Anonymous wrote:^^agree with pp that the "starter home" you purchased pre kids (who are now teens) is where your assets are.

Secondly, if your teens aren't ok with Target clothes and frugal living, tell them to get a job. I've been paying for my own clothes and entertainment since 14. Actually even earlier with my birthday money before I was old enough to work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of whiners here on this thread, and 3 different generations (boomers, X, and millenials) all seem pretty well represented in the woe-is-me-I-had-it-tougher-than-you club.

We are late 40s (don't know what category that puts us in, could someone please tell me?). We are doing less well economically than my parents did and are worried that our kids will do even less well than we have. We are grateful that we are on solid ground.

In 91/92, as a PP said, there weren't many jobs. Lots of us went back to school. At UVA law school, resident tuition was $6,200 dollars a year in 95 or so. A PP got it right - in state tuition now is not the deal it used to be. Anywhere. And to the person who mentioned 1987 re the market, what about when the dot.com bubble burst in 2,000?

Kids go to public school and we are still living in our starter house now with three of them (we are both feds so the way house loans are determined now - income not assets - we cannot move up). We live way below our means like my parents did, no Starbucks, not a hell of a lot at Whole Foods, no ordering out, flip phones and shitty cars, second hand clothes when the kids were younger and now Target (I had older cousins so had second hand clothes all the way through). And we are fine with all of that, the kids less so as they become teenagers. But clearly we are not going to get to where my parents are now (or where they were when I left the nest) even though we both work and my mother was a SAHM.

My parents sent three kids to private school in DC on one maybe upper middle class income. There is no way we could do that. There is also no way that we could pay for college for them - tuition has gone up in this area at private schools and in the US for higher education in such an exponential way that no one really seems to understand, and everyone now has to go to college to get decent jobs. And most of the crappy colleges cost just as much as the ones with the name recognition. Both ought to be rethought, but not in time for our kids.

Just really sad that my kids cannot live the life me and my siblings had growing up in the same frigging place - Washington DC - private schools, no college debt, etc, most of our family on federal salaries for three generations. Knowing the income caps as feds we always planned to move to VA, CA or TX (those two required two years for residency for college or beyond, know a lot of peers who did it), but in state tuition now absolutely sucks.

Maybe we will still get it all together. But I worry. I had it easy because of my parents "wealth" - my grandfather was also a fed and all 4 kids in my father's family got college paid but he and the rest all had to pay for law school etc. I had parents who could actually pay for both and were willing to do so - and had siblings who went more expensive post college routes as well.

But this tuition issue in higher education is absolutely brutal. Not sure I would want my kids in DC privates the way they are now, but really wish that I would be able to say to all of them that they could go to college anywhere and not have to worry about debt. They already know not to major in 16th century French literature.

Maybe community college for the first two years is the answer.

All I know is that the economic divide has become like the grand canyon, and even though we have nothing to complain about, the sinking standard of living over three generations (especially with so many feds) has come as a shock to me. Saw a stat recently - kids born in 1950's had a huge percent chance to live better economically than their parents did, (90 something), kids born in 1982 had like a 7% chance. Don't know what the odds look like for us, born about ten years earlier, but they don't feel good.

Not a whiner. Saw fellow classmates sunk by debt 25 years ago. Do not want my kids to be stuck that way. Do not want them to stay with us while they go to community college. Living on my own for 4 years was invaluable to me. I would hate to have to advise my kids to deprive themselves of that opportunity for economic reasons. Ironically, if we put all our kids in DC privates we cannot afford (and do not qualify for financial aid), we might have a much better chance of our kids getting need based financial aid for college. We are right in the wrong economic space. Savers seem to get screwed when it comes to college tuition, but we are trying so hard to find a way not to screw our kids or completely deplete our savings.

Any ideas?

Please don't slam me. I know I sound like an entitled twit, but the reality is we are not in the 1% and never will be. And the gaps have just widened and will continue to. As I said, we are on solid financial ground. Just worried about the kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of whiners here on this thread, and 3 different generations (boomers, X, and millenials) all seem pretty well represented in the woe-is-me-I-had-it-tougher-than-you club.

We are late 40s (don't know what category that puts us in, could someone please tell me?). We are doing less well economically than my parents did and are worried that our kids will do even less well than we have. We are grateful that we are on solid ground.

In 91/92, as a PP said, there weren't many jobs. Lots of us went back to school. At UVA law school, resident tuition was $6,200 dollars a year in 95 or so. A PP got it right - in state tuition now is not the deal it used to be. Anywhere. And to the person who mentioned 1987 re the market, what about when the dot.com bubble burst in 2,000?

Kids go to public school and we are still living in our starter house now with three of them (we are both feds so the way house loans are determined now - income not assets - we cannot move up). We live way below our means like my parents did, no Starbucks, not a hell of a lot at Whole Foods, no ordering out, flip phones and shitty cars, second hand clothes when the kids were younger and now Target (I had older cousins so had second hand clothes all the way through). And we are fine with all of that, the kids less so as they become teenagers. But clearly we are not going to get to where my parents are now (or where they were when I left the nest) even though we both work and my mother was a SAHM.

My parents sent three kids to private school in DC on one maybe upper middle class income. There is no way we could do that. There is also no way that we could pay for college for them - tuition has gone up in this area at private schools and in the US for higher education in such an exponential way that no one really seems to understand, and everyone now has to go to college to get decent jobs. And most of the crappy colleges cost just as much as the ones with the name recognition. Both ought to be rethought, but not in time for our kids.

Just really sad that my kids cannot live the life me and my siblings had growing up in the same frigging place - Washington DC - private schools, no college debt, etc, most of our family on federal salaries for three generations. Knowing the income caps as feds we always planned to move to VA, CA or TX (those two required two years for residency for college or beyond, know a lot of peers who did it), but in state tuition now absolutely sucks.

Maybe we will still get it all together. But I worry. I had it easy because of my parents "wealth" - my grandfather was also a fed and all 4 kids in my father's family got college paid but he and the rest all had to pay for law school etc. I had parents who could actually pay for both and were willing to do so - and had siblings who went more expensive post college routes as well.

But this tuition issue in higher education is absolutely brutal. Not sure I would want my kids in DC privates the way they are now, but really wish that I would be able to say to all of them that they could go to college anywhere and not have to worry about debt. They already know not to major in 16th century French literature.

Maybe community college for the first two years is the answer.

All I know is that the economic divide has become like the grand canyon, and even though we have nothing to complain about, the sinking standard of living over three generations (especially with so many feds) has come as a shock to me. Saw a stat recently - kids born in 1950's had a huge percent chance to live better economically than their parents did, (90 something), kids born in 1982 had like a 7% chance. Don't know what the odds look like for us, born about ten years earlier, but they don't feel good.

Not a whiner. Saw fellow classmates sunk by debt 25 years ago. Do not want my kids to be stuck that way. Do not want them to stay with us while they go to community college. Living on my own for 4 years was invaluable to me. I would hate to have to advise my kids to deprive themselves of that opportunity for economic reasons. Ironically, if we put all our kids in DC privates we cannot afford (and do not qualify for financial aid), we might have a much better chance of our kids getting need based financial aid for college. We are right in the wrong economic space. Savers seem to get screwed when it comes to college tuition, but we are trying so hard to find a way not to screw our kids or completely deplete our savings.

Any ideas?

Please don't slam me. I know I sound like an entitled twit, but the reality is we are not in the 1% and never will be. And the gaps have just widened and will continue to. As I said, we are on solid financial ground. Just worried about the kids.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of whiners here on this thread, and 3 different generations (boomers, X, and millenials) all seem pretty well represented in the woe-is-me-I-had-it-tougher-than-you club.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

Millennial with HHI of over $500k/yr and a vacation house who frequents Union Market with my biglaw friends. Lots of rich millennials in DC.

+1. It's like the 40+ crowd here CANNOT accept that there are millennials with high HHIs and thus we spend differently that people who are just starting out making 40k.

Eh. DH and I were born in 81 so we're 35. Technically millennials. HHI over 500k. Since we were born on the cusp, we relate more to Gen X's. True millennials are 30 or younger IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am with OP, I drink coffee made at home, my teen DD wants Starbucks all the time. There is no way she will change once on her own. I hope she will, but hope is slim. It is our fault, for sure, to some extent. I refuse to buy her Starbucks more often than I buy it, but you can see almost all of her school at SB every morning getting coffee, so clearly other parents suports this as well. My BIL is paying a two weeks winter break trip for his college DS to Florida to get scuba certification. No way would my parents or my DH's parents ever pay for anything like that at all. DH worked to pay for his bike at 7 years old with a a weekend paper route. Truth is that new generations are more and more spoiled, and if we are to measure degrees of spoiled, I would say it is increasing more rapidly than in the past. We became pushover parents, who provided at our own expense for our kids, and kids are clueless how to fend for themselves. We are part of the problem.

+1. I'm 50, grew up outside NYC. I had a job from about 12 onward - delivering papers, bagging groceries, etc. Worked every summer in college, and I did not grow up even remotely poor. Last year, I paid for my kids to get officiating certifications in their sports - unless I take the initiative, they don't even bother to sign up for assignments. I feel like I went wrong somewhere. My spouse and I work like dogs - travel, long hours, etc. I see younger people at my job come and go rather quickly, looking for some perfect job that is just not out there. We had one guy that had to work a few weekends and quit within 6 mos. Every generation is different early on, but eventually they all revert to the mean. They eventually want homes, good schools, educations for their kids, safe streets. Floating from job to job, collecting side hustles, not saving any money - none of this will look good from 40.

"Floating from job to job" --> studies show you make a ton more money that way because raises at current jobs don't often come. Sounds smart to me

It depends on how big the raises are. It also looks poorly when your resume shows you don't stick with an employer for very long, and you give up some street cred every time you begin a fresh relationship with a new company.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am with OP, I drink coffee made at home, my teen DD wants Starbucks all the time. There is no way she will change once on her own. I hope she will, but hope is slim. It is our fault, for sure, to some extent. I refuse to buy her Starbucks more often than I buy it, but you can see almost all of her school at SB every morning getting coffee, so clearly other parents suports this as well. My BIL is paying a two weeks winter break trip for his college DS to Florida to get scuba certification. No way would my parents or my DH's parents ever pay for anything like that at all. DH worked to pay for his bike at 7 years old with a a weekend paper route. Truth is that new generations are more and more spoiled, and if we are to measure degrees of spoiled, I would say it is increasing more rapidly than in the past. We became pushover parents, who provided at our own expense for our kids, and kids are clueless how to fend for themselves. We are part of the problem.

+1. I'm 50, grew up outside NYC. I had a job from about 12 onward - delivering papers, bagging groceries, etc. Worked every summer in college, and I did not grow up even remotely poor. Last year, I paid for my kids to get officiating certifications in their sports - unless I take the initiative, they don't even bother to sign up for assignments. I feel like I went wrong somewhere. My spouse and I work like dogs - travel, long hours, etc. I see younger people at my job come and go rather quickly, looking for some perfect job that is just not out there. We had one guy that had to work a few weekends and quit within 6 mos. Every generation is different early on, but eventually they all revert to the mean. They eventually want homes, good schools, educations for their kids, safe streets. Floating from job to job, collecting side hustles, not saving any money - none of this will look good from 40.

"Floating from job to job" --> studies show you make a ton more money that way because raises at current jobs don't often come. Sounds smart to me

It depends on how big the raises are. It also looks poorly when your resume shows you don't stick with an employer for very long, and you give up some street cred every time you begin a fresh relationship with a new company.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am with OP, I drink coffee made at home, my teen DD wants Starbucks all the time. There is no way she will change once on her own. I hope she will, but hope is slim. It is our fault, for sure, to some extent. I refuse to buy her Starbucks more often than I buy it, but you can see almost all of her school at SB every morning getting coffee, so clearly other parents suports this as well. My BIL is paying a two weeks winter break trip for his college DS to Florida to get scuba certification. No way would my parents or my DH's parents ever pay for anything like that at all. DH worked to pay for his bike at 7 years old with a a weekend paper route. Truth is that new generations are more and more spoiled, and if we are to measure degrees of spoiled, I would say it is increasing more rapidly than in the past. We became pushover parents, who provided at our own expense for our kids, and kids are clueless how to fend for themselves. We are part of the problem.

+1. I'm 50, grew up outside NYC. I had a job from about 12 onward - delivering papers, bagging groceries, etc. Worked every summer in college, and I did not grow up even remotely poor. Last year, I paid for my kids to get officiating certifications in their sports - unless I take the initiative, they don't even bother to sign up for assignments. I feel like I went wrong somewhere. My spouse and I work like dogs - travel, long hours, etc. I see younger people at my job come and go rather quickly, looking for some perfect job that is just not out there. We had one guy that had to work a few weekends and quit within 6 mos. Every generation is different early on, but eventually they all revert to the mean. They eventually want homes, good schools, educations for their kids, safe streets. Floating from job to job, collecting side hustles, not saving any money - none of this will look good from 40.

"Floating from job to job" --> studies show you make a ton more money that way because raises at current jobs don't often come. Sounds smart to me

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're right but you're actually off by a factor of 2 or 3.

The knives at DC Sharp -start- at $200 and go up to $1000+

the coffee is closer to $7. I got a candle that was $48 and the locally sourced meats and milk are more like 4x the price of Safeway (which is shit, by the way. You know this, don't you? )

— Gen Xer who can afford everything I just listed

When one is living in mom's basement, this luxuries become quite affordable!

What's it to you? Seriously. You feel the need to come on here and be all smug and superior? Make yourself feel better? Go pat yourself on your back and STFU.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're right but you're actually off by a factor of 2 or 3.

The knives at DC Sharp -start- at $200 and go up to $1000+

the coffee is closer to $7. I got a candle that was $48 and the locally sourced meats and milk are more like 4x the price of Safeway (which is shit, by the way. You know this, don't you? )

— Gen Xer who can afford everything I just listed

When one is living in mom's basement, this luxuries become quite affordable!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I skipped from about page 6 to page 20, but in what I read nowhere did I see this stat cited: Since 1985, the overall consumer price index has risen 115% while the college education inflation rate has risen nearly 500%. Meanwhile: The wages of middle-wage workers were totally flat or in decline over the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, except for the late 1990s. The wages of low-wage workers fared even worse, falling 5 percent from 1979 to 2013.

Saying "Starbucks is $5/cup!" or "responsible ppl pay off their loans, tsk tsk" is not really useful in a vacuum. Things have changed in ways that can't be blamed exclusively on supposed character defects of younger people who, as usual, have somewhat different values and cultures than older people.

Enjoy your social security. We won't.

+1.

+10000000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennial here.
Bought a starter townhouse at the bottom of the market. Still had student loans. Just sold and bought our forever house. Still have student loans to pay off, but can now afford to pay them off more quickly.
Contrary to this board, many people have student loans and mortgages. It is possible.
Get off your high horse.

Forever house already? Now, you see, that is the difference between thinking wisely and prudently. You shouldn't have bought your dream house while still paying off student loans. You should have stayed in the starter home until you paid off your other loans. You are proving OP's point. Too much, too soon.

Go away, loser.

NP.

And this is exactly the problem with young people today. Somebody disagrees with you, you come up with a witty reply as this! Uneducated slobs. My point stands, your point is what? That having a big house you can barely afford and ton of debt is a way to success? I own two houses bought in cash, because I am a loser. Millenials are incapalbe of accepting any criticism as you just pointed out. One day I will meet you as you are checking out my purchases at the grocery store.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

You have To think of the larger economy. It isn't one generation's fault. Houses and colleges and gas and airplane travel are more expensive then 25 years. Plus everyone is now paying monthly for things that didn't even exist 25 years ago: internet and cell/smart phones.