Anonymous
01/30/2020 14:21
Subject: Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I found this WaPo article very telling about what will happen to remove zoning laws to allow ADUs on properties. The argument that removing SF zoning will miraculously result in an increase of affordable housing simply isn't realistic. In addition to duplexes there is also the added argument of covering garages, etc into accessory units for rent that will become more affordable.
This couple in DC converted their garage into a 500 sq ft one bedroom rental unit. The tenant is paying $1975 per month, which apparently is also the top end of the apartment rental rate for that neighborhood. There is nothing affordable about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/enduring-less-ado-with-an-adu/2020/01/29/2b720074-06f1-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html?itid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-real-estate%3Ahomepage%2Fcard-ans
Nobody has said that removing uniplex zoning will miraculous result in an increase of affordable housing. Also, I don't think that the rent for one garage-turned-apartment added to the housing supply, is necessarily a definitive answer.
Actually in Alexandria the city officials are making the argument that one way to increase affordable housing stock is to allow ADUs to be built and that can be accomplished by removing single family zoning laws. People are making those theories, educate yourself. And while no, your cute statement about this ONE unit, this article is an example of what critics to the theory have been saying all along. Allowing ADUs to be built will not translate to an increase in affordable housing. The owners are motivated to get top dollar and there are so many potential renters willing to pay it. So it does increase the housing supply, but not the affordable housing supply.
Well, yes. Adding ADUs will add to the supply of housing, which will make housing more affordable, and yes, you often do have to change the zoning laws in order to allow ADUs.
The opponents have themselves a nice little paradox here.
1. We oppose market solutions (allowing ADUs, duplexes, etc.,) because poor people won't be able to afford to live there.
2. We oppose non-market solutions (government/non-profits building housing that poor people will be able to afford to live in) because they're social engineering and don't work.
Super weird you’re making these assumptions and stereotypes. I don’t believe #1 will work nor do I believe it is a “market solution” based on my career in this industry. And I am not, nor did I ever state, that I was opposed to non-market solutions. Where and why are you putting 1 with 2? In fact, I have stated several times on this thread, that #2 is the only proven and effective way to increase affordable housing. I’ve spent my career doing it. The government needs to spend the money to build it and run it.
Your attempt to rewrite some narrative fails. So bizarre.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 14:08
Subject: Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I found this WaPo article very telling about what will happen to remove zoning laws to allow ADUs on properties. The argument that removing SF zoning will miraculously result in an increase of affordable housing simply isn't realistic. In addition to duplexes there is also the added argument of covering garages, etc into accessory units for rent that will become more affordable.
This couple in DC converted their garage into a 500 sq ft one bedroom rental unit. The tenant is paying $1975 per month, which apparently is also the top end of the apartment rental rate for that neighborhood. There is nothing affordable about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/enduring-less-ado-with-an-adu/2020/01/29/2b720074-06f1-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html?itid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-real-estate%3Ahomepage%2Fcard-ans
Nobody has said that removing uniplex zoning will miraculous result in an increase of affordable housing. Also, I don't think that the rent for one garage-turned-apartment added to the housing supply, is necessarily a definitive answer.
Actually in Alexandria the city officials are making the argument that one way to increase affordable housing stock is to allow ADUs to be built and that can be accomplished by removing single family zoning laws. People are making those theories, educate yourself. And while no, your cute statement about this ONE unit, this article is an example of what critics to the theory have been saying all along. Allowing ADUs to be built will not translate to an increase in affordable housing. The owners are motivated to get top dollar and there are so many potential renters willing to pay it. So it does increase the housing supply, but not the affordable housing supply.
Well, yes. Adding ADUs will add to the supply of housing, which will make housing more affordable, and yes, you often do have to change the zoning laws in order to allow ADUs.
The opponents have themselves a nice little paradox here.
1. We oppose market solutions (allowing ADUs, duplexes, etc.,) because poor people won't be able to afford to live there.
2. We oppose non-market solutions (government/non-profits building housing that poor people will be able to afford to live in) because they're social engineering and don't work.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 13:32
Subject: Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I found this WaPo article very telling about what will happen to remove zoning laws to allow ADUs on properties. The argument that removing SF zoning will miraculously result in an increase of affordable housing simply isn't realistic. In addition to duplexes there is also the added argument of covering garages, etc into accessory units for rent that will become more affordable.
This couple in DC converted their garage into a 500 sq ft one bedroom rental unit. The tenant is paying $1975 per month, which apparently is also the top end of the apartment rental rate for that neighborhood. There is nothing affordable about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/enduring-less-ado-with-an-adu/2020/01/29/2b720074-06f1-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html?itid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-real-estate%3Ahomepage%2Fcard-ans
Nobody has said that removing uniplex zoning will miraculous result in an increase of affordable housing. Also, I don't think that the rent for one garage-turned-apartment added to the housing supply, is necessarily a definitive answer.
Actually in Alexandria the city officials are making the argument that one way to increase affordable housing stock is to allow ADUs to be built and that can be accomplished by removing single family zoning laws. People are making those theories, educate yourself. And while no, your cute statement about this ONE unit, this article is an example of what critics to the theory have been saying all along. Allowing ADUs to be built will not translate to an increase in affordable housing. The owners are motivated to get top dollar and there are so many potential renters willing to pay it. So it does increase the housing supply, but not the affordable housing supply.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 13:30
Subject: Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I found this WaPo article very telling about what will happen to remove zoning laws to allow ADUs on properties. The argument that removing SF zoning will miraculously result in an increase of affordable housing simply isn't realistic. In addition to duplexes there is also the added argument of covering garages, etc into accessory units for rent that will become more affordable.
This couple in DC converted their garage into a 500 sq ft one bedroom rental unit. The tenant is paying $1975 per month, which apparently is also the top end of the apartment rental rate for that neighborhood. There is nothing affordable about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/enduring-less-ado-with-an-adu/2020/01/29/2b720074-06f1-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html?itid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-real-estate%3Ahomepage%2Fcard-ans
I find the argument for ADU's very confusing.
If anything, they will make buying a home even more expensive.
If someone puts an ADU in their backyard, they are adding $300,000 overnight to the price of their home -- and that home will then be out of reach for more people hoping to buy.
Sure, that ADU adds to the rental stock but it simultaneously pushes home ownership further out of reach, which increases the gap between the haves and have nots.
The sale price of the property will be higher, but there will also be income associated with the property.
It's the same as people buying triple deckers, moving into one unit, and using the rent from the other two units to pay the mortgage.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 13:12
Subject: Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:I found this WaPo article very telling about what will happen to remove zoning laws to allow ADUs on properties. The argument that removing SF zoning will miraculously result in an increase of affordable housing simply isn't realistic. In addition to duplexes there is also the added argument of covering garages, etc into accessory units for rent that will become more affordable.
This couple in DC converted their garage into a 500 sq ft one bedroom rental unit. The tenant is paying $1975 per month, which apparently is also the top end of the apartment rental rate for that neighborhood. There is nothing affordable about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/enduring-less-ado-with-an-adu/2020/01/29/2b720074-06f1-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html?itid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-real-estate%3Ahomepage%2Fcard-ans
I find the argument for ADU's very confusing.
If anything, they will make buying a home even more expensive.
If someone puts an ADU in their backyard, they are adding $300,000 overnight to the price of their home -- and that home will then be out of reach for more people hoping to buy.
Sure, that ADU adds to the rental stock but it simultaneously pushes home ownership further out of reach, which increases the gap between the haves and have nots.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 12:51
Subject: Re:Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
I'll just say it crystal clear
Adding more 500k plus condos/dwellings is Upper NW doesn't help the housing situation in this area at all
It's not pure supply and demand. You need housing at the upper middle and lower price points. Adding more upper level housing doesn't help the majority of the actual residents of DC.
Adding more 500k plus condos/dwellings is Upper NW doesn't help the housing situation in this area at all
It's not pure supply and demand. You need housing at the upper middle and lower price points. Adding more upper level housing doesn't help the majority of the actual residents of DC.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 12:44
Subject: Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:I found this WaPo article very telling about what will happen to remove zoning laws to allow ADUs on properties. The argument that removing SF zoning will miraculously result in an increase of affordable housing simply isn't realistic. In addition to duplexes there is also the added argument of covering garages, etc into accessory units for rent that will become more affordable.
This couple in DC converted their garage into a 500 sq ft one bedroom rental unit. The tenant is paying $1975 per month, which apparently is also the top end of the apartment rental rate for that neighborhood. There is nothing affordable about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/enduring-less-ado-with-an-adu/2020/01/29/2b720074-06f1-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html?itid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-real-estate%3Ahomepage%2Fcard-ans
Nobody has said that removing uniplex zoning will miraculous result in an increase of affordable housing. Also, I don't think that the rent for one garage-turned-apartment added to the housing supply, is necessarily a definitive answer.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 12:36
Subject: Re:Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Is there an end point? Any research around the ideal number of people living "in the city"? Seems a little sci fi to me...
The short answer is that yes, the theoretical literature on city structure considers this. If you're interested, you can find some citations in my long post a couple of pages back. Backing out a precise answer (e.g. "the ideal population of the DC metro region is X") would require additional assumptions beyond what these published papers make, and it's hard to pin down precisely what those assumed values should be (hence people don't publish such calculations). But, the structure exists to do them.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 12:21
Subject: Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
I found this WaPo article very telling about what will happen to remove zoning laws to allow ADUs on properties. The argument that removing SF zoning will miraculously result in an increase of affordable housing simply isn't realistic. In addition to duplexes there is also the added argument of covering garages, etc into accessory units for rent that will become more affordable.
This couple in DC converted their garage into a 500 sq ft one bedroom rental unit. The tenant is paying $1975 per month, which apparently is also the top end of the apartment rental rate for that neighborhood. There is nothing affordable about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/enduring-less-ado-with-an-adu/2020/01/29/2b720074-06f1-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html?itid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-real-estate%3Ahomepage%2Fcard-ans
This couple in DC converted their garage into a 500 sq ft one bedroom rental unit. The tenant is paying $1975 per month, which apparently is also the top end of the apartment rental rate for that neighborhood. There is nothing affordable about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/enduring-less-ado-with-an-adu/2020/01/29/2b720074-06f1-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html?itid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-real-estate%3Ahomepage%2Fcard-ans
Anonymous
01/30/2020 07:12
Subject: Re:Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Also reminds of the 3rd world where folks cram the cities /flee the countryside...but the cities arent exactly lovely places to live, well planned or functioning
LOL - yup that is where DC is headed!
Cleveland Park is going to be a Favela by 2025 - better sell your house now!
To me! I'll buy it as a favor to you, for cheap, because I know you don't want to live in a favela.
Anonymous
01/30/2020 00:36
Subject: Re:Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Also reminds of the 3rd world where folks cram the cities /flee the countryside...but the cities arent exactly lovely places to live, well planned or functioning
LOL - yup that is where DC is headed!
Cleveland Park is going to be a Favela by 2025 - better sell your house now!
Anonymous
01/29/2020 21:40
Subject: Re:Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Also reminds of the 3rd world where folks cram the cities /flee the countryside...but the cities arent exactly lovely places to live, well planned or functioning
D.C.'s current population density is lower than that of Berkeley or Santa Monica, Calif., both of which are... basically suburbs.
Anonymous
01/29/2020 20:33
Subject: Re:Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Also reminds of the 3rd world where folks cram the cities /flee the countryside...but the cities arent exactly lovely places to live, well planned or functioning
Anonymous
01/29/2020 20:32
Subject: Re:Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Is there an end point? Any research around the ideal number of people living "in the city"? Seems a little sci fi to me...
Anonymous
01/29/2020 17:49
Subject: Re:Is there a coherent argument that loosening zoning laws will lead to affordable housing in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Or you could just renovate what's there? It seems like this is gentrification of gentrified areas basically? Like gentrification on steroids? More residences, newer residences, better residences. Where does it end? A tower of mcmansions teetering on top of one another?
If you just renovate what's there, you don't increase the number of people living in the neighborhood/the city at all, though, you just make the already expensive houses nicer and thus, more expensive.