Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those speculating OP could never find a partner as frugal as him, I disagree. I was super frugal back when I was single. But there's no way I could have ever met OP's standards for femininity. None of the frugal women I know are feminine, and none of the feminine ones I know are frugal.

Note to OP: feminine women are more likely to want to be SAHMs, expect their husbands to cover major expenses such as housing, want to spend more money on jewelry/clothing/makeup/housing/home decor/personal grooming/etc. OP should adjust his expectations accordingly.

This. I was frugal when I was single and also now that I am married. Would not meet exacting standards for "hotness" because that costs a lot of money in just clothes and upkeep.

OP, you have a choice: high standards for what you consider feminity (costing you $$$ once you get married) or a frugal woman whose goal is to also save money. The two are not compatible.

The OP just said he dated a feminine woman who was frugal. But keep on preaching this drivel.

Women saying you need money to look good and feminine are either lying, nor feminine and lie to themselves, or lazy. I lived on a frigate budget of $30k I’m a major city when I was in school. I didn’t have a money for super fancy things or designer brands, but I had a good skincare regimen, worked out and ate healthy, and dressed nicely. You have no idea how taking good care of your skin, working out and eating healthy, and dressing nicely will make you look good and look feminine. My husband and I have a high HHI but I still never buy a bunch of designer clothes, handbags, or jewelry. Many traditional women are Christians and they don’t wear a ton of makeup or jewelry and still look feminine. I never had issues attracting men in my frugal days. Many women in low income areas still manage look feminine and attractive. Stop with the nonsense that you need a ton of money in order to take care of yourself or look feminine.

I grew up around traditional Christian women who know how to stretch a dollar and prioritize femininity and looking pretty and staying fit. They would all, absolutely and without exception, expect their boyfriend/fiance to pay for every date and would not offer to pay (one thing OP says bothered him about his ex). They would also expect to stay home and if their DH made $400k/year and bragged about having $2M put away, would expect a "showplace" home - and I don't just mean the purchase price, although that too (another thing OP says bothers him about his ex). They would spend a huge amount on decorating and making sure each kid has a themed bedroom and being in the right kind of car for their social circle (the particular make/model varies by region, but none are Hyundais). They might not all want a big rock, but a very good chunk of them do. The thing that's strange about OP's complaints is that the only thing that's objectively objectionable and that actually makes her look materialistic happened before he proposed, and didn't throw him off. Wanting to invest more in a house is not materialistic, especially since they're in their 30s and talking about kids right away. Wanting to stay home and raise kids is not materialistic. Disagreeing about a housing budget before you've even started looking is par for the course and usually gets sorted out by seeing what's on the market.

This board jumped to "OP's ex is a terrible materialistic whore" but actually she seems to be exactly what he was asking her to be. Pretty, great in bed, traditional gender roles, wanted to marry him and stay home to raise his kids. Until he realized that it wasn't just "I'll be fine with a SAHM in the vague future" and it was on the verge really happening. He'd actually have to spend the money he says he's been saving for just this purpose, pretty soon. And the idea of doing that freaked him out so much, he asked for premarital counseling and then the ring back in what, a 6 hour interval?

+1 to all of this. This is a great post.

This post isn't all that good. Way too many generalizations about 'traditional Christian women' that is based on poster's limited interaction which such women. I don't sense OP was asking her to be anything just herself. Don't all men want "pretty"-- whatever they interpret that to be, and great sex is a given. Financially they weren't compatible and that's a huge issue that shouldn't be dismissed. Do I think both OP and his ex-fiancee were trying to check a box in getting married, absolutely. They both were. Their peer group is in that phase and yes, the fiancee is operating under a much tighter time frame for having kids without using fertility treatments if that is what she truly wants. Do I think her wanting a big house is materialistic, not necessarily, but she didn't seem to have a realistic plan on how to afford it. Let me dump it on my all partner and eat up his savings, while I maintain mine is selfish. Now I know some of you think, oh but he had the means, not really. His salary alone won't cover a 2 million to 2.5 house without eating up his premarital savings and is a 7 bedroom house truly a necessity when you only plan on having 2 kids who aren't even born yet? Oh but the housing market in Arlington, Falls Church is going to be a "great investment"--nothing is a sure thing anymore and with rising inflation, hmmm, me thinks him going over his budget is a terrible idea. Fiancee agreed to counseling and then flaked. Oh but she is a pretty feminine girl and OP has to be aware that these type of girls are going to more expensive. I won't even touch that one with a 10 foot pole. And despite what DCUM women want to portend, everyone has to live within their means and have a budget that both parties can live with.

Anonymous wrote:she sounds immature with unrealistic expectations more than anything else. but you really dont need and shouldnt want (nor likely cannot afford) a 5-6 bedroom first home in this area. it sounds like she wants you to take care of her? is that what you are looking for? couples therapy to work on communication might be one option? how is the wedding planning going?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those speculating OP could never find a partner as frugal as him, I disagree. I was super frugal back when I was single. But there's no way I could have ever met OP's standards for femininity. None of the frugal women I know are feminine, and none of the feminine ones I know are frugal.

Note to OP: feminine women are more likely to want to be SAHMs, expect their husbands to cover major expenses such as housing, want to spend more money on jewelry/clothing/makeup/housing/home decor/personal grooming/etc. OP should adjust his expectations accordingly.

This. I was frugal when I was single and also now that I am married. Would not meet exacting standards for "hotness" because that costs a lot of money in just clothes and upkeep.

OP, you have a choice: high standards for what you consider feminity (costing you $$$ once you get married) or a frugal woman whose goal is to also save money. The two are not compatible.

The OP just said he dated a feminine woman who was frugal. But keep on preaching this drivel.

Women saying you need money to look good and feminine are either lying, nor feminine and lie to themselves, or lazy. I lived on a frigate budget of $30k I’m a major city when I was in school. I didn’t have a money for super fancy things or designer brands, but I had a good skincare regimen, worked out and ate healthy, and dressed nicely. You have no idea how taking good care of your skin, working out and eating healthy, and dressing nicely will make you look good and look feminine. My husband and I have a high HHI but I still never buy a bunch of designer clothes, handbags, or jewelry. Many traditional women are Christians and they don’t wear a ton of makeup or jewelry and still look feminine. I never had issues attracting men in my frugal days. Many women in low income areas still manage look feminine and attractive. Stop with the nonsense that you need a ton of money in order to take care of yourself or look feminine.

I grew up around traditional Christian women who know how to stretch a dollar and prioritize femininity and looking pretty and staying fit. They would all, absolutely and without exception, expect their boyfriend/fiance to pay for every date and would not offer to pay (one thing OP says bothered him about his ex). They would also expect to stay home and if their DH made $400k/year and bragged about having $2M put away, would expect a "showplace" home - and I don't just mean the purchase price, although that too (another thing OP says bothers him about his ex). They would spend a huge amount on decorating and making sure each kid has a themed bedroom and being in the right kind of car for their social circle (the particular make/model varies by region, but none are Hyundais). They might not all want a big rock, but a very good chunk of them do. The thing that's strange about OP's complaints is that the only thing that's objectively objectionable and that actually makes her look materialistic happened before he proposed, and didn't throw him off. Wanting to invest more in a house is not materialistic, especially since they're in their 30s and talking about kids right away. Wanting to stay home and raise kids is not materialistic. Disagreeing about a housing budget before you've even started looking is par for the course and usually gets sorted out by seeing what's on the market.

This board jumped to "OP's ex is a terrible materialistic whore" but actually she seems to be exactly what he was asking her to be. Pretty, great in bed, traditional gender roles, wanted to marry him and stay home to raise his kids. Until he realized that it wasn't just "I'll be fine with a SAHM in the vague future" and it was on the verge really happening. He'd actually have to spend the money he says he's been saving for just this purpose, pretty soon. And the idea of doing that freaked him out so much, he asked for premarital counseling and then the ring back in what, a 6 hour interval?

+1 to all of this. This is a great post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those speculating OP could never find a partner as frugal as him, I disagree. I was super frugal back when I was single. But there's no way I could have ever met OP's standards for femininity. None of the frugal women I know are feminine, and none of the feminine ones I know are frugal.

Note to OP: feminine women are more likely to want to be SAHMs, expect their husbands to cover major expenses such as housing, want to spend more money on jewelry/clothing/makeup/housing/home decor/personal grooming/etc. OP should adjust his expectations accordingly.

This. I was frugal when I was single and also now that I am married. Would not meet exacting standards for "hotness" because that costs a lot of money in just clothes and upkeep.

OP, you have a choice: high standards for what you consider feminity (costing you $$$ once you get married) or a frugal woman whose goal is to also save money. The two are not compatible.

The OP just said he dated a feminine woman who was frugal. But keep on preaching this drivel.

Women saying you need money to look good and feminine are either lying, nor feminine and lie to themselves, or lazy. I lived on a frigate budget of $30k I’m a major city when I was in school. I didn’t have a money for super fancy things or designer brands, but I had a good skincare regimen, worked out and ate healthy, and dressed nicely. You have no idea how taking good care of your skin, working out and eating healthy, and dressing nicely will make you look good and look feminine. My husband and I have a high HHI but I still never buy a bunch of designer clothes, handbags, or jewelry. Many traditional women are Christians and they don’t wear a ton of makeup or jewelry and still look feminine. I never had issues attracting men in my frugal days. Many women in low income areas still manage look feminine and attractive. Stop with the nonsense that you need a ton of money in order to take care of yourself or look feminine.

I grew up around traditional Christian women who know how to stretch a dollar and prioritize femininity and looking pretty and staying fit. They would all, absolutely and without exception, expect their boyfriend/fiance to pay for every date and would not offer to pay (one thing OP says bothered him about his ex). They would also expect to stay home and if their DH made $400k/year and bragged about having $2M put away, would expect a "showplace" home - and I don't just mean the purchase price, although that too (another thing OP says bothers him about his ex). They would spend a huge amount on decorating and making sure each kid has a themed bedroom and being in the right kind of car for their social circle (the particular make/model varies by region, but none are Hyundais). They might not all want a big rock, but a very good chunk of them do. The thing that's strange about OP's complaints is that the only thing that's objectively objectionable and that actually makes her look materialistic happened before he proposed, and didn't throw him off. Wanting to invest more in a house is not materialistic, especially since they're in their 30s and talking about kids right away. Wanting to stay home and raise kids is not materialistic. Disagreeing about a housing budget before you've even started looking is par for the course and usually gets sorted out by seeing what's on the market.

This board jumped to "OP's ex is a terrible materialistic whore" but actually she seems to be exactly what he was asking her to be. Pretty, great in bed, traditional gender roles, wanted to marry him and stay home to raise his kids. Until he realized that it wasn't just "I'll be fine with a SAHM in the vague future" and it was on the verge really happening. He'd actually have to spend the money he says he's been saving for just this purpose, pretty soon. And the idea of doing that freaked him out so much, he asked for premarital counseling and then the ring back in what, a 6 hour interval?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those speculating OP could never find a partner as frugal as him, I disagree. I was super frugal back when I was single. But there's no way I could have ever met OP's standards for femininity. None of the frugal women I know are feminine, and none of the feminine ones I know are frugal.

Note to OP: feminine women are more likely to want to be SAHMs, expect their husbands to cover major expenses such as housing, want to spend more money on jewelry/clothing/makeup/housing/home decor/personal grooming/etc. OP should adjust his expectations accordingly.

This. I was frugal when I was single and also now that I am married. Would not meet exacting standards for "hotness" because that costs a lot of money in just clothes and upkeep.

OP, you have a choice: high standards for what you consider feminity (costing you $$$ once you get married) or a frugal woman whose goal is to also save money. The two are not compatible.

The OP just said he dated a feminine woman who was frugal. But keep on preaching this drivel.

Women saying you need money to look good and feminine are either lying, nor feminine and lie to themselves, or lazy. I lived on a frigate budget of $30k I’m a major city when I was in school. I didn’t have a money for super fancy things or designer brands, but I had a good skincare regimen, worked out and ate healthy, and dressed nicely. You have no idea how taking good care of your skin, working out and eating healthy, and dressing nicely will make you look good and look feminine. My husband and I have a high HHI but I still never buy a bunch of designer clothes, handbags, or jewelry. Many traditional women are Christians and they don’t wear a ton of makeup or jewelry and still look feminine. I never had issues attracting men in my frugal days. Many women in low income areas still manage look feminine and attractive. Stop with the nonsense that you need a ton of money in order to take care of yourself or look feminine.

I grew up around traditional Christian women who know how to stretch a dollar and prioritize femininity and looking pretty and staying fit. They would all, absolutely and without exception, expect their boyfriend/fiance to pay for every date and would not offer to pay (one thing OP says bothered him about his ex). They would also expect to stay home and if their DH made $400k/year and bragged about having $2M put away, would expect a "showplace" home - and I don't just mean the purchase price, although that too (another thing OP says bothers him about his ex). They would spend a huge amount on decorating and making sure each kid has a themed bedroom and being in the right kind of car for their social circle (the particular make/model varies by region, but none are Hyundais). They might not all want a big rock, but a very good chunk of them do. The thing that's strange about OP's complaints is that the only thing that's objectively objectionable and that actually makes her look materialistic happened before he proposed, and didn't throw him off. Wanting to invest more in a house is not materialistic, especially since they're in their 30s and talking about kids right away. Wanting to stay home and raise kids is not materialistic. Disagreeing about a housing budget before you've even started looking is par for the course and usually gets sorted out by seeing what's on the market.

This board jumped to "OP's ex is a terrible materialistic whore" but actually she seems to be exactly what he was asking her to be. Pretty, great in bed, traditional gender roles, wanted to marry him and stay home to raise his kids. Until he realized that it wasn't just "I'll be fine with a SAHM in the vague future" and it was on the verge really happening. He'd actually have to spend the money he says he's been saving for just this purpose, pretty soon. And the idea of doing that freaked him out so much, he asked for premarital counseling and then the ring back in what, a 6 hour interval?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read the description of the ex I think she has Borderline Personality Disorder or is simply one of the smartest women around. Men want women to be pretty and lavish with sex, praise, and attention, and logistical life support. Most women who earn a decent living are unwilling to expend that much of their energy to construct and maintain the "femininity" that keeps husbands happy. Men stay because they don't want to lose joint resources or access to their kids. Few actually prefer equality. OP, your ex will find someone new and it won't take long because women like her are increasingly rare. She knows her value to men like you.

I don't know about the UMC white collar men you know, but the ones I know prefer driven women with thriving careers who can be their intellectual equal.

Anonymous wrote:Women saying you need money to look good and feminine are either lying, nor feminine and lie to themselves, or lazy. I lived on a frigate budget of $30k I’m a major city when I was in school. I didn’t have a money for super fancy things or designer brands, but I had a good skincare regimen, worked out and ate healthy, and dressed nicely. You have no idea how taking good care of your skin, working out and eating healthy, and dressing nicely will make you look good and look feminine. My husband and I have a high HHI but I still never buy a bunch of designer clothes, handbags, or jewelry. Many traditional women are Christians and they don’t wear a ton of makeup or jewelry and still look feminine. I never had issues attracting men in my frugal days. Many women in low income areas still manage look feminine and attractive. Stop with the nonsense that you need a ton of money in order to take care of yourself or look feminine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he found the ideal type of woman and is not currently with her. Why? OP should think about this.

My initial observation was that he seemed more compatible with the previous ex as well but OP didn't delve into too much details other than she looked amazing and was thrifty.

OP did talk about her. He said they dated for two year and he planned to marry her. She tried to make herself want kids because that’s what her family was pushing, but she decided she didn’t want to have kids. OP does want kids and things ended. He said she is married to a guy who doesn’t want kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those speculating OP could never find a partner as frugal as him, I disagree. I was super frugal back when I was single. But there's no way I could have ever met OP's standards for femininity. None of the frugal women I know are feminine, and none of the feminine ones I know are frugal.

Note to OP: feminine women are more likely to want to be SAHMs, expect their husbands to cover major expenses such as housing, want to spend more money on jewelry/clothing/makeup/housing/home decor/personal grooming/etc. OP should adjust his expectations accordingly.

OP here. I’m fine with this. I’ve dated feminine women who were frugal. You don’t need an expensive budget to take look good. I live frugal because I wanted a good future for myself and to provide a comfortable lifestyle for my future wife and kids, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to live frugal forever. We will have a budget like any family and consult each other on major purchases, but we do not have to live by a strict budget.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those speculating OP could never find a partner as frugal as him, I disagree. I was super frugal back when I was single. But there's no way I could have ever met OP's standards for femininity. None of the frugal women I know are feminine, and none of the feminine ones I know are frugal.

Note to OP: feminine women are more likely to want to be SAHMs, expect their husbands to cover major expenses such as housing, want to spend more money on jewelry/clothing/makeup/housing/home decor/personal grooming/etc. OP should adjust his expectations accordingly.

This. I was frugal when I was single and also now that I am married. Would not meet exacting standards for "hotness" because that costs a lot of money in just clothes and upkeep.

OP, you have a choice: high standards for what you consider feminity (costing you $$$ once you get married) or a frugal woman whose goal is to also save money. The two are not compatible.

The OP just said he dated a feminine woman who was frugal. But keep on preaching this drivel.

So he found the ideal type of woman and is not currently with her. Why? OP should think about this.

My initial observation was that he seemed more compatible with the previous ex as well but OP didn't delve into too much details other than she looked amazing and was thrifty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those speculating OP could never find a partner as frugal as him, I disagree. I was super frugal back when I was single. But there's no way I could have ever met OP's standards for femininity. None of the frugal women I know are feminine, and none of the feminine ones I know are frugal.

Note to OP: feminine women are more likely to want to be SAHMs, expect their husbands to cover major expenses such as housing, want to spend more money on jewelry/clothing/makeup/housing/home decor/personal grooming/etc. OP should adjust his expectations accordingly.

This. I was frugal when I was single and also now that I am married. Would not meet exacting standards for "hotness" because that costs a lot of money in just clothes and upkeep.

OP, you have a choice: high standards for what you consider feminity (costing you $$$ once you get married) or a frugal woman whose goal is to also save money. The two are not compatible.

The OP just said he dated a feminine woman who was frugal. But keep on preaching this drivel.

Women saying you need money to look good and feminine are either lying, nor feminine and lie to themselves, or lazy. I lived on a frigate budget of $30k I’m a major city when I was in school. I didn’t have a money for super fancy things or designer brands, but I had a good skincare regimen, worked out and ate healthy, and dressed nicely. You have no idea how taking good care of your skin, working out and eating healthy, and dressing nicely will make you look good and look feminine. My husband and I have a high HHI but I still never buy a bunch of designer clothes, handbags, or jewelry. Many traditional women are Christians and they don’t wear a ton of makeup or jewelry and still look feminine. I never had issues attracting men in my frugal days. Many women in low income areas still manage look feminine and attractive. Stop with the nonsense that you need a ton of money in order to take care of yourself or look feminine.