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Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

The conversation I"m going to have: You don't have to say "can I touch your breast" in a robot voice, but use your words. Channel Barry White, and say "Hey baby, you look fine and I really want to fool around with you, does that sound good." Say: "I'm really turned on and I want to fuck you, do you want me?" And if you don't know her well enough to ask, or you ask and she doesn't respond, or you ask and she says no, or you ask and you realize she's unconscious and covered in vomit, then you do not have sex with her!

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Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women blame the victim for the same reason you ask for details when you hear someone your age died: you want to think it couldn't happen to you. If she was a slut or made bad decisions or maybe she consented or whatever then it is her fault and you're so much smarter you could never be a victim. Except it doesn't work that way.

I am not one of the previous apologist posters. But it happened to me and I do blame myself for drinking so much. Yes I blame him too. But how can I not be mad at myself? Maybe it's "easier" for this woman to not blame herself because obviously she didn't choose to be laying unconscious behind a dumpster. But I let the guy walk me back to my dorm. Ugh. I don't know what I'm trying to say. People probably think I'm partly to blame. I think it too. It sucks

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Anonymous wrote:Women blame the victim for the same reason you ask for details when you hear someone your age died: you want to think it couldn't happen to you. If she was a slut or made bad decisions or maybe she consented or whatever then it is her fault and you're so much smarter you could never be a victim. Except it doesn't work that way.

I am not one of the previous apologist posters. But it happened to me and I do blame myself for drinking so much. Yes I blame him too. But how can I not be mad at myself? Maybe it's "easier" for this woman to not blame herself because obviously she didn't choose to be laying unconscious behind a dumpster. But I let the guy walk me back to my dorm. Ugh. I don't know what I'm trying to say. People probably think I'm partly to blame. I think it too. It sucks

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Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

True fact; alcohol doesn't spontaneously turn normal healthy people into rapists

No, but normal, healthy people aren't potential rapists. When we encounter a person who's drinking heavily, we don't know "who" is behind the alcohol and "who" might become more volatile.

But the point being made upthread was that some college kids are just poor, confused souls who don't know how to manage alcohol and thus they're raping people by accident even though they're really just good kids. Which simply isn't true.

Anonymous wrote:Women blame the victim for the same reason you ask for details when you hear someone your age died: you want to think it couldn't happen to you. If she was a slut or made bad decisions or maybe she consented or whatever then it is her fault and you're so much smarter you could never be a victim. Except it doesn't work that way.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of the rape apologists are women.

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Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of the rape apologists are women.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

And when a kid gets so drunk that he forgets about consent, he should go to jail. If he can't control himself, he shouldn't drink.

True. When a girl goes to a party, accidentally drinks too much, cheats on her boyfriend and ends up by a dumpster, she shouldn't drink. No college kid should drink.

A girl isn't cheating on her boyfriend when she's being raped.

I should have specified, before at the party. That's where she cheated on him.

It is sick that this has devolved into a conversation only about all the things she did wrong. It's nice to see rape culture is alive and strong. Also, she didn't remember any kissing per her victim statement.