I went to public (state) schools with diverse populations. I distinctly remember that in nearly every class, roughly half of the AAs were getting terrible grades. They would do poorly on tests, rarely do homework and end up with Ds and Fs. Yes, some AAs would do well. And some kids from other races would do poorly, but there was clearly a disparity.

Was it because AAs are less intelligent? No. You don't have to be smart to get good grades in a public K-12. You just have to study and do your homework! Why is it that some kids study and do their homework, and others do not? The answer is because their parents force them to! That is THE reason. Kids do not naturally want to study or do homework. You have to pressure them. Jewsish, Asian and UMC White kids are forced to do their homework and study. Their parents check their homework EVERY DAY and if they get bad grades, there is hell to pay. They ride their kids' asses for their entire childhood to make sure that they get good grades and get into decent schools because they know that this is hugely important. I can't express enough how much of a difference there is between a typical Jewish/Asian/UMC White household an a typical AA/Latino/Poor White household when it comes to the expectations that they put on their children for education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Same OP as above. I don't know, but I would also guess that it was strong - and for the same reason that the Jews had/have strong family units - survival.

But that begs the next question. Why have the Jews maintained their strong emphasis on intact families, yet in recent years there has been a breakdown iin intact black families. Any idea why?

Families were ripped apart and sold off, women raped by their masters or task-masters etc. The idea of a cohesive family unit among slaves is laughable if it wasn't so outrageous that you would even suggest it.

Jews faced that in Egypt, no?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Emulate them? Are you kidding? The Jewish people in this country would hate that. That would mean that all the top jobs at elite universities would be given to blacks and they would only promote other blacks. Most everyone in power in the media, banking, and Hollywood would be black. Harvard, Yale, etc would be mostly black. Jewish people will never let this happen. They may be only 2% of the population but they make damn sure they are the 1%. If anyone points out how Jews always look out first for other Jews especially in elite admissions they give you the one two punch and call you a Nazi. They say they are discriminated against and call the NAACP. Some rabbi had a fit that Princeton was not Jewish enough at 25%. What happened in Nazi Germany was horrible but plenty of non Jews lost their lives trying to defeat Hitler. In this country Jewish people have lived a life of privilege. It is a lie that Jews are smarter than African Americans.

The difference is this - that while the Holocaust and slavery broke apart families - separated men from women, husbands from wives, brothers from sisters - the Jewish culture, b/c the Holocaust period was shorter than slavery, could still focus on intact families. The family unit and the traditions surrounding a shared religion keep people together.

They're not privileged. That's a pretty sick statement, PP. It's called survival.

If, as you say, ". . . Jews always look out for other Jews . . . " you should be asking, "Why is this?" It's something to envy. But you sound jealous.

Remember that plenty of non-blacks helped fight against slavery, too. So what's your point there?

Agree, and let's not act as though the Jews suffered through a single four-year period of horrific treatment, and that was that. They've been persecuted, enslaved, and murdered going back 2000 years.

It all boils down to a strong family unit. Jews have it in spades.

Strong family units.
Yes, quite an essential element for acquisition and sustainment of success.
Tell me something...prior to the recent advent of implementing forensic science into our judicial system allowing evidence like DNA and gunshot residue to be considered thus preventing wrongful convictions, would you say there were a significant number of Jewish families ripped apart at the seams by unlawful and unjust imprisonment? Would you say there were many Jewish families torn asunder by racial violence?
Take your time before you answer. Let's go back to 1950...WWII is over Jews are getting settled and they're experiencing prejudice and discrimination...but are they being lynched? Are they getting arrested en masses and beaten and thrown in jail just for the color of their skin by officers sworn to protect and serve the people? During those pivotal formative years when Jews were advancing in education and acquiring wealth and strengthening their family units how many blacks do you suppose were being denied education and being denied the opportunity to attain wealth and how many blacks do you suppose were powerless to prevent the powers that be from dismantling their families and forcing them into a permanent underclass status?
Take your time.

I don't want to play Oppression Olympics anymore. It doesn't help anybody.

I know you don't want to respond to my comment.
At the end of the day you're more than welcome to stick out your chest and hold your head high.
By all means please do take pride in the accomplishments and achievements of Jews, especially considering the obstacles they've had to overcome it truly is remarkable and worthy of praise.
And with all due respect, I intend to do the exact same. There is nothing you can say that can deter me from sticking out my chest and holding my head high and believe me when I say that despite the tendency of some not unlike yourself who try to diminish and degrade blacks as being "lesser" I nonetheless take great pride in the accomplishments and achievements of African-Americans. ESPECIALLY considering the many obstacles that we've had to overcome and continue to wrestle with to this day.

No one is diminishing or degrading blacks. Blacks just have different strengths.

For example, there will never be a Jewish or Asian Serena Williams, Lebron, Jordan, usain bolt, mo Farrah, etc.

That will never ever ever happen.

Black men are also way better at sex.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Emulate them? Are you kidding? The Jewish people in this country would hate that. That would mean that all the top jobs at elite universities would be given to blacks and they would only promote other blacks. Most everyone in power in the media, banking, and Hollywood would be black. Harvard, Yale, etc would be mostly black. Jewish people will never let this happen. They may be only 2% of the population but they make damn sure they are the 1%. If anyone points out how Jews always look out first for other Jews especially in elite admissions they give you the one two punch and call you a Nazi. They say they are discriminated against and call the NAACP. Some rabbi had a fit that Princeton was not Jewish enough at 25%. What happened in Nazi Germany was horrible but plenty of non Jews lost their lives trying to defeat Hitler. In this country Jewish people have lived a life of privilege. It is a lie that Jews are smarter than African Americans.

The difference is this - that while the Holocaust and slavery broke apart families - separated men from women, husbands from wives, brothers from sisters - the Jewish culture, b/c the Holocaust period was shorter than slavery, could still focus on intact families. The family unit and the traditions surrounding a shared religion keep people together.

They're not privileged. That's a pretty sick statement, PP. It's called survival.

If, as you say, ". . . Jews always look out for other Jews . . . " you should be asking, "Why is this?" It's something to envy. But you sound jealous.

Remember that plenty of non-blacks helped fight against slavery, too. So what's your point there?

Agree, and let's not act as though the Jews suffered through a single four-year period of horrific treatment, and that was that. They've been persecuted, enslaved, and murdered going back 2000 years.

It all boils down to a strong family unit. Jews have it in spades.

Strong family units.
Yes, quite an essential element for acquisition and sustainment of success.
Tell me something...prior to the recent advent of implementing forensic science into our judicial system allowing evidence like DNA and gunshot residue to be considered thus preventing wrongful convictions, would you say there were a significant number of Jewish families ripped apart at the seams by unlawful and unjust imprisonment? Would you say there were many Jewish families torn asunder by racial violence?
Take your time before you answer. Let's go back to 1950...WWII is over Jews are getting settled and they're experiencing prejudice and discrimination...but are they being lynched? Are they getting arrested en masses and beaten and thrown in jail just for the color of their skin by officers sworn to protect and serve the people? During those pivotal formative years when Jews were advancing in education and acquiring wealth and strengthening their family units how many blacks do you suppose were being denied education and being denied the opportunity to attain wealth and how many blacks do you suppose were powerless to prevent the powers that be from dismantling their families and forcing them into a permanent underclass status?
Take your time.

I don't want to play Oppression Olympics anymore. It doesn't help anybody.

I know you don't want to respond to my comment.
At the end of the day you're more than welcome to stick out your chest and hold your head high.
By all means please do take pride in the accomplishments and achievements of Jews, especially considering the obstacles they've had to overcome it truly is remarkable and worthy of praise.
And with all due respect, I intend to do the exact same. There is nothing you can say that can deter me from sticking out my chest and holding my head high and believe me when I say that despite the tendency of some not unlike yourself who try to diminish and degrade blacks as being "lesser" I nonetheless take great pride in the accomplishments and achievements of African-Americans. ESPECIALLY considering the many obstacles that we've had to overcome and continue to wrestle with to this day.

I'm relatively new to this thread. Did someone say that AA's are "lesser"? Or are you just projecting that onto other people? What people are saying that is certain cultures take education more seriously than others. Or, maybe it would be more accurate to say that certain cultures are more effective at keeping their kids disciplined about school and more willing to push them to get good grades than others. AAs might take education "seriously," but I just don't think you realize how much more demanding the parents of jewish, asian and UMC whites are of their children when it comes to education.

The black concentration is half the Asian concentration at Harvard.

Any analysis of standardized testing score distribution shows clearly that a non- race based system would NOT enable that demographic enrollment mix.

If you are black and get a 1450 on the sat, you can walk into the Ivy League.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Emulate them? Are you kidding? The Jewish people in this country would hate that. That would mean that all the top jobs at elite universities would be given to blacks and they would only promote other blacks. Most everyone in power in the media, banking, and Hollywood would be black. Harvard, Yale, etc would be mostly black. Jewish people will never let this happen. They may be only 2% of the population but they make damn sure they are the 1%. If anyone points out how Jews always look out first for other Jews especially in elite admissions they give you the one two punch and call you a Nazi. They say they are discriminated against and call the NAACP. Some rabbi had a fit that Princeton was not Jewish enough at 25%. What happened in Nazi Germany was horrible but plenty of non Jews lost their lives trying to defeat Hitler. In this country Jewish people have lived a life of privilege. It is a lie that Jews are smarter than African Americans.

The difference is this - that while the Holocaust and slavery broke apart families - separated men from women, husbands from wives, brothers from sisters - the Jewish culture, b/c the Holocaust period was shorter than slavery, could still focus on intact families. The family unit and the traditions surrounding a shared religion keep people together.

They're not privileged. That's a pretty sick statement, PP. It's called survival.

If, as you say, ". . . Jews always look out for other Jews . . . " you should be asking, "Why is this?" It's something to envy. But you sound jealous.

Remember that plenty of non-blacks helped fight against slavery, too. So what's your point there?

Agree, and let's not act as though the Jews suffered through a single four-year period of horrific treatment, and that was that. They've been persecuted, enslaved, and murdered going back 2000 years.

It all boils down to a strong family unit. Jews have it in spades.

Why do Jews have a stronger family unit than AAs? And is that purely modern phenomena or did this culture/behavior start in the past?

I'm the PP who said that about the strong family unit, but I have no idea why. And as far as whether this behavior is modern or started in the past, I am guessing it was present in the past, as well. But now that I think about it - stream of consciousness here! - I bet it had to do with survival. They were so persecuted over the centuries that they found strength in family units.

That then begs the question, why do blacks not exhibit the same behavior? They too have been persecuted over the centuries, but we see - in modern times at least - a breakdown in the family unit. Interesting, no?

What was the AA family unit like during slavery?

Same OP as above. I don't know, but I would also guess that it was strong - and for the same reason that the Jews had/have strong family units - survival.

But that begs the next question. Why have the Jews maintained their strong emphasis on intact families, yet in recent years there has been a breakdown iin intact black families. Any idea why?

Who knows (I'm sure social scientists and historians do), but your improper use of the phrase "beg the question" makes me question your own commitment to education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Emulate them? Are you kidding? The Jewish people in this country would hate that. That would mean that all the top jobs at elite universities would be given to blacks and they would only promote other blacks. Most everyone in power in the media, banking, and Hollywood would be black. Harvard, Yale, etc would be mostly black. Jewish people will never let this happen. They may be only 2% of the population but they make damn sure they are the 1%. If anyone points out how Jews always look out first for other Jews especially in elite admissions they give you the one two punch and call you a Nazi. They say they are discriminated against and call the NAACP. Some rabbi had a fit that Princeton was not Jewish enough at 25%. What happened in Nazi Germany was horrible but plenty of non Jews lost their lives trying to defeat Hitler. In this country Jewish people have lived a life of privilege. It is a lie that Jews are smarter than African Americans.

The difference is this - that while the Holocaust and slavery broke apart families - separated men from women, husbands from wives, brothers from sisters - the Jewish culture, b/c the Holocaust period was shorter than slavery, could still focus on intact families. The family unit and the traditions surrounding a shared religion keep people together.

They're not privileged. That's a pretty sick statement, PP. It's called survival.

If, as you say, ". . . Jews always look out for other Jews . . . " you should be asking, "Why is this?" It's something to envy. But you sound jealous.

Remember that plenty of non-blacks helped fight against slavery, too. So what's your point there?

Agree, and let's not act as though the Jews suffered through a single four-year period of horrific treatment, and that was that. They've been persecuted, enslaved, and murdered going back 2000 years.

It all boils down to a strong family unit. Jews have it in spades.

Strong family units.
Yes, quite an essential element for acquisition and sustainment of success.
Tell me something...prior to the recent advent of implementing forensic science into our judicial system allowing evidence like DNA and gunshot residue to be considered thus preventing wrongful convictions, would you say there were a significant number of Jewish families ripped apart at the seams by unlawful and unjust imprisonment? Would you say there were many Jewish families torn asunder by racial violence?
Take your time before you answer. Let's go back to 1950...WWII is over Jews are getting settled and they're experiencing prejudice and discrimination...but are they being lynched? Are they getting arrested en masses and beaten and thrown in jail just for the color of their skin by officers sworn to protect and serve the people? During those pivotal formative years when Jews were advancing in education and acquiring wealth and strengthening their family units how many blacks do you suppose were being denied education and being denied the opportunity to attain wealth and how many blacks do you suppose were powerless to prevent the powers that be from dismantling their families and forcing them into a permanent underclass status?
Take your time.

I don't want to play Oppression Olympics anymore. It doesn't help anybody.

I know you don't want to respond to my comment.
At the end of the day you're more than welcome to stick out your chest and hold your head high.
By all means please do take pride in the accomplishments and achievements of Jews, especially considering the obstacles they've had to overcome it truly is remarkable and worthy of praise.
And with all due respect, I intend to do the exact same. There is nothing you can say that can deter me from sticking out my chest and holding my head high and believe me when I say that despite the tendency of some not unlike yourself who try to diminish and degrade blacks as being "lesser" I nonetheless take great pride in the accomplishments and achievements of African-Americans. ESPECIALLY considering the many obstacles that we've had to overcome and continue to wrestle with to this day.

NP. How was it in the 50's and 60's?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Emulate them? Are you kidding? The Jewish people in this country would hate that. That would mean that all the top jobs at elite universities would be given to blacks and they would only promote other blacks. Most everyone in power in the media, banking, and Hollywood would be black. Harvard, Yale, etc would be mostly black. Jewish people will never let this happen. They may be only 2% of the population but they make damn sure they are the 1%. If anyone points out how Jews always look out first for other Jews especially in elite admissions they give you the one two punch and call you a Nazi. They say they are discriminated against and call the NAACP. Some rabbi had a fit that Princeton was not Jewish enough at 25%. What happened in Nazi Germany was horrible but plenty of non Jews lost their lives trying to defeat Hitler. In this country Jewish people have lived a life of privilege. It is a lie that Jews are smarter than African Americans.

The difference is this - that while the Holocaust and slavery broke apart families - separated men from women, husbands from wives, brothers from sisters - the Jewish culture, b/c the Holocaust period was shorter than slavery, could still focus on intact families. The family unit and the traditions surrounding a shared religion keep people together.

They're not privileged. That's a pretty sick statement, PP. It's called survival.

If, as you say, ". . . Jews always look out for other Jews . . . " you should be asking, "Why is this?" It's something to envy. But you sound jealous.

Remember that plenty of non-blacks helped fight against slavery, too. So what's your point there?

Agree, and let's not act as though the Jews suffered through a single four-year period of horrific treatment, and that was that. They've been persecuted, enslaved, and murdered going back 2000 years.

It all boils down to a strong family unit. Jews have it in spades.

Why do Jews have a stronger family unit than AAs? And is that purely modern phenomena or did this culture/behavior start in the past?

I'm the PP who said that about the strong family unit, but I have no idea why. And as far as whether this behavior is modern or started in the past, I am guessing it was present in the past, as well. But now that I think about it - stream of consciousness here! - I bet it had to do with survival. They were so persecuted over the centuries that they found strength in family units.

That then begs the question, why do blacks not exhibit the same behavior? They too have been persecuted over the centuries, but we see - in modern times at least - a breakdown in the family unit. Interesting, no?

What was the AA family unit like during slavery?

Same OP as above. I don't know, but I would also guess that it was strong - and for the same reason that the Jews had/have strong family units - survival.

But that begs the next question. Why have the Jews maintained their strong emphasis on intact families, yet in recent years there has been a breakdown iin intact black families. Any idea why?

Slavery tore apart families.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/slavery/experience/family/history.html

The family breakdown is just in recent years?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, so you're saying the reason the Jews are so much more successful than blacks is because there is more prejudice against blacks. You seem unable to acknowledge that it has much to do with the Jews' emphasis on education and the value they place on strong family units. That's because that would place some of the responsibility on blacks themselves, which is a much-needed step to advancement.

Because African-Americans don't value family or education?

<= There aren't enough of either of these to express my WTF on this.

Don't be disingenuous. Asian, Jewish and upper-middle class white kids usually do their homework, study hard, get good grades and get into good schools. Why? Because their parents are usually hardcore about school and force them to. Kids from those backgrounds are under tons of pressure to do well in school. AAs, Latinos and poor/working-class whites have a much more lax attitude when it comes to education.

You could say that it's a class issue, but most Jews were poor/working class when they immigrated to the US, decades ago. A big part of it is cultural.

Maybe it has something to do with learning the Torah and becoming a man at 13 within the Jewish faith?

No. It has to do with the fact that if a Jewish (or Asian, or UMC White) kid comes home with a B+, his parents will blow their stack. It's not like this in most AA households.

Yes. A nice Jewish girl here, and I came home with a B in math. My father asked me why I didn't tell him I was "struggling" in math and ask to get help. And then I remember playing kickball, and my mom calling me in to "practice my math." Because of a B!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Same OP as above. I don't know, but I would also guess that it was strong - and for the same reason that the Jews had/have strong family units - survival.

But that begs the next question. Why have the Jews maintained their strong emphasis on intact families, yet in recent years there has been a breakdown iin intact black families. Any idea why?

Families were ripped apart and sold off, women raped by their masters or task-masters etc. The idea of a cohesive family unit among slaves is laughable if it wasn't so outrageous that you would even suggest it.

No. You misunderstand.

I'm not saying the families were intact. I'm saying the desire for intact family units was strong. We are talking about the values.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, so you're saying the reason the Jews are so much more successful than blacks is because there is more prejudice against blacks. You seem unable to acknowledge that it has much to do with the Jews' emphasis on education and the value they place on strong family units. That's because that would place some of the responsibility on blacks themselves, which is a much-needed step to advancement.

Because African-Americans don't value family or education?

<= There aren't enough of either of these to express my WTF on this.

Don't be disingenuous. Asian, Jewish and upper-middle class white kids usually do their homework, study hard, get good grades and get into good schools. Why? Because their parents are usually hardcore about school and force them to. Kids from those backgrounds are under tons of pressure to do well in school. AAs, Latinos and poor/working-class whites have a much more lax attitude when it comes to education.

You could say that it's a class issue, but most Jews were poor/working class when they immigrated to the US, decades ago. A big part of it is cultural.

Maybe it has something to do with learning the Torah and becoming a man at 13 within the Jewish faith?

No. It has to do with the fact that if a Jewish (or Asian, or UMC White) kid comes home with a B+, his parents will blow their stack. It's not like this in most AA households.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Emulate them? Are you kidding? The Jewish people in this country would hate that. That would mean that all the top jobs at elite universities would be given to blacks and they would only promote other blacks. Most everyone in power in the media, banking, and Hollywood would be black. Harvard, Yale, etc would be mostly black. Jewish people will never let this happen. They may be only 2% of the population but they make damn sure they are the 1%. If anyone points out how Jews always look out first for other Jews especially in elite admissions they give you the one two punch and call you a Nazi. They say they are discriminated against and call the NAACP. Some rabbi had a fit that Princeton was not Jewish enough at 25%. What happened in Nazi Germany was horrible but plenty of non Jews lost their lives trying to defeat Hitler. In this country Jewish people have lived a life of privilege. It is a lie that Jews are smarter than African Americans.

The difference is this - that while the Holocaust and slavery broke apart families - separated men from women, husbands from wives, brothers from sisters - the Jewish culture, b/c the Holocaust period was shorter than slavery, could still focus on intact families. The family unit and the traditions surrounding a shared religion keep people together.

They're not privileged. That's a pretty sick statement, PP. It's called survival.

If, as you say, ". . . Jews always look out for other Jews . . . " you should be asking, "Why is this?" It's something to envy. But you sound jealous.

Remember that plenty of non-blacks helped fight against slavery, too. So what's your point there?

Agree, and let's not act as though the Jews suffered through a single four-year period of horrific treatment, and that was that. They've been persecuted, enslaved, and murdered going back 2000 years.

It all boils down to a strong family unit. Jews have it in spades.

Strong family units.
Yes, quite an essential element for acquisition and sustainment of success.
Tell me something...prior to the recent advent of implementing forensic science into our judicial system allowing evidence like DNA and gunshot residue to be considered thus preventing wrongful convictions, would you say there were a significant number of Jewish families ripped apart at the seams by unlawful and unjust imprisonment? Would you say there were many Jewish families torn asunder by racial violence?
Take your time before you answer. Let's go back to 1950...WWII is over Jews are getting settled and they're experiencing prejudice and discrimination...but are they being lynched? Are they getting arrested en masses and beaten and thrown in jail just for the color of their skin by officers sworn to protect and serve the people? During those pivotal formative years when Jews were advancing in education and acquiring wealth and strengthening their family units how many blacks do you suppose were being denied education and being denied the opportunity to attain wealth and how many blacks do you suppose were powerless to prevent the powers that be from dismantling their families and forcing them into a permanent underclass status?
Take your time.

I don't want to play Oppression Olympics anymore. It doesn't help anybody.

Not PP, but without comparing let's just look at the paths each oppressed group has taken. You don't see any historical reasons - at all - why AAs may have struggled with education and family units?

Well, don't suck me back into Oppression Olympics, but I'd say - from a historical perspective - it's slavery. But that doesn't explain the high out-of-wedlock births now. The rate is much higher than a generation ago. Why?

Anonymous wrote:
Same OP as above. I don't know, but I would also guess that it was strong - and for the same reason that the Jews had/have strong family units - survival.

But that begs the next question. Why have the Jews maintained their strong emphasis on intact families, yet in recent years there has been a breakdown iin intact black families. Any idea why?

Families were ripped apart and sold off, women raped by their masters or task-masters etc. The idea of a cohesive family unit among slaves is laughable if it wasn't so outrageous that you would even suggest it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, so you're saying the reason the Jews are so much more successful than blacks is because there is more prejudice against blacks. You seem unable to acknowledge that it has much to do with the Jews' emphasis on education and the value they place on strong family units. That's because that would place some of the responsibility on blacks themselves, which is a much-needed step to advancement.

Because African-Americans don't value family or education?

<= There aren't enough of either of these to express my WTF on this.

Don't be disingenuous. Asian, Jewish and upper-middle class white kids usually do their homework, study hard, get good grades and get into good schools. Why? Because their parents are usually hardcore about school and force them to. Kids from those backgrounds are under tons of pressure to do well in school. AAs, Latinos and poor/working-class whites have a much more lax attitude when it comes to education.

You could say that it's a class issue, but most Jews were poor/working class when they immigrated to the US, decades ago. A big part of it is cultural.

Which is why African Americans are applying to college in such high numbers that they're denying spots to white applicants....oh wait.