the resources necessary to succeed.

How does this apply to the MCPS Magnet program?

If the magnet is "best-of-the-best" regardless of race, skin color, or national origin; then it is promoting "equality" amongst children and does not discriminate. When race, skin color, or national origin is used to remove children from the program, that is "discrimination" against the children removed.

If the magnet is "saving individual children" (ex. due to FARMS status, racial imbalance, etc) then it is promoting "equity" for those children. To the extent it removes or disallows opportunities for other children, the program "oppresses" by not providing the resources needed for those children to thrive and succeed.

The best option would be to combine both. The Magnet program automatically admits, for example, all 98-99+ percentile children on a Merit basis; but also adds, say X slots on an 85th percentile "equity" basis.

However, this is not what MCPS does. The current program discriminates against and oppresses the most qualified children.

Feel free to argue with the logic, but it is what it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This appears to be the big divide right here. Regular people believe the magnets are there to push the county's best kids as far as they can go so those kids can go on to do things like cure Covid, land people on Mars, etc. Progressives believe the magnets are there to save individual children. They want the magnet programs to be an escape for certain poor kids. And that's just nuts.

No, that's just you.

"The county's best kids," ew.

I'm sorry that word triggered you How would you describe the kids who should be admitted into the magnet programs?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

Yes, I agree that the magnet programs should be reserved for the kids who are BOTH intellectually capable AND academically prepared to benefit from the offering. The kids who are learning English should focus on learning English and if they are gifted, they will have plenty of opportunities to have a successful high school record and be recruited by high level colleges. Their now much firmer foundation in English will help them succeed more fully in college as well.

So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL and wish to exclude? Do you understand that's racist?

It could also be argued that students whose parents can afford outside enrichment will be fine regardless of these programs and should be excluded also.

I think in your rush to be a white savior, you invented "So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL" because I find no evidence of PP saying or even hinting at that.

DP. Really? The question asked was about "Hispanic students." And the PP's answer was all about "kids who are learning English."

You have to read the entire 24 pages to understand what was being argued.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

Yes, I agree that the magnet programs should be reserved for the kids who are BOTH intellectually capable AND academically prepared to benefit from the offering. The kids who are learning English should focus on learning English and if they are gifted, they will have plenty of opportunities to have a successful high school record and be recruited by high level colleges. Their now much firmer foundation in English will help them succeed more fully in college as well.

So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL and wish to exclude? Do you understand that's racist?

It could also be argued that students whose parents can afford outside enrichment will be fine regardless of these programs and should be excluded also.

You are having a problem. This thread was discussing ESOL as a weight on the scale for magnet admission. No one said anything about all Hispanic students being in ESOL. The debate is over whether ESOL students should appropriately be placed in magnet programs as part of an effort to weight the programs racially. Obviously not all ESOL students are Hispanic either. Please step back from your assumption that many people are racist.

There was also a statistic above that says only 18.7% of Hispanic students are proficient in MS math. Obviously some portion of that 18.7% will be prepared for enrichment/advanced math. However, the large majority are obviously not prepared for participation in the magnets. And in the long run, they are better served by solidifying their preparation in the basics so that they can be successful later.