Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

+1

But you can't argue with these women. They are convinced what they did was responsible and the best decision.

This is either "Dr" Amy or one of her minions. Please go away and leave us alone to argue among ourselves. We don't need your cavalry.

And to the PP who said that "Dr" Amy is in favor of CNMs and better regulation of homebirths, it's very clear that she's on a witch hunt and she doesn't care one bit who she hurts. If that was really the case she might actually be doing something useful because the licensing and regulation of non-CNM midwives is all over the place, not to mention that in many states CNMs have unnecessary and unreasonable restrictions placed on them that prevent them from operating to the full extent of their scope of practice. What she is actually doing instead is trying to drive (particularly non-CNM) midwives underground and curtail women's birth choices.

I have no idea who "Dr" Amy is, and I am not one of her minions. I am just a normal professional working person who thinks the risks women take with home birth are ridiculous. You can disagree. But that is my opinion (based on evidence).

What evidence?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved my home birth!
There's nothing like a woman
and her baby being respected.
No one can take that away.

You know, the reason people get pissed at you for saying things like this is that it implies that the respect you experienced cannot occur anywhere other than home. Which is not true. It becomes less a message of your own personal empowerment and more a disparagement of everyone else's experience.

Signed,

born at home, had a baby at a freestanding birth center

The fact of the matter is that before I ever got pregnant, I went to observe both hospital and home births. There was no question about where a woman and her baby are more respected as human beings.

Please tell us how a hospital has time or motivation, to ask a woman what she wants for herself or her baby?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

Anyone who comes to this forum and likens home birth to not wearing your seat belt is ignoring the real actual scientific data (which may or may not say that planned home births are as safe or safer than planned hospital births, but definitely do not say that planned home births are as dangerous as not wearing your seat belt).

Not the above PP, but I think what many people react to is the sense that you could be gambling with your baby's health/life if something goes wrong. I think home birth could be more appropriately compared to, say, mountain climbing. An amazing and beautiful experience when done with the proper precautions and knowledge about what you're getting into -- potentially life-threatening when it isn't.

But giving birth, anywhere, is potentially life-threatening.

And mountain climbing is not a good analogy because you can either go mountain-climbing, or you can not go mountain-climbing. Whereas if you are pregnant, you have to give birth somewhere. So the question is: where is it best to plan to give birth? At home*, or at the hospital? The answer to this question depends on three things:

1. Your individual health and pregnancy.
2. Your individual definition of "best".
3. Your judgment about the various and conflicting studies that compare the outcomes of planned home births vs. planned hospital births. Because the fact is that there are scientific studies that show that the outcomes for planned home births are at least as good as the outcomes for planned hospital births.

*or at the free-standing birthing center

Anonymous wrote:I loved my home birth!
There's nothing like a woman
and her baby being respected.
No one can take that away.

You know, the reason people get pissed at you for saying things like this is that it implies that the respect you experienced cannot occur anywhere other than home. Which is not true. It becomes less a message of your own personal empowerment and more a disparagement of everyone else's experience.

Signed,

born at home, had a baby at a freestanding birth center

I loved my home birth!
There's nothing like a woman
and her baby being respected.
No one can take that away.

I think it boils down to this. Some people will always think what they want to think despite any evidence of the contrary. Reasonable minds can differ on whether or not a home birth is safer than a hospital birth, equally safe, or less safe. But those who think it's this shockingly risky thing are ignoring evidence that even if there IS a risk (which is far from conclusive) it is, overall, a tiny risk. Even the mayo clinic says as much in their guidance about home birth - they think it's 3x as risky but also make sure to say that overall the risk is quite small.

For many women, it is a reasonable choice. What is lacking is perspective. I think many of the women who think "all homebirth is irresponsible" are (often, obviously not always) the same ones who think that an unnecessary c-section is just fine because somehow it means you don't face any other risks other than losing out on an experience. I had an argument once with a real life friend about home birth, and I said, "can we at least agree that there are issues in a hospital that are contributing to this choice? Can we at least agree that 40 percent c-section rate or higher in this town is unacceptable?" and she wouldn't budge - just kept saying "I'll take 100,000 unnecessary c-sections over the chance that my baby could die at home with no competent medical care." This is so reductionist. It suggests that an unnecessary c-section is just no big deal, has no risks of its own, and also insists that homebirth is just some backwoods thing, that midwives aren't trained professionals with ressusitation equipment, etc.

I also find that many women who DID have many interventions at a hospital tend to think that their birth experience is a reason that it would be risky to birth at home. The same friend above uses her experience all of the time, saying "my baby would have died at home because of X,Y,Z." Well, her baby was 10 weeks premature! She wouldn't have had him at home. Another mom was induced at 39 weeks (why? well, she had a non-reassuring non-stress test and even though she had a BPP that then showed baby was just sleeping and all was well, she freaked out and said "induce me."). Given cervadil overnight, and confined to a hospital bed with a nurse who told her that it was CRITICAL that she not even more around a lot in bed as the monitors were slipping and would put her baby at risk. She started going into contractions overnight and was overwhelmed with pain and wanted to get up but was told it was dangerous. She got an epidural the next morning around 3cm. Her labor "stalled" at 6cm, so the doctors told her to try pushing, to see if that would help. She had an inflamed cervical lip so they told her she needed an emergency c-section. Baby was born with some respiratory distress. She uses her experience as a cautionary tale against home birth! A final instance is a friend who is a nurse, who is VERY anti "natural" birth and actually seems to think that the mere act of going without an epidural puts baby at risk. She is even anti midwives at hospitals. She was giving birth, was induced at 40 weeks on the spot, and her labor was "going nowhere" (ie not progressing according to friedman's curve). Her doctor kept amping up the pitocin and finally the baby went into distress. "Pit to distress" is not something that ever seemed to enter her mind. She simply thinks that her baby was bound to go into distress anywhere. She thinks her c-section was absolutely warranted. Her doctor now tells her that the VBAC she asked him about would be too risky because her baby was malpositioned and that he thinks this one will be too. Better to just go ahead and schedule a c-section this time around...

Sorry to Monday morning quarterback someone else's birth, but that's exactly what the rest of you are doing. You think we're all just "lucky" that our babies were not one of the babies that died because they were born outside of a hospital, and insult us by saying we're doing it 1800's style, but this is the mentality we are up against. Women who simply trust their doctors so blindly that they think their failure to follow friedman's curve is a genuine emergency and that the subsequent c-section they have saved their life and that of their baby.

We judge you too, and I think that's where a LOT of this vitriol is coming from. You feel like our safe home births couldn't possibly have been safe because it means that you might have allowed some interventions that weren't necessary. Or, you simplify it all - oh, I'll take ANY unnecessary interventions in order to avoid the risks of a homebirth. Well, you can avoid the risks of a homebirth, but no amount of interventions at a hospital allow you to fully avoid the risks of BIRTH. And, while you can reduce some risks, maybe, you definitely increase other risks.

So you don't care about your unnecessary c-section because you think it guaranteed your health and that of your baby? Well, good for you. But that's silly to me. It's just silly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

Anyone who comes to this forum and likens home birth to not wearing your seat belt is ignoring the real actual scientific data (which may or may not say that planned home births are as safe or safer than planned hospital births, but definitely do not say that planned home births are as dangerous as not wearing your seat belt).

Not the above PP, but I think what many people react to is the sense that you could be gambling with your baby's health/life if something goes wrong. I think home birth could be more appropriately compared to, say, mountain climbing. An amazing and beautiful experience when done with the proper precautions and knowledge about what you're getting into -- potentially life-threatening when it isn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

+1

But you can't argue with these women. They are convinced what they did was responsible and the best decision.

This is either "Dr" Amy or one of her minions. Please go away and leave us alone to argue among ourselves. We don't need your cavalry.

And to the PP who said that "Dr" Amy is in favor of CNMs and better regulation of homebirths, it's very clear that she's on a witch hunt and she doesn't care one bit who she hurts. If that was really the case she might actually be doing something useful because the licensing and regulation of non-CNM midwives is all over the place, not to mention that in many states CNMs have unnecessary and unreasonable restrictions placed on them that prevent them from operating to the full extent of their scope of practice. What she is actually doing instead is trying to drive (particularly non-CNM) midwives underground and curtail women's birth choices.

I have no idea who "Dr" Amy is, and I am not one of her minions. I am just a normal professional working person who thinks the risks women take with home birth are ridiculous. You can disagree. But that is my opinion (based on evidence).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

+1

But you can't argue with these women. They are convinced what they did was responsible and the best decision.

This is either "Dr" Amy or one of her minions. Please go away and leave us alone to argue among ourselves. We don't need your cavalry.

And to the PP who said that "Dr" Amy is in favor of CNMs and better regulation of homebirths, it's very clear that she's on a witch hunt and she doesn't care one bit who she hurts. If that was really the case she might actually be doing something useful because the licensing and regulation of non-CNM midwives is all over the place, not to mention that in many states CNMs have unnecessary and unreasonable restrictions placed on them that prevent them from operating to the full extent of their scope of practice. What she is actually doing instead is trying to drive (particularly non-CNM) midwives underground and curtail women's birth choices.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.[/quote]


+1

But you can't argue with these women. They are convinced what they did was responsible and the best decision. [/quote]

Wow do you need some perspective. EVERY woman thinks this about their birth, every one posting here anyway. The objections to home birth on this thread boil down to "it's more risky than I'm comfortable with, so nobody should do it"! With a nice side of "i'M reasonable but YOU PEOPLE are crazy!" (From both sides)

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

Anyone who comes to this forum and likens home birth to not wearing your seat belt is ignoring the real actual scientific data (which may or may not say that planned home births are as safe or safer than planned hospital births, but definitely do not say that planned home births are as dangerous as not wearing your seat belt).

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

+1

But you can't argue with these women. They are convinced what they did was responsible and the best decision.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

I thought hospitals are great, until you think you want to have a regular (boring?!) birth of your baby.

Anyone who comes to this forum and advocates for home birth might as well come in and advocate for ignoring seat belts and car seats. Sure, nothing bad will happen ... until you crash.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "Beetlejuice" refers to Amy Tuteur, the "skeptical OB".

And, indeed, any rational, evidence-based discussion of home births is over when Amy Tuteur shows up.

(Actually I wondered when Amy Tuteur would show up.)

You have to put "OB" in quotes since she's unlicensed and has no practice. But she did go to med school, people! LOL. When she's not working to defend mothers from greater freedom of choice in birth and safer home birth options, she's working hard to convince mothers not to breastfeed.

Amy, go be a polemic and a troll on your own blog. Nobody wants you here.

Holy cripes! Dr Amy breastfeed all four of her children. She has not ever told anyone to not breastfeed. She tells people who look down on those who formula feed to knock it off. She supports a womans choice to formula feed and thinks the "mommy wars" about breastfeeding vs formula feeding are stupid. Which they are.

Also, OB is not in quotes because she is a Doctor of Obstetric medicine. Retiring from a practice does not negate the fact that you earned a doctorate degree in whatever field you studied. Also, Dr. Amy doesn't have a problem with homebirths per se. She has a HUGE problem with CPM's who don't know what the fuck they are doing and killing babies. She thinks CNM's are great. Her biggest crusade if to make people informed about the risks and to have midwives licensed, regulated, and carry liability insurance. In the US, where she is, there is a HUGE lacking in regulation to ensure that midwives know what the fuck they are doing.