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Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Or not. I was taught from an early age that a car is a depreciable asset (if you can even call it an asset) and the money is better invested. So was my spouse. A car gets you from Point A to Point B at various levels of comfort, reliability and ostentation. I think there are plenty of insecure strivers here who like to flaunt their wealth (and sometimes fake wealth). That Range Rover or Porsche conveys much more about your values and priorities than my Toyota or Honda ever will.

Except many people here drive the Toyotas and Hondas precisely in order to prove a point about their values and priorities. That's the tone of this whole thread.

Or maybe we drive our Toyota's because they are deeply reliable cars that run well and require very little upkeep. I've had mine for 20 years and it will not die. As a result, my brand loyalty for this car is insane. I'm not "proving a point." I just want a simple car that I can depend on.

That is not how you or the other responders phrased it. It is partly about signaling, even if of course you like the car. When a millionaire is driving an ancient car with some major safety issues (not sure if that was you), they're doing it to prove something, to the detriment of their safety.

DP here. Does that bother you? Who cares?

I’m a PP. Yes, it clearly bothers that poster because it forces them to do some navel gazing about their own choices and values. They like to use the “safety” straw man to draw a distinction here for one PP’s comment. But that’s a red herring. My 20 year Honda is safe and reliable. It doesn’t have the latest side and rear sensors but does very well in crash tests. I can’t say the same about cars like the Porsche 911/930. And guess what? I’m saving a ton on maintenance, insurance, and loans that I get to bank for retirement and inheritance for my kids. They can peacock all they want but I for one am not impressed.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Or not. I was taught from an early age that a car is a depreciable asset (if you can even call it an asset) and the money is better invested. So was my spouse. A car gets you from Point A to Point B at various levels of comfort, reliability and ostentation. I think there are plenty of insecure strivers here who like to flaunt their wealth (and sometimes fake wealth). That Range Rover or Porsche conveys much more about your values and priorities than my Toyota or Honda ever will.

Except many people here drive the Toyotas and Hondas precisely in order to prove a point about their values and priorities. That's the tone of this whole thread.

Or maybe we drive our Toyota's because they are deeply reliable cars that run well and require very little upkeep. I've had mine for 20 years and it will not die. As a result, my brand loyalty for this car is insane. I'm not "proving a point." I just want a simple car that I can depend on.

That is not how you or the other responders phrased it. It is partly about signaling, even if of course you like the car. When a millionaire is driving an ancient car with some major safety issues (not sure if that was you), they're doing it to prove something, to the detriment of their safety.

DP here. Does that bother you? Who cares?

Why does anybody care about anything? We're discussing people and their car purchases.

It’s just weird that you are judging the for driving an old car. Seems like a weird thing to care about.

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Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Or not. I was taught from an early age that a car is a depreciable asset (if you can even call it an asset) and the money is better invested. So was my spouse. A car gets you from Point A to Point B at various levels of comfort, reliability and ostentation. I think there are plenty of insecure strivers here who like to flaunt their wealth (and sometimes fake wealth). That Range Rover or Porsche conveys much more about your values and priorities than my Toyota or Honda ever will.

Except many people here drive the Toyotas and Hondas precisely in order to prove a point about their values and priorities. That's the tone of this whole thread.

Or maybe we drive our Toyota's because they are deeply reliable cars that run well and require very little upkeep. I've had mine for 20 years and it will not die. As a result, my brand loyalty for this car is insane. I'm not "proving a point." I just want a simple car that I can depend on.

That is not how you or the other responders phrased it. It is partly about signaling, even if of course you like the car. When a millionaire is driving an ancient car with some major safety issues (not sure if that was you), they're doing it to prove something, to the detriment of their safety.

DP here. Does that bother you? Who cares?

Why does anybody care about anything? We're discussing people and their car purchases.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Or not. I was taught from an early age that a car is a depreciable asset (if you can even call it an asset) and the money is better invested. So was my spouse. A car gets you from Point A to Point B at various levels of comfort, reliability and ostentation. I think there are plenty of insecure strivers here who like to flaunt their wealth (and sometimes fake wealth). That Range Rover or Porsche conveys much more about your values and priorities than my Toyota or Honda ever will.

Except many people here drive the Toyotas and Hondas precisely in order to prove a point about their values and priorities. That's the tone of this whole thread.

Or maybe we drive our Toyota's because they are deeply reliable cars that run well and require very little upkeep. I've had mine for 20 years and it will not die. As a result, my brand loyalty for this car is insane. I'm not "proving a point." I just want a simple car that I can depend on.

That is not how you or the other responders phrased it. It is partly about signaling, even if of course you like the car. When a millionaire is driving an ancient car with some major safety issues (not sure if that was you), they're doing it to prove something, to the detriment of their safety.

DP here. Does that bother you? Who cares?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Or not. I was taught from an early age that a car is a depreciable asset (if you can even call it an asset) and the money is better invested. So was my spouse. A car gets you from Point A to Point B at various levels of comfort, reliability and ostentation. I think there are plenty of insecure strivers here who like to flaunt their wealth (and sometimes fake wealth). That Range Rover or Porsche conveys much more about your values and priorities than my Toyota or Honda ever will.

Except many people here drive the Toyotas and Hondas precisely in order to prove a point about their values and priorities. That's the tone of this whole thread.

Or maybe we drive our Toyota's because they are deeply reliable cars that run well and require very little upkeep. I've had mine for 20 years and it will not die. As a result, my brand loyalty for this car is insane. I'm not "proving a point." I just want a simple car that I can depend on.

That is not how you or the other responders phrased it. It is partly about signaling, even if of course you like the car. When a millionaire is driving an ancient car with some major safety issues (not sure if that was you), they're doing it to prove something, to the detriment of their safety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Or not. I was taught from an early age that a car is a depreciable asset (if you can even call it an asset) and the money is better invested. So was my spouse. A car gets you from Point A to Point B at various levels of comfort, reliability and ostentation. I think there are plenty of insecure strivers here who like to flaunt their wealth (and sometimes fake wealth). That Range Rover or Porsche conveys much more about your values and priorities than my Toyota or Honda ever will.

Except many people here drive the Toyotas and Hondas precisely in order to prove a point about their values and priorities. That's the tone of this whole thread.

Or maybe we drive our Toyota's because they are deeply reliable cars that run well and require very little upkeep. I've had mine for 20 years and it will not die. As a result, my brand loyalty for this car is insane. I'm not "proving a point." I just want a simple car that I can depend on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Or not. I was taught from an early age that a car is a depreciable asset (if you can even call it an asset) and the money is better invested. So was my spouse. A car gets you from Point A to Point B at various levels of comfort, reliability and ostentation. I think there are plenty of insecure strivers here who like to flaunt their wealth (and sometimes fake wealth). That Range Rover or Porsche conveys much more about your values and priorities than my Toyota or Honda ever will.

Except many people here drive the Toyotas and Hondas precisely in order to prove a point about their values and priorities. That's the tone of this whole thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Or not. I was taught from an early age that a car is a depreciable asset (if you can even call it an asset) and the money is better invested. So was my spouse. A car gets you from Point A to Point B at various levels of comfort, reliability and ostentation. I think there are plenty of insecure strivers here who like to flaunt their wealth (and sometimes fake wealth). That Range Rover or Porsche conveys much more about your values and priorities than my Toyota or Honda ever will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

No. I appreciate saving hundreds every month. We would not have gotten rich if we spent on fancy cars etc. I guess we could start to now, but I haven't missed it so why start now? Maybe once my kids are out of the house, I will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I drive a 2007 Honda- multi million net worth. Sorry to deflate OP’s balloon.

Hey, right there with you! 20 year old Honda with $4+ million net worth. Having low maintenance costs, no car loans, low insurance ($700/year) is a beautiful thing. So is not worrying about another dent. That said, it’s getting to the point where the buttons are starting to fall off and the dashboard is cracking. I’ll probably buy a new Toyota with cash sometime soon and drive it for another 20 years.

Wow, there are 3-4 of us here on this thread! I love it!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

I don't think these people are even cheap. I think they are cosplaying wasps.

Anonymous wrote:I drive a 2007 Honda- multi million net worth. Sorry to deflate OP’s balloon.

Are you me? Same situation!

Anonymous wrote:6.3 million net worth and 750k HHi early 40s. We buy cars in the 55-75k range. Trade in current cars every 4-5 years or so and add 10k down each time. Finance the rest so we have a small payment. Literally don’t notice this in our budget.

Why not drive a mid higher end / fun to drive car when it barely makes a dent?

Because some people are cheap or just think it’s brag worthy to drive a 20 year old beater. My parents were like this. We had to ride around in unsafe, embarrassing cars. But hey, at least I’ll inherit a lot of money?? I can afford nice cars, and I buy them. Doesn’t affect our budget one way or another.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:it’s a lie the class obsessed tell themselves to soothe their feelings of inadequacy.

Well, it's how UMC can become wealthy. For those who truly make a ton of money or inherited it, they don't need to do this.

We make $400k in the DC suburbs. We have a smaller SFH in a good neighborhood with excellent public schools. We drive our cars for 10+ years and buy a standard Toyota/Honda. If we had upgraded the house, cars, and/or paid for private schools, we would not be saving nearly as much and would just be working each month to pay for our expenses. Being frugal has been a game changer - you can't make it up on Starbucks and homemade lunches. It's because our monthly expenses are $5000+ lower than they could be, and we are investing all of that and have been for years.

100 percent this. We have a $2000/month mortgage and no car payment and are able to fuel that extra money into the market and just see it grow, which gives us room to fund things that we actually want and to feel a deep sense of security.

Years of reading "FIRE" blogs like Mr. Money Mustache also really sunk in after a while, though we are not FIRE people necessarily. But the main points he makes -- using money to buy freedom rather than things, and only spend your money and objects that actually increase your happiness or make your life easier. And, live somewhere where you are not car dependent.

What year did you buy your home in?

Here we go again. “I have to be broke! I had no choice but to take out an $8k/month mortgage! It’s all someone else’s fault, of course never mine.”

NP-It's a valid question. I personally bought my home when I could pay a low cost for it, so I have a low mortgage. The same home (boring 90s home in a burb with good public schools) and similar homes are now going for over twice what we paid. Timing plays a huge part and it's not about "having to be broke" but just the sorts of reasonable, frugal choices you can make. Your choices and mine were really easy.

Speak for yourself. My choices were not easy at all. Getting my boring SFH in the exurbs still required a lot of frugality and some other stops on the property ladder. And it STILL isn’t renovated all these years later, just new paint and lights and live with the rest. Most of these whiners wouldn’t even buy the house I live in. Boohoo for them!

Agree. I grew up with financial insecurity, so becoming financially independent was huge for me. I may work until I'm in my 50s, 60s, or 70s, but I have no stress if that isn't the case. Buying cheaper cars/houses etc made that possible. If I valued these material things, perhaps I would be committed to working later, no questions, and buying these larger ticket items. Seems stressful to me but again, my perspective is shaped by my childhood.

You are both missing the point. These choices are no longer possible: My 1k car that run great, 400k home with good schools in a safe area...Those choices are gone. Sure, young people can try and make frugal choices, but a frugal used car is now 18k, a home is 850k on my street if you get lucky and not outbid by cash offers. And yes, I get it, you have peers your age who overextended on mortgages and bought 60k cars and you made better decisions than them. That is not what I was talking about: I'm talking about people like you with your good frugal sense, just 30+ years later.

I remember graduating from college in 2002 and feeling that the odds were stacked against me. Housing was already expensive, cars were already expensive, there was a brief recession / slow hiring market that overlapped with being a 2002 graduate. With average first time salaries in the 40ks from my fancy private college, how could I ever contemplate owning a house that'd cost 300k!

Naturally those fears didn't materialize. I worked hard and slowly built my equity. Now 24 years later I am comfortably established, own a nice house, have excellent investments. And will say it's the last 5-6 years when it really felt like wealth was accumulating. I mentioned this to my parents, who are in their 70s, and they laughed and told me the same thing happened to them. The first 20 years after college was the mad scramble of working and saving money and always feeling like you were slipping behind and fearing inflation and job insecurities and rising real estate prices, then everything fell into place. Compounding is a real factor, both in career progression and wealth accumulation.

It does help to make smart decisions along the way. Be frugal, every penny counts, watch your career carefully, make proactive decisions, marry well. All of that goes a long way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it’s a lie the class obsessed tell themselves to soothe their feelings of inadequacy.

Well, it's how UMC can become wealthy. For those who truly make a ton of money or inherited it, they don't need to do this.

We make $400k in the DC suburbs. We have a smaller SFH in a good neighborhood with excellent public schools. We drive our cars for 10+ years and buy a standard Toyota/Honda. If we had upgraded the house, cars, and/or paid for private schools, we would not be saving nearly as much and would just be working each month to pay for our expenses. Being frugal has been a game changer - you can't make it up on Starbucks and homemade lunches. It's because our monthly expenses are $5000+ lower than they could be, and we are investing all of that and have been for years.

100 percent this. We have a $2000/month mortgage and no car payment and are able to fuel that extra money into the market and just see it grow, which gives us room to fund things that we actually want and to feel a deep sense of security.

Years of reading "FIRE" blogs like Mr. Money Mustache also really sunk in after a while, though we are not FIRE people necessarily. But the main points he makes -- using money to buy freedom rather than things, and only spend your money and objects that actually increase your happiness or make your life easier. And, live somewhere where you are not car dependent.

What year did you buy your home in?

Here we go again. “I have to be broke! I had no choice but to take out an $8k/month mortgage! It’s all someone else’s fault, of course never mine.”

NP-It's a valid question. I personally bought my home when I could pay a low cost for it, so I have a low mortgage. The same home (boring 90s home in a burb with good public schools) and similar homes are now going for over twice what we paid. Timing plays a huge part and it's not about "having to be broke" but just the sorts of reasonable, frugal choices you can make. Your choices and mine were really easy.

Speak for yourself. My choices were not easy at all. Getting my boring SFH in the exurbs still required a lot of frugality and some other stops on the property ladder. And it STILL isn’t renovated all these years later, just new paint and lights and live with the rest. Most of these whiners wouldn’t even buy the house I live in. Boohoo for them!

Agree. I grew up with financial insecurity, so becoming financially independent was huge for me. I may work until I'm in my 50s, 60s, or 70s, but I have no stress if that isn't the case. Buying cheaper cars/houses etc made that possible. If I valued these material things, perhaps I would be committed to working later, no questions, and buying these larger ticket items. Seems stressful to me but again, my perspective is shaped by my childhood.

You are both missing the point. These choices are no longer possible: My 1k car that run great, 400k home with good schools in a safe area...Those choices are gone. Sure, young people can try and make frugal choices, but a frugal used car is now 18k, a home is 850k on my street if you get lucky and not outbid by cash offers. And yes, I get it, you have peers your age who overextended on mortgages and bought 60k cars and you made better decisions than them. That is not what I was talking about: I'm talking about people like you with your good frugal sense, just 30+ years later.

I do get it, but the conversation wasn't really focused on young adults now. Even now it comes down to starting to save early AND getting lucky - get a job out of college with no student loans (both easier said than done), get roommates even if you can afford your own place so you can save for retirement, meet and marry a smart partner who also has good earning potential and who has simple wants, make friends who don't hemorrhage money in their social activities and aren't showy.

That's not helpful for someone 40 and trying to figure it out now. But tell your kids! And also, be prepared to help them in young adulthood if you can. 10 years ago, I used to think kids should be fully independent and make it on their own, but no more. I will do all I can to help them - pay for college, contribute to their ROTH IRA, etc. etc. Because as you said, it's not as easy as it used to be, but even then many people weren't saving as they could. It is very sad but that's where we are.