Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

But like…why. Princeton is practically a leader in every field of study it offers and is an undergraduate based institution.

Princeton has a PA considerably higher than Duke. Its engineering school is the best in the Ivy League along with Cornell.

I will never understand the love affair with Duke. It’s supposedly a top ten school but it has very few disciplines ranked as highly as its undergraduate rating.

Mystifying to me as well.

Even in the south, Vanderbilt is often seen as the preeminent school in the region.

And I'd certainly put Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Penn, and Berkeley ahead of Duke. Because all of those schools are genuinely very good in numerous fields. Whereas Duke has ???? Basketball?

It depends on how you look at it. Hopkins is stronger than Duke academically. But the kids choose to go to Duke. So which school should be called "better"?

Dubious assertion that Hopkins is stronger than Duke academically. They’re on par.

With that said, the notion that the rankings reflect some sort of pure academic ranking is reductionist. Chicago crushes Hopkins academically, but last year’s ranking doesn’t reflect that, suggesting that rankings reflect factors other than pure academics alone. To that point, the fact that “the kids choose to go to Duke” must represent other factors, too.

To support your point, which is “better” can be reflected somewhat in pure academic rankings but also somewhat in where students choose to attend.

for undergrad what is duke better at? Hopkins engineering is better along with bio, chem, physics and multiple humanities programs and international relations. For duke, maybe economics and that’s it. Same argument for hopkins engineering vs chicago which doesnt even have engineering

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people say one school is so much better than another school “academically”… what does that even mean? Especially at this level of universities? Genuine question.

It means they have popular notions about a college and just assume their evidence (US NEWS ranking) to be true.

Anonymous wrote:When people say one school is so much better than another school “academically”… what does that even mean? Especially at this level of universities? Genuine question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

But like…why. Princeton is practically a leader in every field of study it offers and is an undergraduate based institution.

Princeton has a PA considerably higher than Duke. Its engineering school is the best in the Ivy League along with Cornell.

I will never understand the love affair with Duke. It’s supposedly a top ten school but it has very few disciplines ranked as highly as its undergraduate rating.

Mystifying to me as well.

Even in the south, Vanderbilt is often seen as the preeminent school in the region.

And I'd certainly put Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Penn, and Berkeley ahead of Duke. Because all of those schools are genuinely very good in numerous fields. Whereas Duke has ???? Basketball?

It depends on how you look at it. Hopkins is stronger than Duke academically. But the kids choose to go to Duke. So which school should be called "better"?

Dubious assertion that Hopkins is stronger than Duke academically. They’re on par.

With that said, the notion that the rankings reflect some sort of pure academic ranking is reductionist. Chicago crushes Hopkins academically, but last year’s ranking doesn’t reflect that, suggesting that rankings reflect factors other than pure academics alone. To that point, the fact that “the kids choose to go to Duke” must represent other factors, too.

To support your point, which is “better” can be reflected somewhat in pure academic rankings but also somewhat in where students choose to attend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

But like…why. Princeton is practically a leader in every field of study it offers and is an undergraduate based institution.

Princeton has a PA considerably higher than Duke. Its engineering school is the best in the Ivy League along with Cornell.

I will never understand the love affair with Duke. It’s supposedly a top ten school but it has very few disciplines ranked as highly as its undergraduate rating.

Mystifying to me as well.

Even in the south, Vanderbilt is often seen as the preeminent school in the region.

And I'd certainly put Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Penn, and Berkeley ahead of Duke. Because all of those schools are genuinely very good in numerous fields. Whereas Duke has ???? Basketball?

It depends on how you look at it. Hopkins is stronger than Duke academically. But the kids choose to go to Duke. So which school should be called "better"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

But like…why. Princeton is practically a leader in every field of study it offers and is an undergraduate based institution.

Princeton has a PA considerably higher than Duke. Its engineering school is the best in the Ivy League along with Cornell.

I will never understand the love affair with Duke. It’s supposedly a top ten school but it has very few disciplines ranked as highly as its undergraduate rating.

Mystifying to me as well.

Even in the south, Vanderbilt is often seen as the preeminent school in the region.

And I'd certainly put Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Penn, and Berkeley ahead of Duke. Because all of those schools are genuinely very good in numerous fields. Whereas Duke has ???? Basketball?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

But like…why. Princeton is practically a leader in every field of study it offers and is an undergraduate based institution.

Princeton has a PA considerably higher than Duke. Its engineering school is the best in the Ivy League along with Cornell.

I will never understand the love affair with Duke. It’s supposedly a top ten school but it has very few disciplines ranked as highly as its undergraduate rating.

Mystifying to me as well.

Even in the south, Vanderbilt is often seen as the preeminent school in the region.

And I'd certainly put Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Penn, and Berkeley ahead of Duke. Because all of those schools are genuinely very good in numerous fields. Whereas Duke has ???? Basketball?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

But like…why. Princeton is practically a leader in every field of study it offers and is an undergraduate based institution.

Princeton has a PA considerably higher than Duke. Its engineering school is the best in the Ivy League along with Cornell.

I will never understand the love affair with Duke. It’s supposedly a top ten school but it has very few disciplines ranked as highly as its undergraduate rating.

Mystifying to me as well.

Even in the south, Vanderbilt is often seen as the preeminent school in the region.

And I'd certainly put Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Penn, and Berkeley ahead of Duke. Because all of those schools are genuinely very good in numerous fields. Whereas Duke has ???? Basketball?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

But like…why. Princeton is practically a leader in every field of study it offers and is an undergraduate based institution.

Princeton has a PA considerably higher than Duke. Its engineering school is the best in the Ivy League along with Cornell.

I will never understand the love affair with Duke. It’s supposedly a top ten school but it has very few disciplines ranked as highly as its undergraduate rating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academically Yale is the weakest of HYPSM and I could see it being grouped more with Penn, Duke, Columbia

Duke is the outlier here. Its PA scores have always been lower than HYPSM as well as Penn and Columbia.

There’s no connection between PA scores and the placement of a schools ranking. What a weak argument.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

I guess I consider different criteria than USNWR.
I guess I would put princeton a bit ahead of yale but certainly behind HMS and probably Caltech as well.
I put Princeton and yale in the same category as columbia... maybe even penn and duke

But like…why. Princeton is practically a leader in every field of study it offers and is an undergraduate based institution.