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Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

No, they are mostly atheists.

AKA they are as certain about the existence of various gods as they are about fairies and leprechauns.

Do we go around saying we are Santa agnostic? No.

Except I think most agnostics acknowledge there is a difference between deities and fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Only self-described atheists insist on pretending all these things are equal for the sake of a tired argument.

They are all manufactured characters so...they are the same thing wrt "existence".

Dieties and fairies/leprechauns/Santa aren't all equal, but they are all supernatural. Both adults and children believe in Deities (God). Only children believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Adults no longer believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. They think they're silly and childish, but many adults still believe in God. They take God very seriously.

Right. They are all figments of their imagination.

Just last night, I saw a short, (1:57 min) George Carlin video on religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtMEE . In it, he says something like "There's a man in the sky, who will punish you in a fiery pit for eternity if you disobey any of the 10 things he told you not to do - but he loves you." It's priceless.

Another atheist comedian gets Christianity wrong. Not a surprise.

That short video about god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtMEE is not wrong. it's so right. Christians do actually believe that "there's a man in the sky, who will punish you in a fiery pit for eternity if you disobey any of the 10 things he told you not to do - but he loves you." That's certainly what I learned when I was a Christian - not in those words, of course, but that was the message: "Be good or burn in hell forever!"

I can categorically say that as a Christian, I don’t believe that. Here is what I believe

1. There is no gender in the spirit
2. God is love, light and transcends time. space and place.
3. God shows love and mercy to all.
4. God knows the inner thoughts of all and knows our motivations.
5. Any thought or action that we carry out that is motivated by selfless love is of God and therefore transcends time and place and will endure after our physical bodies pass awY.
6. Everything in this life shall pass but God’s love and mercy endures forever
7. There are many paths to God and there is room for all of us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be both agnostic AND atheist by the way. I don’t know (of course I don’t ) but I don’t believe in a god.

In addition, I would bet that most atheists seem antagonistic towards religion for the same reason - they see the harm it has done on and individual level (often themselves ) and on a human level . So then that leads to a good reason to dislike religion

Believers don't believe that believing causes harm.

Well then they need to read about the harm in believing and learn about those harms. There is plenty of insidious harm besides the more overt harm. Even the more moderate sects of Christianity for example (there are tens of thousands of sects of Christianity ) are giving cover to the extreme fundamentalist sects who are perpetrating obvious harm.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

No, they are mostly atheists.

AKA they are as certain about the existence of various gods as they are about fairies and leprechauns.

Do we go around saying we are Santa agnostic? No.

Except I think most agnostics acknowledge there is a difference between deities and fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Only self-described atheists insist on pretending all these things are equal for the sake of a tired argument.

They are all manufactured characters so...they are the same thing wrt "existence".

Dieties and fairies/leprechauns/Santa aren't all equal, but they are all supernatural. Both adults and children believe in Deities (God). Only children believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Adults no longer believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. They think they're silly and childish, but many adults still believe in God. They take God very seriously.

Right. They are all figments of their imagination.

Just last night, I saw a short, (1:57 min) George Carlin video on religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtMEE . In it, he says something like "There's a man in the sky, who will punish you in a fiery pit for eternity if you disobey any of the 10 things he told you not to do - but he loves you." It's priceless.

Another atheist comedian gets Christianity wrong. Not a surprise.

That short video about god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtMEE is not wrong. it's so right. Christians do actually believe that "there's a man in the sky, who will punish you in a fiery pit for eternity if you disobey any of the 10 things he told you not to do - but he loves you." That's certainly what I learned when I was a Christian - not in those words, of course, but that was the message: "Be good or burn in hell forever!"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

No, they are mostly atheists.

AKA they are as certain about the existence of various gods as they are about fairies and leprechauns.

Do we go around saying we are Santa agnostic? No.

Except I think most agnostics acknowledge there is a difference between deities and fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Only self-described atheists insist on pretending all these things are equal for the sake of a tired argument.

They are all manufactured characters so...they are the same thing wrt "existence".

Dieties and fairies/leprechauns/Santa aren't all equal, but they are all supernatural. Both adults and children believe in Deities (God). Only children believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Adults no longer believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. They think they're silly and childish, but many adults still believe in God. They take God very seriously.

Right. They are all figments of their imagination.

Just last night, I saw a short, (1:57 min) George Carlin video on religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtMEE . In it, he says something like "There's a man in the sky, who will punish you in a fiery pit for eternity if you disobey any of the 10 things he told you not to do - but he loves you." It's priceless.

Another atheist comedian gets Christianity wrong. Not a surprise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

No, they are mostly atheists.

AKA they are as certain about the existence of various gods as they are about fairies and leprechauns.

Do we go around saying we are Santa agnostic? No.

Except I think most agnostics acknowledge there is a difference between deities and fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Only self-described atheists insist on pretending all these things are equal for the sake of a tired argument.

They are all manufactured characters so...they are the same thing wrt "existence".

Dieties and fairies/leprechauns/Santa aren't all equal, but they are all supernatural. Both adults and children believe in Deities (God). Only children believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Adults no longer believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. They think they're silly and childish, but many adults still believe in God. They take God very seriously.

Right. They are all figments of their imagination.

Just last night, I saw a short, (1:57 min) George Carlin video on religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtMEE . In it, he says something like "There's a man in the sky, who will punish you in a fiery pit for eternity if you disobey any of the 10 things he told you not to do - but he loves you." It's priceless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be both agnostic AND atheist by the way. I don’t know (of course I don’t ) but I don’t believe in a god.

In addition, I would bet that most atheists seem antagonistic towards religion for the same reason - they see the harm it has done on and individual level (often themselves ) and on a human level . So then that leads to a good reason to dislike religion

That depends on which definition you use...

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/
agnostic vs. atheist
There is a key distinction between these terms. An atheist doesn’t believe in the existence of a god or divine being. The word atheist originates with the Greek atheos, which is built from the roots a- (“without”) and theos (“a god”). Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no god.

In contrast, the word agnostic refers to a person who neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine. Agnostics assert that it’s impossible to know how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist.


https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/
The word “atheism” is polysemous—it has multiple related meanings.

[Atheism is] the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in god and is consistent with agnosticism [in the psychological sense]. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no god; this use has become standard. (Pojman 2015, emphasis added)

an agnostic is a person who has entertained the proposition that there is a God but believes neither that it is true nor that it is false.

Yes words can have different meanings... but most atheists define the term as simply a lack of belief with no claim being made.

Try and find one, here or publicly, who claims there are absolutely no gods. There are some, but they are rare. So the fact that it can mean a different thing than is most common doesn't mean they are equally weighted. They are not.

Just as I can say there are absolutely no fairies I can say there are absolutely no gods. Either you believe in supernatural forces or you don’t. Most atheists don’t.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be both agnostic AND atheist by the way. I don’t know (of course I don’t ) but I don’t believe in a god.

In addition, I would bet that most atheists seem antagonistic towards religion for the same reason - they see the harm it has done on and individual level (often themselves ) and on a human level . So then that leads to a good reason to dislike religion

That depends on which definition you use...

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/
agnostic vs. atheist
There is a key distinction between these terms. An atheist doesn’t believe in the existence of a god or divine being. The word atheist originates with the Greek atheos, which is built from the roots a- (“without”) and theos (“a god”). Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no god.

In contrast, the word agnostic refers to a person who neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine. Agnostics assert that it’s impossible to know how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist.


https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/
The word “atheism” is polysemous—it has multiple related meanings.

[Atheism is] the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in god and is consistent with agnosticism [in the psychological sense]. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no god; this use has become standard. (Pojman 2015, emphasis added)

an agnostic is a person who has entertained the proposition that there is a God but believes neither that it is true nor that it is false.

Yes words can have different meanings... but most atheists define the term as simply a lack of belief with no claim being made.

Try and find one, here or publicly, who claims there are absolutely no gods. There are some, but they are rare. So the fact that it can mean a different thing than is most common doesn't mean they are equally weighted. They are not.

Just as I can say there are absolutely no fairies I can say there are absolutely no gods. Either you believe in supernatural forces or you don’t. Most atheists don’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

No, they are mostly atheists.

AKA they are as certain about the existence of various gods as they are about fairies and leprechauns.

Do we go around saying we are Santa agnostic? No.

Except I think most agnostics acknowledge there is a difference between deities and fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Only self-described atheists insist on pretending all these things are equal for the sake of a tired argument.

They are all manufactured characters so...they are the same thing wrt "existence".

Dieties and fairies/leprechauns/Santa aren't all equal, but they are all supernatural. Both adults and children believe in Deities (God). Only children believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Adults no longer believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. They think they're silly and childish, but many adults still believe in God. They take God very seriously.

Right. They are all figments of their imagination.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

No, they are mostly atheists.

AKA they are as certain about the existence of various gods as they are about fairies and leprechauns.

Do we go around saying we are Santa agnostic? No.

Except I think most agnostics acknowledge there is a difference between deities and fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Only self-described atheists insist on pretending all these things are equal for the sake of a tired argument.

They are all manufactured characters so...they are the same thing wrt "existence".

Dieties and fairies/leprechauns/Santa aren't all equal, but they are all supernatural. Both adults and children believe in Deities (God). Only children believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Adults no longer believe in fairies/leprechauns/Santa. They think they're silly and childish, but many adults still believe in God. They take God very seriously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

The fact of the matter is that "agnostic" sounds softer than "atheist" and thus is easier to call yourself publicly. People often feel sorry for agnostics - assuming they are trying to believe, or want to believe, while the term atheist seems harsher.

How do I know? Just a guess. I've noticed that people are put off by atheists. Agnostics get pity and atheists get anger. I don't like either reaction.

DP -
I don’t think that is the reason from my experience with agnostics. It seems to be that for some people, intellectual honesty is better expressed through agnosticism - metaphysical beliefs cannot be proven or disproven through science. Certitude is foolish without evidence.

Very little in life is black and white. There are always different viewing lenses for understanding reality. Agnosticism more fully allows for lack of certitude in which to explore different aspects of reality.

I don’t feel pity for agnostics or atheists - everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

Yet I wager that all the believers here would say with certitude and intellectual honesty that they do not believe in fairies and goblins, who are supernatural beings, like God in the sense that you can't see them. Also, some people (adults, in the case of fairies and goblins) don't believe in them. Thus, agnosticism is not good if it, as pp suggests, allows for exploring "different aspects of reality".

Not sure I follow your reasoning but agree that most religious people are unlikely to also believe in leprechauns/ fairies/ goblins etc.

Examples of Areas where I thought agnostics may be open to alternative metaphysical explanations are:
- seemingly Miraculous recoveries (many medical doctors and nurses have experienced inexplicable recoveries of patients with extremely poor prognoses following their families or faith communities praying for them).
- near death experiences where people who do technically die physically for some period of time. They often report similar experiences of observing their bodies from somewhere else and realizing they are dead. Many describe a deep peace and deep desire to not return to their physical bodies. They often describe being informed that it is not their time to leave their embodied human lives yet)
- past life memories usually by children who remember details Of lives from historical periods where they could not have possibly
Known about.

I don’t know but that is my impression - not knowing opening up different possibilities.

Interestingly, Buddhists often recommend a mental state of not knowing as being essential to developing mindfulness. My art teacher recommends it for creating meaningful art.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be both agnostic AND atheist by the way. I don’t know (of course I don’t ) but I don’t believe in a god.

In addition, I would bet that most atheists seem antagonistic towards religion for the same reason - they see the harm it has done on and individual level (often themselves ) and on a human level . So then that leads to a good reason to dislike religion

That depends on which definition you use...

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/
agnostic vs. atheist
There is a key distinction between these terms. An atheist doesn’t believe in the existence of a god or divine being. The word atheist originates with the Greek atheos, which is built from the roots a- (“without”) and theos (“a god”). Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no god.

In contrast, the word agnostic refers to a person who neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine. Agnostics assert that it’s impossible to know how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist.


https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/
The word “atheism” is polysemous—it has multiple related meanings.

[Atheism is] the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in god and is consistent with agnosticism [in the psychological sense]. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no god; this use has become standard. (Pojman 2015, emphasis added)

an agnostic is a person who has entertained the proposition that there is a God but believes neither that it is true nor that it is false.

Yes words can have different meanings... but most atheists define the term as simply a lack of belief with no claim being made.

Try and find one, here or publicly, who claims there are absolutely no gods. There are some, but they are rare. So the fact that it can mean a different thing than is most common doesn't mean they are equally weighted. They are not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

The fact of the matter is that "agnostic" sounds softer than "atheist" and thus is easier to call yourself publicly. People often feel sorry for agnostics - assuming they are trying to believe, or want to believe, while the term atheist seems harsher.

How do I know? Just a guess. I've noticed that people are put off by atheists. Agnostics get pity and atheists get anger. I don't like either reaction.

DP -
I don’t think that is the reason from my experience with agnostics. It seems to be that for some people, intellectual honesty is better expressed through agnosticism - metaphysical beliefs cannot be proven or disproven through science. Certitude is foolish without evidence.

Very little in life is black and white. There are always different viewing lenses for understanding reality. Agnosticism more fully allows for lack of certitude in which to explore different aspects of reality.

I don’t feel pity for agnostics or atheists - everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

Yet I wager that all the believers here would say with certitude and intellectual honesty that they do not believe in fairies and goblins, who are supernatural beings, like God in the sense that you can't see them. Also, some people (adults, in the case of fairies and goblins) don't believe in them. Thus, agnosticism is not good if it, as pp suggests, allows for exploring "different aspects of reality".

Anonymous wrote:You can be both agnostic AND atheist by the way. I don’t know (of course I don’t ) but I don’t believe in a god.

In addition, I would bet that most atheists seem antagonistic towards religion for the same reason - they see the harm it has done on and individual level (often themselves ) and on a human level . So then that leads to a good reason to dislike religion

That depends on which definition you use...

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/
agnostic vs. atheist
There is a key distinction between these terms. An atheist doesn’t believe in the existence of a god or divine being. The word atheist originates with the Greek atheos, which is built from the roots a- (“without”) and theos (“a god”). Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no god.

In contrast, the word agnostic refers to a person who neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine. Agnostics assert that it’s impossible to know how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist.


https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/
The word “atheism” is polysemous—it has multiple related meanings.

[Atheism is] the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in god and is consistent with agnosticism [in the psychological sense]. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no god; this use has become standard. (Pojman 2015, emphasis added)

an agnostic is a person who has entertained the proposition that there is a God but believes neither that it is true nor that it is false.

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Anonymous wrote:Have discussions on this religion forum influenced you either away from or towards religion? If away, how? And if towards, which religion and why?

Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs.

The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead.

Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks.

Any believers are braindead, hence why they still believe in myths and fairy tales.

Way to underscore PP’s point

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” - Voltaire.

Aren't religious people certain that there is a God?

PP is agnostic, so probably takes issue with certainty about God just as much as certainty about no God.

Athiests are not people who are certain that there is no God. They are people who do not believe in God. They are a-thiests, that is, Not theists.

Also, adult believers only believe in God and not any other supernatural beings, like fairies or Santa Claus. Fairies and Santa are considered childish, but God is not.

What's the difference between atheist and agnostic then?

Merriam Webster has this useful context under its definition of atheist:
"How Agnostic Differs From Atheist
Atheist and agnostic appear in the same contexts but are distinct in meaning. Atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. Agnostic has two relevant meanings: it can refer to someone who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable, or it can refer to someone who is not committed to believing in either the existence or nonexistence of God or a god."
I get the impression that a lot of atheists on this forum are actually agnostic.

No, they are mostly atheists.

AKA they are as certain about the existence of various gods as they are about fairies and leprechauns.

Do we go around saying we are Santa agnostic? No.

Except I think most agnostics acknowledge there is a difference between deities and fairies/leprechauns/Santa. Only self-described atheists insist on pretending all these things are equal for the sake of a tired argument.

They are all manufactured characters so...they are the same thing wrt "existence".

Anonymous wrote:You can be both agnostic AND atheist by the way. I don’t know (of course I don’t ) but I don’t believe in a god.

In addition, I would bet that most atheists seem antagonistic towards religion for the same reason - they see the harm it has done on and individual level (often themselves ) and on a human level . So then that leads to a good reason to dislike religion

Believers don't believe that believing causes harm.