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Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

You’re forgetting about the genetics that are needed to create an elite athlete. You can bring the kid to reach his full potential by hard work, good nutrition and training but without certain genetics his full potential won’t be good enough.

Look at the Olympic sprinters. Do you think money would allow your child to be that fast? The ACTN3 gene, is sometimes referred to as the “athlete gene”. In our muscles, the two main types of muscle fibres are slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibres. These are the easily identified genes that can found on a DNA saliva test.

My family is middle class with a lot of athletes including pro athletes. Nobody needed crazy excessive training, no private coaches.

Both your lies about your family and your lack of understanding about how much training even the kid with great genetics undergo are comical.

Caleb Williams had a QB coach starting in 8th grade, Quincy Wilson has had professional coaching since 6th grade…the list goes on and on…

I don’t know, I think you have a pretty compelling list there of (let me count again) TWO examples of athletes who has professional coaching as kids. I think two gets you fully out of the realm of “anecdote” doesn’t it?

It’s everyone…considering you didnt even list your fake family pro athletes that’s infinitely more than your zero.

Name me one recent pro athlete that fits your description.

DP but are you asking for someone to name a professional athlete who got there not due to expensive private coaching but rather due to having superior genetics even though they were only middle class growing up?

You can’t be serious.

How can you possibly separate the two..even the ones with superior genetics all have private coaching. Everyone…they may get it for free or low cost…but they all get it.

So, yes name one that had no private coaching and turned pro.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s because parents are involved. They’ve ruined everything!

And that gets back to the foreign elite test mill culture that has taken root.

Omg it isn’t foreign elites. American parents are doing a fine job ruining sports on their own.

We are "foreign elite" - highly educated immigrants with high HHI. I can tell you that our parenting is changing American parents, I can see it with our American friends. I am talking about very high academic expectations in particular. Like, expectations of excellence in whatever they are doing. Not saying it's the only factor or anything, but there is a real effect there.

Ok, maybe, maybe not…. And?

Sfs, sta, h/p/y/s are still going to craft a statistically diverse class each year.

So your kid is mainly competing against their same race and gender for any and all applications.
Have at it.

Anonymous wrote:The landscape is way more competitive for all sports today. Stupid take

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Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

You’re forgetting about the genetics that are needed to create an elite athlete. You can bring the kid to reach his full potential by hard work, good nutrition and training but without certain genetics his full potential won’t be good enough.

Look at the Olympic sprinters. Do you think money would allow your child to be that fast? The ACTN3 gene, is sometimes referred to as the “athlete gene”. In our muscles, the two main types of muscle fibres are slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibres. These are the easily identified genes that can found on a DNA saliva test.

My family is middle class with a lot of athletes including pro athletes. Nobody needed crazy excessive training, no private coaches.

Both your lies about your family and your lack of understanding about how much training even the kid with great genetics undergo are comical.

Caleb Williams had a QB coach starting in 8th grade, Quincy Wilson has had professional coaching since 6th grade…the list goes on and on…

I don’t know, I think you have a pretty compelling list there of (let me count again) TWO examples of athletes who has professional coaching as kids. I think two gets you fully out of the realm of “anecdote” doesn’t it?

It’s everyone…considering you didnt even list your fake family pro athletes that’s infinitely more than your zero.

Name me one recent pro athlete that fits your description.

DP but are you asking for someone to name a professional athlete who got there not due to expensive private coaching but rather due to having superior genetics even though they were only middle class growing up?

You can’t be serious.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

You’re forgetting about the genetics that are needed to create an elite athlete. You can bring the kid to reach his full potential by hard work, good nutrition and training but without certain genetics his full potential won’t be good enough.

Look at the Olympic sprinters. Do you think money would allow your child to be that fast? The ACTN3 gene, is sometimes referred to as the “athlete gene”. In our muscles, the two main types of muscle fibres are slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibres. These are the easily identified genes that can found on a DNA saliva test.

My family is middle class with a lot of athletes including pro athletes. Nobody needed crazy excessive training, no private coaches.

Both your lies about your family and your lack of understanding about how much training even the kid with great genetics undergo are comical.

Caleb Williams had a QB coach starting in 8th grade, Quincy Wilson has had professional coaching since 6th grade…the list goes on and on…

I don’t know, I think you have a pretty compelling list there of (let me count again) TWO examples of athletes who has professional coaching as kids. I think two gets you fully out of the realm of “anecdote” doesn’t it?

It’s everyone…considering you didnt even list your fake family pro athletes that’s infinitely more than your zero.

Name me one recent pro athlete that fits your description.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

You’re forgetting about the genetics that are needed to create an elite athlete. You can bring the kid to reach his full potential by hard work, good nutrition and training but without certain genetics his full potential won’t be good enough.

Look at the Olympic sprinters. Do you think money would allow your child to be that fast? The ACTN3 gene, is sometimes referred to as the “athlete gene”. In our muscles, the two main types of muscle fibres are slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibres. These are the easily identified genes that can found on a DNA saliva test.

My family is middle class with a lot of athletes including pro athletes. Nobody needed crazy excessive training, no private coaches.

Both your lies about your family and your lack of understanding about how much training even the kid with great genetics undergo are comical.

Caleb Williams had a QB coach starting in 8th grade, Quincy Wilson has had professional coaching since 6th grade…the list goes on and on…

I don’t know, I think you have a pretty compelling list there of (let me count again) TWO examples of athletes who has professional coaching as kids. I think two gets you fully out of the realm of “anecdote” doesn’t it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s because parents are involved. They’ve ruined everything!

And that gets back to the foreign elite test mill culture that has taken root.

Omg it isn’t foreign elites. American parents are doing a fine job ruining sports on their own.

We are "foreign elite" - highly educated immigrants with high HHI. I can tell you that our parenting is changing American parents, I can see it with our American friends. I am talking about very high academic expectations in particular. Like, expectations of excellence in whatever they are doing. Not saying it's the only factor or anything, but there is a real effect there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

You’re forgetting about the genetics that are needed to create an elite athlete. You can bring the kid to reach his full potential by hard work, good nutrition and training but without certain genetics his full potential won’t be good enough.

Look at the Olympic sprinters. Do you think money would allow your child to be that fast? The ACTN3 gene, is sometimes referred to as the “athlete gene”. In our muscles, the two main types of muscle fibres are slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibres. These are the easily identified genes that can found on a DNA saliva test.

My family is middle class with a lot of athletes including pro athletes. Nobody needed crazy excessive training, no private coaches.

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Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who makes it look easy. He always makes the team and excels academically. He is hoping for an ivy.

I have another kid who is borderline good at everything and a third kid who is too young to tell. Not everyone will go to a T20 college and that is ok. My middle kid will probably go to a school like BU or Penn State. Your kid can go there too.

One of the problems is that your references to “BU and Penn State” are still top 60 colleges out of 3000…BU has a 14.4% acceptance rate…so no, most kids can’t “go there too”.

Everyone’s frame of reference is completely skewed. So, when you say not everyone will go to a top 20, you turn around and still only think top 50ish schools are worthwhile.

Agree with this! LOL. This lady feels like BU is slumming it but it's crazy hard to get into. Frankly almost as hard as several of the Ivies.
This area (DC) is so insane.

Pp here. My oldest is in high school. My middle kid is only in middle school. I have been looking at acceptance rates and my oldest is looking at all colleges with sub 10% acceptance rates and I’m confident he will get in.

My 7th grader has a lot of time. From our high school, it looks like BU is around 25-30% acceptance and Penn state is higher than 50%. BU is my oldest kid’s safety.

Seems like you are completely missing the point of the thread...or I gather you are fine with the competitive nature of the DMV.

I was feeling nervous from reading these threads about high stat kids getting rejected. In actuality, a lot of kids get into good schools. I mean if your kid has a 3.0, no but if your kid has almost straight As with rigor, 1500+ SAT and good extracurricular activities (not just sports), your kid should get into a T50.

Folks...this is lunacy...only the top 1% of all HS students score 1500+ on the SAT. There are several schools in the T50 where you can get accepted with stats much less than this (with basically no ECs)...and many in the top 100.

I was referencing my older child. I have no idea what my middle and younger child will be like in a few years.

Yes, it is hard to make sports teams. It is hard to get into a competitive college. There are plenty of average colleges and average people in the world. Many government workers went to no brand schools. You can become a nurse at any state school. The majority of the world is average.

WTF are you even talking about? You mentioned that it takes these incredible scores to get into a Top 50...it was then pointed out that there are several Top 50 schools where you don't need these scores...now it seems the Top 50 schools where those scores are not needed are "average colleges", I guess because they aren't as selective as you like?

There is more than one person posting. I am simply saying that there is a school for everyone. I should not have written BU or Northeastern. I know that depending on the family, these schools are out of reach. My oldest would be disappointed with these schools as well as UVA. I am very well aware that acceptance rates are low.

I don’t know anyone in real life who talks about or really wants to go to BU or Northeastern. I only read about it on these boards. We do know many people who shoot for Ivy+ other T30 schools and they all end up at decent schools with Elon, VT and Santa Clara type schools being at the bottom.

This is really area dependent. We live in TX in a rich area. We are the poor ones with a $600k HH income. Average HHI is 7 figures and most people went to state schools like Texas and A+M. Trust funds and business owners or C level execs. The ivy league doctors and engineers are the more average and middle class people in the area. People don’t really care about their kids going to top ranked schools. A solid school, yes but very few even try to go to the super competitive ones. Northwestern and BU would be considered pretty elite and impressive in our area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

You’re forgetting about the genetics that are needed to create an elite athlete. You can bring the kid to reach his full potential by hard work, good nutrition and training but without certain genetics his full potential won’t be good enough.

Look at the Olympic sprinters. Do you think money would allow your child to be that fast? The ACTN3 gene, is sometimes referred to as the “athlete gene”. In our muscles, the two main types of muscle fibres are slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibres. These are the easily identified genes that can found on a DNA saliva test.

My family is middle class with a lot of athletes including pro athletes. Nobody needed crazy excessive training, no private coaches.

Both your lies about your family and your lack of understanding about how much training even the kid with great genetics undergo are comical.

Caleb Williams had a QB coach starting in 8th grade, Quincy Wilson has had professional coaching since 6th grade…the list goes on and on…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

You’re forgetting about the genetics that are needed to create an elite athlete. You can bring the kid to reach his full potential by hard work, good nutrition and training but without certain genetics his full potential won’t be good enough.

Look at the Olympic sprinters. Do you think money would allow your child to be that fast? The ACTN3 gene, is sometimes referred to as the “athlete gene”. In our muscles, the two main types of muscle fibres are slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibres. These are the easily identified genes that can found on a DNA saliva test.

My family is middle class with a lot of athletes including pro athletes. Nobody needed crazy excessive training, no private coaches.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

You’re forgetting about the genetics that are needed to create an elite athlete. You can bring the kid to reach his full potential by hard work, good nutrition and training but without certain genetics his full potential won’t be good enough.

Look at the Olympic sprinters. Do you think money would allow your child to be that fast? The ACTN3 gene, is sometimes referred to as the “athlete gene”. In our muscles, the two main types of muscle fibres are slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibres. These are the easily identified genes that can found on a DNA saliva test.

My family is middle class with a lot of athletes including pro athletes. Nobody needed crazy excessive training, no private coaches.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not true at all. There are tons of sports that require wealth. Sure it helps if kids have an athletic physique once they go through puberty; however, wealth makes quite a difference in a lot of sports.

Downhill skiing, squash, tennis, golf, hockey, equestrian sports, fencing, ice skating are some examples of sports that require tons of money. My friend taught at a private school in Florida where it accommodated students' sports schedules which included swimming, tennis, equestrian sports, fencing and car racing. All of those kids were super wealthy.

Yes they may require money but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kids will be good. Are you seriously debating this

Are you kidding? You need money to get good in tennis or golf. Even Francis Tiafoe needs serious training that JTCC provided him for FREE due to his family situation. Scott Scheffler wouldn't be the best golfer in the world had his family was poor.

If you have kid A and B with the same athletic ability, but kid A has wealth and kid B is poor, kid A will come out ahead in athletic because kid A gets the best training money can buy.

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Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy League college and I used to interview for the school, but I stopped wasting my time when no one I interviewed ever got in. At least from that, I knew since my kids’ births that elite college admissions was a total crapshoot.

Sports - my oldest is doing great in HS in no cut activities - marching band and crew. I think the important thing is to be a joiner and get involved in literally anything you can enjoy.

College - maybe we are thinking VT or Penn State is more likely than UVA. I think grad school is the new college. I think my kids will likely go to grad school and that will help.

Work - I am honestly not that impressed with the younger people at work these days. I still think there is still a place for people to succeed who are dependable, responsive, and who take initiative to do the hard work.

I have good older role models. My grandmother lived in the same small un-updated ranch house from 1960-2023. You do NOT need a McMansion to be happy. You need to use something like YNAB / Ramit Sethi and take responsibility for your own finances and live within your means.

I don't really understand this mentality. There are tons of underemployed grad school graduates with really massive student loan debt. There are plenty of VT graduates doing well as engineers or other STEM fields, or working for Accenture, etc. Same for Penn State.

I’ve said this to someone else on here before - but my engineer dad has a masters. My spouse is a teacher and gets paid more with a masters. Most of my peers are employed and have graduate degrees. It’s not imperative but I think can be helpful in most fields if you do it right. But you don’t have to agree with me!

If I am not mistaken, a teacher gets an automatic pay bump for having a graduate degree...so, if you become a teacher you would of course go do that. There are similar government jobs that work this way as well.

However, even your examples are a far cry from "grad school is the new college", and you just have anecdotes. To this day, most CEOs (over 50%) have nothing more than a BA/BS.

Some people value education. Others don’t. It is fine if you don’t. I personally think it is the easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six figure income. I earned 200k+ out of grad school at age 27 and that 20 years ago.

That's a silly argument...law school isn't "education", it's vocational training...getting an MBA isn't "education", it's again vocational training and networking.

You even don't seem to value education as you described it as the "easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six-figure income".

You sound dumb. I’m sure we don’t travel in the same circles.

You sound downright moronic. We probably don't because my circle includes CEOs, P/E principals, investment bank co-founders...just my little circle of successful folks without graduate degrees.

Right back at you. The investment bankers, PE, VC people we know mostly all have ivy mbas. I dont know what kind of crap IB cofounders you know.

The rich ones? You know you can’t win this game right, when the actual richest people in the country (vs your fictional friends) don’t have graduate degrees…and many don’t even have college degrees.

I don’t even know why I am wasting time with some random person on the internet. I’m very proud of my ivy degrees. DH had to work hard for his Ivy MD education. That is fine if you don’t value these but we do. My dad was a professor and has 4 degrees.

We are getting older and I don’t really care much about anything anymore. I don’t put pressure on our kids. I really don’t care about your rich friends or mine. My kids are smart and can compete in a highly competitive environment. Most people we socialize with went to grad school and my kids want to attend top colleges. It is fine if you didn’t or don’t want your kids to go to a top college and grad school.

NP. But why are you making these weird flexes? I promise you, there are a lot of doctors making equal or more than your DH that never went to Ivy schools. In fact, most Ivy degree doctors work in academia/research and don’t make very much at all.

This thread is about competition from a young age. Competition includes education. Many people would choose the better college or grad school given the opportunity. If a kid can go to Yale law vs GW, s/he would choose Yale. I’m not sure why people often knock down elite schools. I see the same for private schools like STA, NCS, Sidwell, etc. If is fine if you don’t want this for your children or simply can’t afford it. You don’t have to put others down for it though.

But elite school does not equal higher paying job, not even close. I know many Ivy grads making middle class wages for DC area. I know many no name state university grads making 7 figures.

On average, an ivy grad is much wealthier. They started rich though. Top 1% is much more likely to get accepted into an ivy, more likely being at top .1%.

Yes, seriously. Have you seen the NY Times model of upward income mobility? It compares all the schools and tracks people after too. Something like 30 percent of ivy league students are born in the top 1-2 percent. Your kid isn’t that special if they were born on home base and went to an ivy.