Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What it seems like is that there is significant race based income disparity with each group having a median in DC about $100,000 at $60,000 and $168,000 and tailing off in each direction - there’s a valley in the middle, it’s not empty, but it’s a gap.

Geographically income and race are probably sorted so that the black households above median black household income are less likely to be Wards 7 and 8. And the white households below median white household income are probably not in the most expensive housing in Ward 3. So if you’re looking for a middle class in DC, you might find it in Wards 1, 4, and 5. 2 and 6 maybe.

But these are the middle tails of a distribution, so the middle class isn’t the “nearly-everyone you see in normal life” percentage many Americans believe it to be.

Spoken like some someone who has never been to Hillcrest (and probably never been to Ward 7 and 8 at all). Median housing price $500,000, which couldn't be more typically middle class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What it seems like is that there is significant race based income disparity with each group having a median in DC about $100,000 at $60,000 and $168,000 and tailing off in each direction - there’s a valley in the middle, it’s not empty, but it’s a gap.

Geographically income and race are probably sorted so that the black households above median black household income are less likely to be Wards 7 and 8. And the white households below median white household income are probably not in the most expensive housing in Ward 3. So if you’re looking for a middle class in DC, you might find it in Wards 1, 4, and 5. 2 and 6 maybe.

But these are the middle tails of a distribution, so the middle class isn’t the “nearly-everyone you see in normal life” percentage many Americans believe it to be.

Spoken like some someone who has never been to Hillcrest (and probably never been to Ward 7 and 8 at all). Median housing price $500,000, which couldn't be more typically middle class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Hillcrest is a wonderful place. I’ve heard it’s all $7M homes.

I mean, Vince Gray lived in Ward 7. There are many, many upper middle class Black families there.

Yes, the stats are what they are. The anecdotes are what they are.

And the Black middle class is invisible to lots of white people in DC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Hillcrest is a wonderful place. I’ve heard it’s all $7M homes.

I mean, Vince Gray lived in Ward 7. There are many, many upper middle class Black families there.

Yes, the stats are what they are. The anecdotes are what they are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Hillcrest is a wonderful place. I’ve heard it’s all $7M homes.

I mean, Vince Gray lived in Ward 7. There are many, many upper middle class Black families there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

Because not every home in that school zone is a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom SFH with a pool.

There are not really poor people living IB for Mann or Key, but there are UMC people whose homes didn't cost anywhere near that much. And the people whose homes do cost that much don't send their kids to Mann or Key.

Hard to buy a home for Key or Mann for less than $2.5 million. UMC people cannot afford the mortgage on a $2 million home (it's about $13,000 per month assuming you put down 20 percent).

Yes but many people bought their homes more than 5 years ago, when rates and homes were lower.

But you're right there must be some kids of genuinely wealthy people attending these schools. I say this as someone who thinks my kid is getting a good education in DCPS: it is WILD to me that someone could afford to own a house that pricy and put your kids in public schools. I know private school is expensive, but if I had that kind of money, I would not be putting up with some of the stuff you have to put up with in DCPS. I'd happy live in a smaller home, in a less ritzy neighborhood, and buy my kids the best childhood and education I could find.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Hillcrest is a wonderful place. I’ve heard it’s all $7M homes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

Because not every home in that school zone is a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom SFH with a pool.

There are not really poor people living IB for Mann or Key, but there are UMC people whose homes didn't cost anywhere near that much. And the people whose homes do cost that much don't send their kids to Mann or Key.

Hard to buy a home for Key or Mann for less than $2.5 million. UMC people cannot afford the mortgage on a $2 million home (it's about $13,000 per month assuming you put down 20 percent).

Anonymous wrote:What it seems like is that there is significant race based income disparity with each group having a median in DC about $100,000 at $60,000 and $168,000 and tailing off in each direction - there’s a valley in the middle, it’s not empty, but it’s a gap.

Geographically income and race are probably sorted so that the black households above median black household income are less likely to be Wards 7 and 8. And the white households below median white household income are probably not in the most expensive housing in Ward 3. So if you’re looking for a middle class in DC, you might find it in Wards 1, 4, and 5. 2 and 6 maybe.

But these are the middle tails of a distribution, so the middle class isn’t the “nearly-everyone you see in normal life” percentage many Americans believe it to be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

There are quite a few kids of law firm partners at our local Hill ES. If you live on the Hill, most big name private schools are not worth the commute in ES and lots of (even wealthy) folks think CHDS isn’t worth the difference for ES, especially if you have multiple kids. Maybe it’s different if Beauvoir is next door?

Now I agree that those kids are not heading to SH, and certainly not to EH or Jefferson, but elementary school? They definitely are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

Because not every home in that school zone is a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom SFH with a pool.

There are not really poor people living IB for Mann or Key, but there are UMC people whose homes didn't cost anywhere near that much. And the people whose homes do cost that much don't send their kids to Mann or Key.

Hard to buy a home for Key or Mann for less than $2.5 million. UMC people cannot afford the mortgage on a $2 million home (it's about $13,000 per month assuming you put down 20 percent).

Yes but many people bought their homes more than 5 years ago, when rates and homes were lower.

But you're right there must be some kids of genuinely wealthy people attending these schools. I say this as someone who thinks my kid is getting a good education in DCPS: it is WILD to me that someone could afford to own a house that pricy and put your kids in public schools. I know private school is expensive, but if I had that kind of money, I would not be putting up with some of the stuff you have to put up with in DCPS. I'd happy live in a smaller home, in a less ritzy neighborhood, and buy my kids the best childhood and education I could find.

It’s sad you think money can buy your kid the best childhood. My kid is thriving in a DCPS school and having a great childhood. Private school doesn’t equal the best childhood.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

Because not every home in that school zone is a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom SFH with a pool.

There are not really poor people living IB for Mann or Key, but there are UMC people whose homes didn't cost anywhere near that much. And the people whose homes do cost that much don't send their kids to Mann or Key.

Hard to buy a home for Key or Mann for less than $2.5 million. UMC people cannot afford the mortgage on a $2 million home (it's about $13,000 per month assuming you put down 20 percent).

Yes but many people bought their homes more than 5 years ago, when rates and homes were lower.

But you're right there must be some kids of genuinely wealthy people attending these schools. I say this as someone who thinks my kid is getting a good education in DCPS: it is WILD to me that someone could afford to own a house that pricy and put your kids in public schools. I know private school is expensive, but if I had that kind of money, I would not be putting up with some of the stuff you have to put up with in DCPS. I'd happy live in a smaller home, in a less ritzy neighborhood, and buy my kids the best childhood and education I could find.