Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want specifics on how husbands have reacted. Have they said anything? Specific changes? Questions?

Mine never said anything but after about six months he wondered why I so happy. Yup I leaned to give fewer fucks. I stop needed validation from him. Now I travel, see plays, go to concerts without caring if he wants to join me or not.

After reading this thread, I'm so happy to be divorced and dating a wonderful and kind man!

And now I know why so many people around here are so deeply unhappy.

I think part of the problem is that men can be wonderful and kind, but then once you are married, things change. People are on their best behavior when they are dating. Maybe the solution is not to move in together and not get married.

The problem with this thread is not all of the PPs are talking about the same thing. Some (and I include OPin this category) are talking about what I think are more like cosmetic flaws in their marriage. It's like when you are buying a house, and a house has cosmetic issues.

Others are talking about structural issues in their marriage, deeper problems.

For the marriages with cosmetic flaws, OP's strategy is a good one. Basically, it's a decision not to get caught up in the small stuff and not to expect a lot of superfluous validation and accolades from your spouse. So what if your husband doesn't get you flowers on Valentine's day. Maybe it's better that your happiness is not dependent on those kind of, ultimately, surface-level things. You spend less time getting upset that your husband didn't ooh and ahh at the dinner you made, and instead you make dinners you like, so that you don't need the constant validation.

But if your marriage has structural issues, then not caring isn't going to work. If your husband is abusive or if he screams at you and humiliates you in front of your children or your friends, then no level of Buddhist detachment is going to make your marriage healthy. If there is infidelity or lying or financial issues, detachment is NOT the solution. Those structural problems need to be addressed.

OP's strategy only works if your marriage is structurally sound.

If there are big issues, you can still use OP's strategy while you figure out how to address them or how to get out of the marriage. Basically, her approach is to disengage so as not to escalate. And that is a good technique to use with someone who is emotionally abusive. But it's not a long-term solution.

There's a difference between a marriage in which your husband screams at you on a daily basis and a marriage in which he doesn't put his socks in the hamper. I think PPs are just lumping all marital problems in here. OP's solution really is for the latter types of marital issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really what you guys are describing is becoming whole and secure with yourselves. Once you do that, it's a whole lot easier to let the little stuff (and the big stuff) roll off your back.

Of course, the question is...how to become secure and whole.

I don't agree with this. PP here. Everyone who knows me will tell you I was a more secure person, a more independent person before I got involved with DH. My DH had emotional and phyiscal abuse as a child and he does not have a great family support system. Actually, I have seen/corresponded with more of his family in recent years than he has. Our problem is that he doesn't return basic pleasantries. He doesn't thank me for anything, he doesn't acknowledge my feelings at all (he wants to know why I have any feelings at all), and he doesn't do anything around our house and barely anything with our 4 yo DD. I was raised differently, when I visit family and when I talk to other people, it is different. We say words like "thank you" and "sorry." He also seems to do things intentionally to piss me off. I will share something and he will 3 seconds later do that exact thing I asked him not to do.

We all look to folks to validate our feelings. Looking to someone who can't empathize to validate feelings is demoralizing in the worst way. Not caring about his reaction or his feelings is the only way to make it through a marriage like this.

NP, haven't read all 25 or whatever pages. But man oh man, immediate PP here, you could be me. This thread has been in my head the past several days. I want to stop caring but not sure how to do it, especially with a young toddler. I'm at a loss.

I am that pp. What I learned is that he's passive aggressive. Apparently, according to the internet, he could be doing that crap because he was raised not being allowed to express his anger or other emotions. So instead of telling me something upset him and allowing me to apologize or fix it and we move on, he winds up punishing me in various ways. Most of them now involve him intentionally trying to rock the boat and screw up my life.

What a huge chunk of my marriage has come down to is that my husband is also a selfish, lazy SOB. It means he doesn't do anything to upkeep the house we live in, I am responsible for all of the childcare arrangements, and

Here is where I am at right now:

-No matter what he does to intentionally upset me, I can't care at all. I just expect him to screw it up on purpose, forget what I asked for from the store, or not show up to get DD when he was supposed to, etc. I have 10 contingency plans for everything he could try to mess up. If he is late home from work and I miss my yoga class, I can't care. However, I have some friends I can text to see if they will take DD when I really want to do something. They are now at the age where it's just easier to sometimes have two 4 year olds, because they can entertain each other. Okay, so when your work schedule changes 15 times in 5 months, I am just going to schedule a sitter. I know I can't count on him for anything. He used to tell me he was leaving work after I was home with our toddler all day and then not actually leave for 90 minutes after that. And then I wasn't allowed to get upset when he came home from work late 60 to 90 minutes later than I thought. This and a combination of him just conveniently being allergic to everything I cooked meant I stopped cooking for him. Based on this thread, I am just buying foods I want to cook and he can eat it or something else. I like to eat steak. I have been buying a lot of steak and veggies. I am very happy eating the wonderful steak.

-I am not letting him in on my life. Anything I say to him, he is going to find a way to use it against me or mess it up. If I don't tell him I don't like something or ask him to do anything differently, he can't intentionally do the opposite.

-I am back to keeping a very clean house and running a tight ship. I expect his clothes are going to be on the floor, that he's going to play with DD and trash the place and not pick it up. I expect that he is going to leave dirty dishes around the house. Or his new game is rinsing the dishes and setting them on the counter for me to load in the dish washer. He asked me two weeks ago if that was okay, and I said no, please put them in the dishwasher (the 2nd time I asked him) and he blatantly said ok and put them on the counter. It's some days like that where I just visualize taking a frying pan and beating the curb with it.

In line with this thread, if I want the clean house, I am just going to clean it. I am not going to care that he is a SOB anymore.

-With the help of my parents, I spent a lot of time reorganizing my life to streamline what needs to get done. We moved my office around so I could better work in there. We reorganized part of the laundry area, so that it made it more conducive to getting the laundry folded (places to fold and hang). And I got a planner and I now make lists and lists and more lists. I have to be very organized if I am going to be remotely successful as a single parent in the house or out of it.

-I was staying at home and freelancing, so I just went out and got a fulltime job as not to give him total control of my finances.

-I am just going to do what I want and not care what he thinks or how that affects his life. That is how he runs his life and he's turned my life upside down again and again and I'm not allowed to be upset. What I have done is create a situation where I don't need him here to do what I want to do. DD and I are having great adventures, and he's free to come along. I am going to make decisions that are the best for me and her.

-Instead of getting upset at him, I am just texting or calling my parents and complaining every now and then.

-I keep rereading this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really what you guys are describing is becoming whole and secure with yourselves. Once you do that, it's a whole lot easier to let the little stuff (and the big stuff) roll off your back.

Of course, the question is...how to become secure and whole.

I don't agree with this. PP here. Everyone who knows me will tell you I was a more secure person, a more independent person before I got involved with DH. My DH had emotional and phyiscal abuse as a child and he does not have a great family support system. Actually, I have seen/corresponded with more of his family in recent years than he has. Our problem is that he doesn't return basic pleasantries. He doesn't thank me for anything, he doesn't acknowledge my feelings at all (he wants to know why I have any feelings at all), and he doesn't do anything around our house and barely anything with our 4 yo DD. I was raised differently, when I visit family and when I talk to other people, it is different. We say words like "thank you" and "sorry." He also seems to do things intentionally to piss me off. I will share something and he will 3 seconds later do that exact thing I asked him not to do.

We all look to folks to validate our feelings. Looking to someone who can't empathize to validate feelings is demoralizing in the worst way. Not caring about his reaction or his feelings is the only way to make it through a marriage like this.

NP, haven't read all 25 or whatever pages. But man oh man, immediate PP here, you could be me. This thread has been in my head the past several days. I want to stop caring but not sure how to do it, especially with a young toddler. I'm at a loss.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see this from two perspectives, on one hand I think that there are some spouses who are just too nagging. Those types can benefit from letting up and just letting each other breathe. But what some of you describe sounds like you're just married to say you're married and you don't do anything as a team. I recently "stopped caring" in a relationship and I left him. I wasn't going to just say "well I don't care" -!: compromise what my standards and wants in life are. You can easily "I don't care" you're life into the ground. I feel like it is a bit of a lean in just to say that you don't care and you'll just go along with whatever for the sake of the relationship. So yes, sometimes simply backing off can help... but When it hurts more than it helps, it's no longer worth it.

I'm guessing you don't have children.

I don't, but I don't think that children of two detached, emotionally divorced parents living in the same home will fare any better than the parents who just call it what it is- divorce. What is the point of just staying to gether when everyone (including your kids) know that you are unhappy and the two of you simply live separate lives in the same home.

You keep posting your theories, yet you have no experience in how to manage a less-than-happy marriage and you have no children. You don't understand this kind of situation until you live it. Maybe you should let people who understand things speak here, and you listen, instead of arguing with their experience. There is much insight, speaking from much experience, in this thread.

Yeah and sometimes it takes an outsider to tell you that you are fucked up. What is the point of this existence?

Stability and money. That's the whole point.

Lordy. Now I've seen it all. Money!

Gross.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the most prolifically dysfunctional threads ever. Apathy, emotionally divorced, detached...you name it. You prople are fuuuuucked up.

+ 1,000

It's hard to believe that people live like this.

Let me guess - you and your spouse haven't built an estate together, amirite?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see this from two perspectives, on one hand I think that there are some spouses who are just too nagging. Those types can benefit from letting up and just letting each other breathe. But what some of you describe sounds like you're just married to say you're married and you don't do anything as a team. I recently "stopped caring" in a relationship and I left him. I wasn't going to just say "well I don't care" -!: compromise what my standards and wants in life are. You can easily "I don't care" you're life into the ground. I feel like it is a bit of a lean in just to say that you don't care and you'll just go along with whatever for the sake of the relationship. So yes, sometimes simply backing off can help... but When it hurts more than it helps, it's no longer worth it.

I'm guessing you don't have children.

I don't, but I don't think that children of two detached, emotionally divorced parents living in the same home will fare any better than the parents who just call it what it is- divorce. What is the point of just staying to gether when everyone (including your kids) know that you are unhappy and the two of you simply live separate lives in the same home.

You keep posting your theories, yet you have no experience in how to manage a less-than-happy marriage and you have no children. You don't understand this kind of situation until you live it. Maybe you should let people who understand things speak here, and you listen, instead of arguing with their experience. There is much insight, speaking from much experience, in this thread.

Yeah and sometimes it takes an outsider to tell you that you are fucked up. What is the point of this existence?

Stability and money. That's the whole point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see this from two perspectives, on one hand I think that there are some spouses who are just too nagging. Those types can benefit from letting up and just letting each other breathe. But what some of you describe sounds like you're just married to say you're married and you don't do anything as a team. I recently "stopped caring" in a relationship and I left him. I wasn't going to just say "well I don't care" -!: compromise what my standards and wants in life are. You can easily "I don't care" you're life into the ground. I feel like it is a bit of a lean in just to say that you don't care and you'll just go along with whatever for the sake of the relationship. So yes, sometimes simply backing off can help... but When it hurts more than it helps, it's no longer worth it.

I'm guessing you don't have children.

I don't, but I don't think that children of two detached, emotionally divorced parents living in the same home will fare any better than the parents who just call it what it is- divorce. What is the point of just staying to gether when everyone (including your kids) know that you are unhappy and the two of you simply live separate lives in the same home.

You keep posting your theories, yet you have no experience in how to manage a less-than-happy marriage and you have no children. You don't understand this kind of situation until you live it. Maybe you should let people who understand things speak here, and you listen, instead of arguing with their experience. There is much insight, speaking from much experience, in this thread.

+1

Let me guess --- Thirty years ago, you married your "best friend, the most wonderful, the most kind and caring man ever. Every morning when I wake up and see your face, I realize again how blessed I am. here's to many more years of making memories together. I love you sweetie!" Lots of those marriages aren't what they seem either.

Anonymous wrote:One of the most prolifically dysfunctional threads ever. Apathy, emotionally divorced, detached...you name it. You prople are fuuuuucked up.

+ 1,000

It's hard to believe that people live like this.

Anonymous wrote:What existence are you talking about? If you go back and read the OP, she enjoys, loves, and appreciates her husband the more for having learned to detach from his annoying and negative characteristics. This is a far cry from living in a dead, vaguely hostile marriage.

If OP had continued to be overly invested and enmeshed in his opinions about everything, banging her head against the wall endlessly, she would have grown to dislike and resent him, and the marriage would have eroded and very likely have ended or turned into one of those dead, hostile marriages. We see that happen every day. Instead, she's content. And it took some compromise and learning to step back at times. Is he a perfect Prince Charming? No, but nobody's perfect and we are not Disney princesses.

As a creative and original thinker, I enjoy hearing the fresh perspective of the young and inexperienced, and I appreciate new insights from people outside of a situation, but if there's one thing you shouldn't do, it's look at other peoples' incredibly complex marriages from outside and make judgments. If you do, you'll be one of those constantly shocked at what goes on behind closed doors, who really is happy and who really is not.

I think the poster you are responding to was actually agreeing that in the Ops case this "not caring" works, not so much in the case of some of the other posters who are writing about devoid, loveless marriages that they just "stopped caring" about.

What existence are you talking about? If you go back and read the OP, she enjoys, loves, and appreciates her husband the more for having learned to detach from his annoying and negative characteristics. This is a far cry from living in a dead, vaguely hostile marriage.

If OP had continued to be overly invested and enmeshed in his opinions about everything, banging her head against the wall endlessly, she would have grown to dislike and resent him, and the marriage would have eroded and very likely have ended or turned into one of those dead, hostile marriages. We see that happen every day. Instead, she's content. And it took some compromise and learning to step back at times. Is he a perfect Prince Charming? No, but nobody's perfect and we are not Disney princesses.

As a creative and original thinker, I enjoy hearing the fresh perspective of the young and inexperienced, and I appreciate new insights from people outside of a situation, but if there's one thing you shouldn't do, it's look at other peoples' incredibly complex marriages from outside and make judgments. If you do, you'll be one of those constantly shocked at what goes on behind closed doors, who really is happy and who really is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see this from two perspectives, on one hand I think that there are some spouses who are just too nagging. Those types can benefit from letting up and just letting each other breathe. But what some of you describe sounds like you're just married to say you're married and you don't do anything as a team. I recently "stopped caring" in a relationship and I left him. I wasn't going to just say "well I don't care" -!: compromise what my standards and wants in life are. You can easily "I don't care" you're life into the ground. I feel like it is a bit of a lean in just to say that you don't care and you'll just go along with whatever for the sake of the relationship. So yes, sometimes simply backing off can help... but When it hurts more than it helps, it's no longer worth it.

I'm guessing you don't have children.

I don't, but I don't think that children of two detached, emotionally divorced parents living in the same home will fare any better than the parents who just call it what it is- divorce. What is the point of just staying to gether when everyone (including your kids) know that you are unhappy and the two of you simply live separate lives in the same home.

You keep posting your theories, yet you have no experience in how to manage a less-than-happy marriage and you have no children. You don't understand this kind of situation until you live it. Maybe you should let people who understand things speak here, and you listen, instead of arguing with their experience. There is much insight, speaking from much experience, in this thread.

Yeah and sometimes it takes an outsider to tell you that you are fucked up. What is the point of this existence?

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I grew up in a home with emotionally divorced parents-two emotionally detached people living two separate lives in the same home. My parents are fundamentally good people who are simply incompatible with each other. Divorce (outside of issues like abuse, addiction, crime, etc) was not an option for people in their generation/culture. In the early years, when they still thought their marriage was salvageable, there was a lot more fighting. From late ES onward, most of the open fighting just stopped. But my parents also stopped spending time with each other outside of activities we absolutely had to do as a family. Their entire relationship became predicated around hh management, childcare, eldercare, and maintaining the facade of a happy marriage to extended family/friends. Once my parents no longer had to deal with distractions from their marriage like childcare and eldercare, their marriage started to unravel again. They had to find new reasons for staying married- mostly financial security in their old age and feeling like they were too old to start over again.

People talk a lot about the negative effects of divorce (even amicable divorce)- having emotionally divorced/detached parents also involves its own set of issues. My brother and I always knew our parents' relationship wasn't normal. We didn't have an unhappy home but it wasn't happy either. They avoided each other except to handle daily logistical issues. Since my parents couldn't turn to each other as confidants, they turned to their children instead. Once my brother and I became adults, they began involving us in their marital issues. For the past twenty years, my parents have confirmed over and over again what we felt as kids. Both of my parents also don't see the other as their primary companion- they don't enjoy spending with each other so they, once again, turn to their children instead. Whenever my brother and I have tried to draw boundaries, we usually get hit with "we sacrifice so much for you/we stayed married for you." (Btw, we see them about 2-3x a month so it isn't an issue of not spending enough time with them.)

My parents stopped caring because that's what it took for them to stay married. In some ways, it actually increased their ability to handle hh/childcare/eldercare issues as a team. They became like co-workers who didn't particularly get along but were deeply committed to their profession. And out of professionalism, they put aside their egos/personal issues in order to get the job done. However, marriage isn't a profession and once the day/project ended, they couldn't go home. From a generational/cultural/individual perspective, I understand why my parents did what they did. I absolutely believe that my parents did the best they could. However, I can also say that I don't want the responsibility of my parents' happiness. I wish they didn't stay married for their children. Certainly, I would have wanted them to try to their best to resolve their issues but stay in an emotionally void/dysfunctional marriage? Absolutely not.

Grew up the same way and feel exactly the same way about it.

I am the pp that requested this s/o thread. Relationships are messy and that disguises some bad situations.

For some of the partners on here, I am readying about passive aggressive spouses and "crazy making" behavior. This describes my marriage and I am further detaching, but I think a divorce is in the future.

One of the most prolifically dysfunctional threads ever. Apathy, emotionally divorced, detached...you name it. You prople are fuuuuucked up.