Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

I don' think that is anywhere near the "bottom line." There is a huge demand for prepping materials. In many ways it's a cultural thing. It is the way you get into the better schools, short of bribery. So the vendors are filling this demand. No supply, the demand remains. No demand, the supply will fizzle.

Yes, information that caused parents to think twice before making use of these services or products would cause a reduction in demand. Lower demand equals lower profit.

And drug dealers sell there materials based on demands. Yes, I am equating test prep companies (for the AAP) to drug dealer. Actually, tesp prep companies may be worse, as they create fear, uncertainty and doubt undermining the psychological well being of their client..s

And right on schedule, the last post appears and uses ridicule in an attempt to deflect attention from information that could cause young parents to think twice about AAP test prep.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or yt? drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

I don' think that is anywhere near the "bottom line." There is a huge demand for prepping materials. In many ways it's a cultural thing. It is the way you get into the better schools, short of bribery. So the vendors are filling this demand. No supply, the demand remains. No demand, the supply will fizzle.

And drug dealers sell there materials based on demands. Yes, I am equating test prep companies (for the AAP) to drug dealer. Actually, tesp prep companies may be worse, as they create fear, uncertainty and doubt undermining the psychological well being of their client..s

Really? And you think the preppers are the ones who need help. You care so much about you "unprepared" kid getting into AAP that you are now equating prep materials with drugs. Step away from the madness, you clearly need a break.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

I don' think that is anywhere near the "bottom line." There is a huge demand for prepping materials. In many ways it's a cultural thing. It is the way you get into the better schools, short of bribery. So the vendors are filling this demand. No supply, the demand remains. No demand, the supply will fizzle.

And drug dealers sell there materials based on demands. Yes, I am equating test prep companies (for the AAP) to drug dealer. Actually, tesp prep companies may be worse, as they create fear, uncertainty and doubt undermining the psychological well being of their client..s

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

I don' think that is anywhere near the "bottom line." There is a huge demand for prepping materials. In many ways it's a cultural thing. It is the way you get into the better schools, short of bribery. So the vendors are filling this demand. No supply, the demand remains. No demand, the supply will fizzle.

Yes, information that caused parents to think twice before making use of these services or products would cause a reduction in demand. Lower demand equals lower profit.

Anonymous wrote:
The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

I don' think that is anywhere near the "bottom line." There is a huge demand for prepping materials. In many ways it's a cultural thing. It is the way you get into the better schools, short of bribery. So the vendors are filling this demand. No supply, the demand remains. No demand, the supply will fizzle.

The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, no one is advocating anything other than following the guidelines for the CogAT: Be well rested and have a good breakfast. That will eliminate some of the uncertainty, and give the county the number closer to the actual intelligence / potential (which is what they want).

Here is an example that maybe you can get: prepping for a medical test. I used to eat a high fat diet. In the week before my blood tests for cholesterol, I would watch what I eat, then go back to the regular diet. My numbers looked better than they were 90% of the time, so there were no changes to my medicine. I fooled the metric, but did not change the need for a cardiac stent.

Prepping for the CogAT is like dieting the week before the cholesterol test: it causes the test to return information that is not useful, and the person using the information does not know it is not useful.

So the CogAT is like the cholesterol test. The more extensive test, the WISC, is like the Cardiac Cath, which captured the blockage. Alternatively, The Dr. could just listen to my wife who says I do not eat well -- GBRS of 2 from the teacher.

yes, I see this, but prepping like using a calculator for math homework. Some would say using one doesn't show what the person really can do since the device helps them get the right answers. But others counter, well they're everywhere and cheap - so they're really just a fact of life these days. Might as well go ahead and use them. Prepping is same same. It's everywhere; you can't stop people from doing it. I really don't see why they would distinguish between a 130 CogAt prepped or unprepped. What difference does it make. Prepping is just a fact of life these days.

It is like using a calculator....some time the kids in the early grades will be told not to use a calculator....if they use it, it is cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We don't really care in this context because that is not what this discussion is about. Here, again, is a description of the thread topic:

You are categorically dead wrong. Title of this thread reads: AAP: "Bad news for test prep parents". Therefore, the distinction between an ability and an aptitude test may be pertinent to the issue of test prep.

We get it. You are obviously enamored with yourself hence the repeated self-reference.

Thread Topic: AAP: "Bad News for Test Prep Parents"

and if you read the OP, the author was trying to convince people that FCPS is now asking who has seen the test, the implication apparently being that they are seeing who has been naughty and nice. And maybe taking names? And maybe acting accordingly?

well, the next step should be to make them wear a large scarlet "P" on the front of their shirt or blouse like Hester Prynne did, because really it is about the same type of offense.

Anonymous wrote:Look, no one is advocating anything other than following the guidelines for the CogAT: Be well rested and have a good breakfast. That will eliminate some of the uncertainty, and give the county the number closer to the actual intelligence / potential (which is what they want).

Here is an example that maybe you can get: prepping for a medical test. I used to eat a high fat diet. In the week before my blood tests for cholesterol, I would watch what I eat, then go back to the regular diet. My numbers looked better than they were 90% of the time, so there were no changes to my medicine. I fooled the metric, but did not change the need for a cardiac stent.

Prepping for the CogAT is like dieting the week before the cholesterol test: it causes the test to return information that is not useful, and the person using the information does not know it is not useful.

So the CogAT is like the cholesterol test. The more extensive test, the WISC, is like the Cardiac Cath, which captured the blockage. Alternatively, The Dr. could just listen to my wife who says I do not eat well -- GBRS of 2 from the teacher.

yes, I see this, but prepping like using a calculator for math homework. Some would say using one doesn't show what the person really can do since the device helps them get the right answers. But others counter, well they're everywhere and cheap - so they're really just a fact of life these days. Might as well go ahead and use them. Prepping is same same. It's everywhere; you can't stop people from doing it. I really don't see why they would distinguish between a 130 CogAt prepped or unprepped. What difference does it make. Prepping is just a fact of life these days.

Look, no one is advocating anything other than following the guidelines for the CogAT: Be well rested and have a good breakfast. That will eliminate some of the uncertainty, and give the county the number closer to the actual intelligence / potential (which is what they want).

Here is an example that maybe you can get: prepping for a medical test. I used to eat a high fat diet. In the week before my blood tests for cholesterol, I would watch what I eat, then go back to the regular diet. My numbers looked better than they were 90% of the time, so there were no changes to my medicine. I fooled the metric, but did not change the need for a cardiac stent.

Prepping for the CogAT is like dieting the week before the cholesterol test: it causes the test to return information that is not useful, and the person using the information does not know it is not useful.

So the CogAT is like the cholesterol test. The more extensive test, the WISC, is like the Cardiac Cath, which captured the blockage. Alternatively, The Dr. could just listen to my wife who says I do not eat well -- GBRS of 2 from the teacher.

Yes, that's why a person's weight, strength, happiness, generosity, and criminality are also all fixed. We were born with doses of each from our parents. Some are really lucky to be spawned by gifted, God fearing, and smart parents. I don't know why mankind has a difficult time understanding what is so blatantly obvious.

+1000

The granular concept of potential (e.g., for strength, intelligence, generosity, criminality, depression, obesity) is clearly fixed since we all live on the planet earth subject to a single gravitation pull. Strength, intelligence, generosity, criminality, depression, and obesity clearly come from one's parental genes. They are all fixed and immutable in our children. No amount of preparation or prep can change these facts. Evolution is a myth conjured up by the liberal and pagan left.

There is really no need for clinically neurotic Virginians to worry about other people's children who prepare for tests to improve their scores since scores reflect fixed intelligence and can't change. Prep is a waste of time. Peyton and Phelps are complete idiots. They were already born gifted and talented and would accomplish their feats without all their preparation and effort. Perhaps, they too lack the intelligence or smart gene from their parents.

This is why these aptitude and intelligence test scores are so important for admission officers at Big 3, AAP, TJ, MIT, Cal Tech, and Harvard. They reflect intelligence and smarts and can't really be changed because of preparation and study. Hard work and study do not change aptitude, intelligence or smart tests. If you don't steal the exam, or exam form, and the solutions, there is no amount of dedicated hard academic study and preparation before the test that will improve one's entitled score on an aptitude, smarts or intelligence test. The FCPS website and my preacher say so.

It is equally laughable watching all these "fat" and "ugly" DCUM women spending all their money, work and effort in the yearly prep of face/body make up and diet in the name of becoming pretty, attractive, and thin. Like intelligence, obesity and physical attractiveness, are fixed and immutable. No amount of cheating, prepping and primping will change this. You are stuck with what your parents handed down to you in their germ line.

Food for thought for all you life-long cheaters the next time you visit your personal trainer or tutor!

Yes, that's why a person's weight, strength, happiness, generosity, and criminality are also all fixed. We were born with doses of each from our parents. Some are really lucky to be the spawn of gifted, God fearing, and smart parents. I don't know why mankind has a difficult time understanding what is so blatantly obvious.

Anonymous wrote:

so you're saying that someone can prep for an intelligence test?

No one can prep for an intelligence, IQ or aptitude test. Intelligence is fixed. You can't have more than your parents gave you. It's like fat and obesity. Fixed.

Intelligence may be fixed, but tests to measure it are not nearly as precise as people want to believe. There have been several studies where IQs have varied by 20 points for the same individual between tests. IMO intelligence potential is fixed. I.e. there's a certain level of smart a person will be able to get to if they reach their full potential, but circumstances might keep this from happening.

Anonymous wrote:

Real IQ tests are individually administered. They interact, ask questions and observe the person taking the test. The people giving it are well trained in spotting kids that have been prepped. The CogAT is a group test, no individual attention is given and thus is MUCH easier to prep for.

The definition of a subjective and biased evaluation (observer and test bias)

They're not coming up with a number from thin air. They're asking questions with answers and/or explaining a section and then letting the kid work. But yes, I do agree that it is more subjective if probably less prone to prepping than a CogAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like it could be just another data point to keep in mind. It would be interesting when the scores come back to know who had seen the questions before and might be helpful in evaluating what the scores mean.

If I were a researcher in this field, I think it would be interesting to do a study comparing test scores and GBRS scores of kids who had prepped for the test and then see a similar comparison of the scores of kids who take the test without test prep. A study like that would be useful to the school district in deciding whether these scores are reliable in identifying which kids need which programs.

I would like to see the results of this study, just out of interest. I don't think the school district would use the results in the identification process, but it may be useful in making future decisions about the process and whether changes should be made.

Yes, this would be very interesting. Wish it were possible to see the results of a study like this.