Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:42     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:Thanks for sharing. I raised the original question and agree very much. I then wonder why the county does not just account for the SES status of individual families, rather than the schools' SES category. If SES is considered acceptable, what's wrong with factoring in the former than the latter?


Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is what I don't understand: Why is it that the SES factor even matters for the CES selection process, when the pool of kids from multiple elementary schools are supposed to fall under same SES category (of of the three)? This is particularly the case for the Cold Spring CES. Any insight?


Anonymous wrote:Last year, they didn't get the desired result which was a CES population that mirrors the demographics (by race which is what they care about) with the cohort model so they are fiddling around with the way they pick to get more URMs in the magnets.


You’re. Lcorrect. The schools assign to one center or another have similar SES so it has little impact.


Depends on the cluster. I think it made a difference for Oak View. I think Sligo Creek feeds into this CES and it is less than 10% FARMS/10% ESOL. I have many friends who live there and they are UMC professionals with six-figure incomes. In that same catchment area there are a huge number of Title I schools like Rolling Terrace which is 72% FARMS, 52% ESOL.


That will never happen, PP. It's too complicated, too expensive to do, and probably will be contested in court, and people will also try to fudge the numbers.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:37     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Thanks for sharing. I raised the original question and agree very much. I then wonder why the county does not just account for the SES status of individual families, rather than the schools' SES category. If SES is considered acceptable, what's wrong with factoring in the former than the latter?


Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is what I don't understand: Why is it that the SES factor even matters for the CES selection process, when the pool of kids from multiple elementary schools are supposed to fall under same SES category (of of the three)? This is particularly the case for the Cold Spring CES. Any insight?


Anonymous wrote:Last year, they didn't get the desired result which was a CES population that mirrors the demographics (by race which is what they care about) with the cohort model so they are fiddling around with the way they pick to get more URMs in the magnets.


You’re. Lcorrect. The schools assign to one center or another have similar SES so it has little impact.


Depends on the cluster. I think it made a difference for Oak View. I think Sligo Creek feeds into this CES and it is less than 10% FARMS/10% ESOL. I have many friends who live there and they are UMC professionals with six-figure incomes. In that same catchment area there are a huge number of Title I schools like Rolling Terrace which is 72% FARMS, 52% ESOL.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:34     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Even in Chevy Chase you have schools that are almost 0% FARMS like Westbrook Elementary and then there is Luxmanor which is 17% FARMS.


by MCPS standards this puts them in the same band

The distinctions are likely regular, focus, title-1


Have they said what the cut offs are? I thought the middle was moderately impacted. In addition they haven't been clear about what criteria they are using and they might use "ever FARMS" versus "FARMS." "Ever FARMS" is usually a bigger number.


The SES bands were applied to schools according to their FAQ, but it doesn't provide details about their composition.

A student's personal FAMRS status is considered regardless of school, but not for the MCPS score.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:33     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:Respectfully, you need to stop. MCPS has been very open about their goals and it has been addressed in countless meetings and reports. They have defined diversity as having to do with race and socio-economic status, and their goal is to close that gap.

I don't disagree that there are some parents crying foul and blaming the diversity goal for negative results but it's all about your perception of the purpose of the programs and who "deserves" or "needs" admission. No one is wrong.

Some would argue that the 99th percentile rich kid fairly beat out the 89th percentile FARMS kid and should be admitted. My view is that we need to account for hardships so maybe the 89th percentile FARMS kid is more deserving and "needs" it more. But what about a 50th percentile FARMS kid?


I have a teen boy who did not get in magnets and a daughter who did.

I hate the idea that a selective, advanced academic program should consider anything other than academics. Gender, race, or proxies for those, should never be considered. Special programs should not be used as a tool to correct society's ills, when federal, state and local government should (and do, to a large extent) take it upon themselves to bolster upward mobility. I have the same opinion about college admissions.



Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:31     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:

Although there may be a focus school competing with a title-1 school in catchment or another these cases are mostly rare.


The catchment area for the Drew CES includes 18 elementary schools: 3 are Title 1, 8 are focus schools, and 7 aren't in either of those programs.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:30     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:Respectfully, you need to stop. MCPS has been very open about their goals and it has been addressed in countless meetings and reports. They have defined diversity as having to do with race and socio-economic status, and their goal is to close that gap.

I don't disagree that there are some parents crying foul and blaming the diversity goal for negative results but it's all about your perception of the purpose of the programs and who "deserves" or "needs" admission. No one is wrong.

Some would argue that the 99th percentile rich kid fairly beat out the 89th percentile FARMS kid and should be admitted. My view is that we need to account for hardships so maybe the 89th percentile FARMS kid is more deserving and "needs" it more. But what about a 50th percentile FARMS kid?


Well, they've failed horribly, if this was their goal. Look at the demographics of Blair SMACS or TPMS magnet sometime.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:29     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Even in Chevy Chase you have schools that are almost 0% FARMS like Westbrook Elementary and then there is Luxmanor which is 17% FARMS.


by MCPS standards this puts them in the same band

The distinctions are likely regular, focus, title-1


Have they said what the cut offs are? I thought the middle was moderately impacted. In addition they haven't been clear about what criteria they are using and they might use "ever FARMS" versus "FARMS." "Ever FARMS" is usually a bigger number.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:26     Subject: CES Decision Letters
I don't think you're right. MCPS has about 130 elementary schools total but it doesn't seem to have a lot of Title I schools. They are not all grouped in the same catchment area.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/dtecps/title1/schools.aspx
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:21     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is what I don't understand: Why is it that the SES factor even matters for the CES selection process, when the pool of kids from multiple elementary schools are supposed to fall under same SES category (of of the three)? This is particularly the case for the Cold Spring CES. Any insight?


Anonymous wrote:Last year, they didn't get the desired result which was a CES population that mirrors the demographics (by race which is what they care about) with the cohort model so they are fiddling around with the way they pick to get more URMs in the magnets.


You’re. Lcorrect. The schools assign to one center or another have similar SES so it has little impact.


Depends on the cluster. I think it made a difference for Oak View. I think Sligo Creek feeds into this CES and it is less than 10% FARMS/10% ESOL. I have many friends who live there and they are UMC professionals with six-figure incomes. In that same catchment area there are a huge number of Title I schools like Rolling Terrace which is 72% FARMS, 52% ESOL.


Although there may be a focus school competing with a title-1 school in catchment or another these cases are mostly rare.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:19     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Respectfully, you need to stop. MCPS has been very open about their goals and it has been addressed in countless meetings and reports. They have defined diversity as having to do with race and socio-economic status, and their goal is to close that gap.

I don't disagree that there are some parents crying foul and blaming the diversity goal for negative results but it's all about your perception of the purpose of the programs and who "deserves" or "needs" admission. No one is wrong.

Some would argue that the 99th percentile rich kid fairly beat out the 89th percentile FARMS kid and should be admitted. My view is that we need to account for hardships so maybe the 89th percentile FARMS kid is more deserving and "needs" it more. But what about a 50th percentile FARMS kid?


Yes, and some of those 99%ers are getting there partly because of enrichment and even test prep. Back in the day of the HGC, Cold Spring was a hotbed of test prep.


Doesn't Doc Li drop off and pickup at Cold Spring?
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:19     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:Even in Chevy Chase you have schools that are almost 0% FARMS like Westbrook Elementary and then there is Luxmanor which is 17% FARMS.


by MCPS standards this puts them in the same band

The distinctions are likely regular, focus, title-1
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:18     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:Respectfully, you need to stop. MCPS has been very open about their goals and it has been addressed in countless meetings and reports. They have defined diversity as having to do with race and socio-economic status, and their goal is to close that gap.

I don't disagree that there are some parents crying foul and blaming the diversity goal for negative results but it's all about your perception of the purpose of the programs and who "deserves" or "needs" admission. No one is wrong.

Some would argue that the 99th percentile rich kid fairly beat out the 89th percentile FARMS kid and should be admitted. My view is that we need to account for hardships so maybe the 89th percentile FARMS kid is more deserving and "needs" it more. But what about a 50th percentile FARMS kid?


Yes, and some of those 99%ers are getting there partly because of enrichment and even test prep. Back in the day of the HGC, Cold Spring was a hotbed of test prep.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:17     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Westbrook parent, Also this is one test and this test is not really very accurate since it's only a quick "screener." Kumon wouldn't help anyway as it's supposed to be a rough measure of IQ and your child's IQ if at 90 some percent is high enough that she can go to the best colleges, become a CEO and do anything she wants to do if she works hard.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:15     Subject: Re:CES Decision Letters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My child was rejected (64th percentile MCPS and 92th percentile National). Home school is Westbrook Elementary in Bethesda.

Out of curiosity, putting aside the CES process, what would you take away from these scores? Would you be worried about the 64th percentile, and perhaps try Kumon or similar outside of school?


This is what I don’t understand. This kid scored better than 92% of kids nationwide, and you’re talking about Kumon?? This type of pushing/pressure on a kid can’t be good. It just can’t.


Seriously, don't worry about the scores. Your kid is well above average even in a school that has one of the most educated populations in the whole country. They are doing great. Let them play and develop friendships, because, trust me, anxiety and social isolation will do more to interfere with their success in high school and college than whether they are scoring at 62% or 95% compared with their third grade peers.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2019 09:02     Subject: CES Decision Letters
Even in Chevy Chase you have schools that are almost 0% FARMS like Westbrook Elementary and then there is Luxmanor which is 17% FARMS.