Anonymous wrote:I'm revisiting this because, this year again, I see many highly qualified Northern Virginia kids going out of state or "settling" for their 2nd/3rd/4th choice mainly or partially because they were rejected or waitlisted at their top Virginia choices (anecdotal evidence, but still...).

Do people still think Virginia parents are lucky to have such good options? I think some OOS kids at UVA/VT engineering should feel lucky instead.

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Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

That is for graduate schools. Not undergraduate.

I don't think JMU has any graduate degree programs in chemistry. It would never appear on the list you cited. A school can be very good at undergraduate chemistry (e.g. Swarthmore) and it would never appear on the list you cited. However, their undergraduate program could be better than the undergraduate programs of many on the graduate list.

A better indicator of undergrad quality could be the numbers/% of students who go on to a chemistry PhD.
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs#chemistry

Top 4 by # = Berkeley, UNC, UCSD, UC Davis
Top 4 adjusted for college size = Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, Grinnell

FWIW Swarthmore is #16 in the "adjusted" list

VT is #29 in total, UVA is #42, UMD is #47, JMU doesn't make the list.

You are shortchanging JMU. Here is a current list of undergraduate institutions of PhD recipients. For Chemistry, JMU is ahead of UVA and #7 in the Southeast, ahead of schools like Georgia Tech and the University of Georgia.

https://www.highereddatastories.com/2023/10/undergraduate-institutions-of-doctoral.html

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Anonymous wrote:Where's the big state flagship in California that most kids can get into? Or Florida, NC, Texas, Georgia, Maryland, etc.?

This.

Cousins in California could not get accepted into any UC campus despite having SATs 1550 or higher, excellent grades, hard courses in HS, and from a highly rated / challenging HS (Gunn in PA).

Who is getting in if not a kid like this? Or are there just too many kids like this?

Aren’t the UC schools test blind? So the 1550 would be irrelevant.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where's the big state flagship in California that most kids can get into? Or Florida, NC, Texas, Georgia, Maryland, etc.?

This.

Cousins in California could not get accepted into any UC campus despite having SATs 1550 or higher, excellent grades, hard courses in HS, and from a highly rated / challenging HS (Gunn in PA).

Who is getting in if not a kid like this? Or are there just too many kids like this?

When all-in easily floats up over $150,000, and realistically is closer to $175K! for a public and in-state degree (and that's IF your kid can do that engineering in four years) -- it'll really make you question what's going on.

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Anonymous wrote:Where's the big state flagship in California that most kids can get into? Or Florida, NC, Texas, Georgia, Maryland, etc.?

This.

Cousins in California could not get accepted into any UC campus despite having SATs 1550 or higher, excellent grades, hard courses in HS, and from a highly rated / challenging HS (Gunn in PA).

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Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

That is for graduate schools. Not undergraduate.

I don't think JMU has any graduate degree programs in chemistry. It would never appear on the list you cited. A school can be very good at undergraduate chemistry (e.g. Swarthmore) and it would never appear on the list you cited. However, their undergraduate program could be better than the undergraduate programs of many on the graduate list.

A better indicator of undergrad quality could be the numbers/% of students who go on to a chemistry PhD.
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs#chemistry

Top 4 by # = Berkeley, UNC, UCSD, UC Davis
Top 4 adjusted for college size = Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, Grinnell

FWIW Swarthmore is #16 in the "adjusted" list

VT is #29 in total, UVA is #42, UMD is #47, JMU doesn't make the list.

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Anonymous wrote:What's the difference between being a commuter at UMD vs. a commuter at Mason for most students? Not sure what OP is complaining about.

Really? No difference?

Anonymous wrote:What's the difference between being a commuter at UMD vs. a commuter at Mason for most students? Not sure what OP is complaining about.

Anonymous wrote:Where's the big state flagship in California that most kids can get into? Or Florida, NC, Texas, Georgia, Maryland, etc.?

Anonymous wrote:I wish VA had a big state U that was more accessible for kids that aren’t at the tippy top, UVA and VT are not easy admits to say the least. And not all kids are into the smaller schools or want to stay locally for GMU. I also wish VA schools took less OOS kids.

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Anonymous wrote:Maryland parents often complain about the lack of instate public options other than UMCP.

Guess what, Virginia is not that much better in my opinion.

Yes, Virginia has UVa, W&M and VT.

But Virginia is more populous than Maryland and W&M undergraduate enrollment is tiny. In addition, more Maryland parents are willing to send their kids to private colleges like many other parents in Northern states.

VT limits the number of in-state admission to get more OOS kids. So what if your kids don’t get in UVa, VT or W&M? That’s the big issue for many parents.

JMU is considered as the next best option. And I do think it’s a fine school and its business program is a solid choice. But what if your kids want to major in engineering or hard scinece? JMU doesn’t even have a proper engineering school (college of integrated science and engineering is not a real engineering school in my opinion).

GMU offers decent engineering and CS programs but not everyone in Northern Virginia wants to go to a school in Fairfax.

Too many good and ambitious Virginia kids don’t get in UVa, W&M, and VT. I think this is why there have been increased interest in some of OOS public school (pitt, IU, UDel, UConn, Tenn, Alabama, etc. ) among Virginia parents.

GMU is ranked higher tham JMU. So weird you would think it's the next best option.

My kid visited JMU, GMU, and VT. JMU is her favorite. She loved the welcoming spirit of the place. She wants to major in a hard science (not engineering, not pre-med). Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?