Anonymous
Post 06/08/2019 15:25     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:I’m so on board with this.

There should be a timed test and a no-time-limit year (where you can’t look ahead, and if you need to leave the center, the past Qs are now sealed)

The sat score should be read as 1300T or 1150T; or 1420U, or 1270U. Let the colleges tease out what students they want with those indicators.


Devils advocate is a personal exp with my roommate and friend:
I worked in my college testing center. A great job. Part of it was proctoring hundreds of students at a time. They came and went as they wanted to start and finish their tests.

My friend always said she needed extra time for tests in high school. Never thought about it much.

But one day she was in the testing center on a day I was working. She took about 3 hours on a test that I noticed others were taking an hour. I think she really processes and agonized over each question. I think her ability to make unique connections between ideas also distracted her.

There were no time limits on tests (I think there were 2% where the prof stipulated a 90 minute limit etc)

She and I got similar grades. She might have more As due to easier major / harder worker.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2019 15:19     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
I’m so on board with this.

There should be a timed test and a no-time-limit year (where you can’t look ahead, and if you need to leave the center, the past Qs are now sealed)

The sat score should be read as 1300T or 1150T; or 1420U, or 1270U. Let the colleges tease out what students they want with those indicators.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2019 15:09     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:it must be so nice to believe you know what is best not only for your child, but for all children. be grateful you don't have to deal with these issues if your child doesn't have special needs. the resentment that you have and are potentially passing onto your kids isn't helpful for anyone.


*1,000,009
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2019 14:49     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
I agree, op.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2019 14:49     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
This thread is crazy but also highlights some real problems. I have a junior who took the ACT just now - just got home. He didn't finish - he is smart but a bit of a slow worker - he will be fine and do well, he doesn't qualify (and didn't ask) for any accommodations. But he would have done better with more time.

And I know a similarly situated kid at a private school --- no issues, good grades. The first week of his junior year, his private school determined he might be eligible for more time and guided the parents to do the appropriate evaluations and got the ACT board to give him extended time. He is probably the same as my son - a good student - it takes him longer. He isn't on medication, he was getting basically straight As.

I think the honest debate is about that kid versus my kid.

And I do believe there are kids who really need/deserve more time - my younger DC has long established ADHD, gets extended time at school since 2nd grade and will likely qualify for extended time. In my view, that's different.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2019 14:24     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
I have an idea. In the essays our kids submit, they can mention offhand that while 1/3 or more of their classmates got extra time on their tests, they did not. If we can’t make the wealthy cheaters declare their extra time, we can find a way to distinguish those students who didn’t cheat the system.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2019 18:10     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Just give 2 tests - timed and untimed. And let scores indicate which tests were taken. Take both of kid wants to and report whichever test or both.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2019 17:30     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.


Um, I was with you until your penultimate sentence in your first paragraph. Our 14 y.o. DS was recently diagnosed with ADHD mild inattentive. He had a few problems in 6th grade but seemed to get on top of them for two years. Problems again in 8th, then a nosedive in 9th with teachers complaining about him - unprecedented in his school experience. School didn't think he should have a neuropsych eval. We did it anyways as we had never had teachers complain about his classroom presence. A diagnosis, medication, and learning supports has transformed the last quarter of DS' school year. I get that some folks game it, yet it is not uncommon that ADHD mild inattentive doesn't present in some students, especially boys, until late middle/early HS.


I agree with this, sort of. I think may ADHD parents, including myself, suspect ADHD or notice behaviors that in retrospect we see were ADHD from a young age. My third grader with a very messy desk who melted down when we turned screens off wasn’t diagnosed until middle school. But now I see that his ADHD behaviors were there in preschool. They were just called discipline problems and disorganization then.

But most kids— especially bright kids and especially boys— got a point where they can no longer compensate with smart and trying hard and it all falls apart. And your A kid is suddenly making Ds. It may be middle school, high school— or for kids who aren’t in DMV intense academic academic environments and just coast at the top of a podunk nowhere GS-2 with high FARMs and ESOL 2 APs classes offered bad school with much bigger issues— college. But it does eventually fall apart for many kids. And anti cod ally, and based on what guidance counselors at several schools have said, they watch for it and see it mostly when kids bump up to the next level of academic demands. In FCPS, it soften 3rd (especially with AAP admissions), 7th (MS starts), or 9th. My own ADHD kid went from running academic circles around his peers to us getting correspondence from the school about resources for kids, struggling academically at the beginning of 7th (2 Ds first quarter before diagnosis) the beginning of MS.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2019 17:19     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is just idiocy to claim that extra time wouldn’t help non-LD kids. Sure, there are times when a kid could look at a problem for all the time in the world and still not get it, but for the vast majority of kids, unless the test is super short, having the time to think through each question and double-check their answers will certainly benefit them to some degree.


Sure they may get 1 or 2 more questions right but it is not going to really make a difference.

I don't care if everybody gets untimed tests... actually I am fine with getting rid of SAT and ACT all together, because their mission has gone from identifying kids ready for college to making money off strivers trying to get into top schools.


now who are these strivers?
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2019 17:18     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.


Um, I was with you until your penultimate sentence in your first paragraph. Our 14 y.o. DS was recently diagnosed with ADHD mild inattentive. He had a few problems in 6th grade but seemed to get on top of them for two years. Problems again in 8th, then a nosedive in 9th with teachers complaining about him - unprecedented in his school experience. School didn't think he should have a neuropsych eval. We did it anyways as we had never had teachers complain about his classroom presence. A diagnosis, medication, and learning supports has transformed the last quarter of DS' school year. I get that some folks game it, yet it is not uncommon that ADHD mild inattentive doesn't present in some students, especially boys, until late middle/early HS.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2019 08:26     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:It is just idiocy to claim that extra time wouldn’t help non-LD kids. Sure, there are times when a kid could look at a problem for all the time in the world and still not get it, but for the vast majority of kids, unless the test is super short, having the time to think through each question and double-check their answers will certainly benefit them to some degree.


Sure they may get 1 or 2 more questions right but it is not going to really make a difference.

I don't care if everybody gets untimed tests... actually I am fine with getting rid of SAT and ACT all together, because their mission has gone from identifying kids ready for college to making money off strivers trying to get into top schools.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2019 08:20     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
I'm sure Lori Loughlin would agree with you, OP.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2019 08:12     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:It is just idiocy to claim that extra time wouldn’t help non-LD kids. Sure, there are times when a kid could look at a problem for all the time in the world and still not get it, but for the vast majority of kids, unless the test is super short, having the time to think through each question and double-check their answers will certainly benefit them to some degree.


I agree that extra time would help non-LD kids. I disagree with parents of LD kids we advocate against extra time for everyone because they think it will disadvantage their kids. Everyone should be given time to finish. The problem is that's not going to happen because the cost of administering the test would increase, for example, because proctors would have to be paid for more hours. There would also be issues with keeping everyone in the room until the last person is done, which is what is required now. Anyway, I think LD kids should get extra time and I also think extra time would help many non-LD kids. Extra time for all likely won't happen, though.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2019 06:24     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous I suppose he can find a job that has accommodations for his SN too. [/quote wrote:

Actually yes. Most of us use calculators during our every day jobs. Most of us can get up and go to the bathroom when the urge hits. Most of us can use a computer or laptop that has software that we can set to our liking (eg how big the font is, if we want word prediction set on, spell check...). Most of us have someone in the office look over written work before it is sent out. Most of us choose a job that accentuates our talents and skills sets and diminishes our weaknesses.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2019 21:22     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
It is just idiocy to claim that extra time wouldn’t help non-LD kids. Sure, there are times when a kid could look at a problem for all the time in the world and still not get it, but for the vast majority of kids, unless the test is super short, having the time to think through each question and double-check their answers will certainly benefit them to some degree.