Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In case you are one of those who are morally confused:

Good guy: Daniel Penny
Bad Guy: Luigi Mangione

+1

There are lots of seriously twisted and perverted people out there. So much justification over an assassination. There are people comparing this to what the founding fathers did for political change and text pretzel logic to reach those conclusions.

I think there's a LOT of righteous anger in this country towards the insurance industry. Righteous.

Sure, some people try to game the system. Those individuals pale in comparison to how the insurance industry is gaming the system.

If you can't understand these simple facts, neither I nor anyone else can help you.

So far as the vast majority of people are concerned, the murder of a corrupt, crooked member of this perverted insurance scam industry was a *shrug* event.

You must work in the insurance industry if you can't appreciate the frustration and anger the average America feels.

I don’t work for the insurance industry and I have had claims denied by insurance companies. I understand there is a lot of frustration, but frustration does not make murder acceptable. I bet you yourself feel frustration about many things. I bet you feel frustrations over things like politics, but you’re not going to go out and assassinate a politician, a president or a CEO. Just because you’re frustrated does not mean murder is acceptable.

If you’re advocating for people assassinating people they’re frustrated with well then I can’t help you understand how wrong it is.

What Luigi did wasn’t heroic. In fact, he was a coward. He shot the man in the back. He didn’t even have the righteous indignation or guts to say something to his face.

I am telling you that people are frustrated and angry. Where did I state I am advocating for murder?

Please read what I stated again.

The industry needs to get overhauled with closer regulation. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover weight loss medication for cosmetic reasons. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover every politicized and popular medical procedure that is not medically necessary. But denying and delaying medically critical covered procedures is immoral, unethical, and inexcusable. BC/BS trying to limit anesthesia in the middle of a complicated surgery is BEYOND reasonable denial. They were going for it. BC/BS was really going for it.

Discussions of the proposed BCBS policy have been insane. Anesthesiologists' lobbying firm deserves a huge bonus.

Obviously they weren't going to wake people up in the middle of the surgery. The idea was clearly to limit billing and reimbursement based on how long the procedure should have taken. Kind of like a mechanic billing you for labor hours based on the book times. If they opened you up and found another problem, then that could and would be added to the claim.

Yes, sometimes one case will take a little bit longer than another case, and you'll get paid the same for both, but that's pretty normal. This is basically how it works for other doctors.

This is a weird thing to complain about when people generally want to know how much a procedure will cost before going in.

+1

A big insurer backed off its plan to pay less for anesthesia. That’s bad.
https://www.vox.com/policy/390031/anthem-blue-cross-blue-shield-anesthesia-limits-insurance

Many pages ago, a poster asked why health care costs are so much higher than other countries. Anesthesiologists are just one of many reasons, but it's a big one. As an example, the most expensive part of a colonoscopy is the anesthesia, not the gastroenterologist. And that's for a procedure where the gastroenterologist themselves could administer and monitor the anesthesia, but they don't want to piss off the anesthesiologists that they need for the more complicated cases. So the anesthesiologists typically come in for every case, resulting in much higher costs. Colonoscopies are great deals for anesthesiologists.

I just had a colonoscopy. I had a nurse anesthetist administer the anesthesia. She was overseen by the gastroenterologist. No anesthesiologist was present.

Same

Anonymous wrote:So lots of people in Baltimore, including his family must have recognized his photo from the news, but nobody turned him in?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In case you are one of those who are morally confused:

Good guy: Daniel Penny
Bad Guy: Luigi Mangione

+1

There are lots of seriously twisted and perverted people out there. So much justification over an assassination. There are people comparing this to what the founding fathers did for political change and text pretzel logic to reach those conclusions.

I think there's a LOT of righteous anger in this country towards the insurance industry. Righteous.

Sure, some people try to game the system. Those individuals pale in comparison to how the insurance industry is gaming the system.

If you can't understand these simple facts, neither I nor anyone else can help you.

So far as the vast majority of people are concerned, the murder of a corrupt, crooked member of this perverted insurance scam industry was a *shrug* event.

You must work in the insurance industry if you can't appreciate the frustration and anger the average America feels.

I don’t work for the insurance industry and I have had claims denied by insurance companies. I understand there is a lot of frustration, but frustration does not make murder acceptable. I bet you yourself feel frustration about many things. I bet you feel frustrations over things like politics, but you’re not going to go out and assassinate a politician, a president or a CEO. Just because you’re frustrated does not mean murder is acceptable.

If you’re advocating for people assassinating people they’re frustrated with well then I can’t help you understand how wrong it is.

What Luigi did wasn’t heroic. In fact, he was a coward. He shot the man in the back. He didn’t even have the righteous indignation or guts to say something to his face.

I am telling you that people are frustrated and angry. Where did I state I am advocating for murder?

Please read what I stated again.

The industry needs to get overhauled with closer regulation. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover weight loss medication for cosmetic reasons. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover every politicized and popular medical procedure that is not medically necessary. But denying and delaying medically critical covered procedures is immoral, unethical, and inexcusable. BC/BS trying to limit anesthesia in the middle of a complicated surgery is BEYOND reasonable denial. They were going for it. BC/BS was really going for it.

Discussions of the proposed BCBS policy have been insane. Anesthesiologists' lobbying firm deserves a huge bonus.

Obviously they weren't going to wake people up in the middle of the surgery. The idea was clearly to limit billing and reimbursement based on how long the procedure should have taken. Kind of like a mechanic billing you for labor hours based on the book times. If they opened you up and found another problem, then that could and would be added to the claim.

Yes, sometimes one case will take a little bit longer than another case, and you'll get paid the same for both, but that's pretty normal. This is basically how it works for other doctors.

This is a weird thing to complain about when people generally want to know how much a procedure will cost before going in.

+1

A big insurer backed off its plan to pay less for anesthesia. That’s bad.
https://www.vox.com/policy/390031/anthem-blue-cross-blue-shield-anesthesia-limits-insurance

Many pages ago, a poster asked why health care costs are so much higher than other countries. Anesthesiologists are just one of many reasons, but it's a big one. As an example, the most expensive part of a colonoscopy is the anesthesia, not the gastroenterologist. And that's for a procedure where the gastroenterologist themselves could administer and monitor the anesthesia, but they don't want to piss off the anesthesiologists that they need for the more complicated cases. So the anesthesiologists typically come in for every case, resulting in much higher costs. Colonoscopies are great deals for anesthesiologists.

What gastroenterologist wants to monitor anesthesia? There is a reason why becoming an anesthesiologist and a gastroenterologist is a separate pathway.

One that cares about cost. It's common in other countries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they said he ran across Central Park I thought that made such good sense—that he had stashed a bag with change of shirt and jacket and new fake ID, and would easily be able to ditch the gun in the park and make it really hard to find. But it seems like he did none of that. If he had fresh clothes and new bag and ID, he could have stayed on that bus until Oregon and disappeared forever.

He should have used his rich pretty privilege to his advantage and threw on a Penn sweatshirt and nobody would have batted an eye at him. He probably look insane in that McDonalds

He really could have disappeared forever. He was sloppy. WHY? He should have ditched the gun ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they said he ran across Central Park I thought that made such good sense—that he had stashed a bag with change of shirt and jacket and new fake ID, and would easily be able to ditch the gun in the park and make it really hard to find. But it seems like he did none of that. If he had fresh clothes and new bag and ID, he could have stayed on that bus until Oregon and disappeared forever.

He should have used his rich pretty privilege to his advantage and threw on a Penn sweatshirt and nobody would have batted an eye at him. He probably look insane in that McDonalds

He really could have disappeared forever. He was sloppy. WHY? He should have ditched the gun ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people realize how many innocent people are killed by way of limiting access to affordable healthcare in this country by none other than Brian Thompson and those like him leading private health insurance companies.

This kid murdered Thompson in cold blood publicly and got caught.

That's the difference. If you saw even one insurance case of a family at their wits end trying to get a claim approved to help their loved one, I'm not sure how you would not feel that it's a kind of murder or your torture. Because these things are not put forth on a public forum enacted as a play for all to see, it's considered acceptable.

It's very much cold blooded murder however. Ask anyone who has worked a length of time in the healthcare industries.

Why are you blaming the insurer and not the hospitals and doctors for their outrageous charges? The insurance industry evolved because hospitals and doctors were just charging whatever they wanted and ordering procedures for anything and everything until just paying claims became unsustainable.

DP. I find this such a bad faith argument. Can we walk and chew gum at the same time? I think so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In case you are one of those who are morally confused:

Good guy: Daniel Penny
Bad Guy: Luigi Mangione

+1

There are lots of seriously twisted and perverted people out there. So much justification over an assassination. There are people comparing this to what the founding fathers did for political change and text pretzel logic to reach those conclusions.

The fact that the killing of an insurance CEO can be characterized as an assassination is an indictment of our failing society. You can agree with people who don’t find the killing problematic, or vehemently disagree and make a case that violence is never the answer, no matter the acts of the victim.

There just isn’t a good faith argument that profiteering on health, illegally denying care, and business people deciding the fate of others’ lives is a good system. That’s the pretzel I see. I can appreciate points on either side of the “this was terrible” and “this was understandable and inevitable” arguments, but not anything supportive of UHC, the industry, or Thompson personally.

all of this is currently legal in our country. our government has failed us by not providing a single-payor system.

And most Americans just voted for Trump who will not only not create single payer but continue to enrich those at the top. They have no one to blame but themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In case you are one of those who are morally confused:

Good guy: Daniel Penny
Bad Guy: Luigi Mangione

+1

There are lots of seriously twisted and perverted people out there. So much justification over an assassination. There are people comparing this to what the founding fathers did for political change and text pretzel logic to reach those conclusions.

I think there's a LOT of righteous anger in this country towards the insurance industry. Righteous.

Sure, some people try to game the system. Those individuals pale in comparison to how the insurance industry is gaming the system.

If you can't understand these simple facts, neither I nor anyone else can help you.

So far as the vast majority of people are concerned, the murder of a corrupt, crooked member of this perverted insurance scam industry was a *shrug* event.

You must work in the insurance industry if you can't appreciate the frustration and anger the average America feels.

I don’t work for the insurance industry and I have had claims denied by insurance companies. I understand there is a lot of frustration, but frustration does not make murder acceptable. I bet you yourself feel frustration about many things. I bet you feel frustrations over things like politics, but you’re not going to go out and assassinate a politician, a president or a CEO. Just because you’re frustrated does not mean murder is acceptable.

If you’re advocating for people assassinating people they’re frustrated with well then I can’t help you understand how wrong it is.

What Luigi did wasn’t heroic. In fact, he was a coward. He shot the man in the back. He didn’t even have the righteous indignation or guts to say something to his face.

I am telling you that people are frustrated and angry. Where did I state I am advocating for murder?

Please read what I stated again.

The industry needs to get overhauled with closer regulation. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover weight loss medication for cosmetic reasons. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover every politicized and popular medical procedure that is not medically necessary. But denying and delaying medically critical covered procedures is immoral, unethical, and inexcusable. BC/BS trying to limit anesthesia in the middle of a complicated surgery is BEYOND reasonable denial. They were going for it. BC/BS was really going for it.

Discussions of the proposed BCBS policy have been insane. Anesthesiologists' lobbying firm deserves a huge bonus.

Obviously they weren't going to wake people up in the middle of the surgery. The idea was clearly to limit billing and reimbursement based on how long the procedure should have taken. Kind of like a mechanic billing you for labor hours based on the book times. If they opened you up and found another problem, then that could and would be added to the claim.

Yes, sometimes one case will take a little bit longer than another case, and you'll get paid the same for both, but that's pretty normal. This is basically how it works for other doctors.

This is a weird thing to complain about when people generally want to know how much a procedure will cost before going in.

+1

A big insurer backed off its plan to pay less for anesthesia. That’s bad.
https://www.vox.com/policy/390031/anthem-blue-cross-blue-shield-anesthesia-limits-insurance

Many pages ago, a poster asked why health care costs are so much higher than other countries. Anesthesiologists are just one of many reasons, but it's a big one. As an example, the most expensive part of a colonoscopy is the anesthesia, not the gastroenterologist. And that's for a procedure where the gastroenterologist themselves could administer and monitor the anesthesia, but they don't want to piss off the anesthesiologists that they need for the more complicated cases. So the anesthesiologists typically come in for every case, resulting in much higher costs. Colonoscopies are great deals for anesthesiologists.

What gastroenterologist wants to monitor anesthesia? There is a reason why becoming an anesthesiologist and a gastroenterologist is a separate pathway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people realize how many innocent people are killed by way of limiting access to affordable healthcare in this country by none other than Brian Thompson and those like him leading private health insurance companies.

This kid murdered Thompson in cold blood publicly and got caught.

That's the difference. If you saw even one insurance case of a family at their wits end trying to get a claim approved to help their loved one, I'm not sure how you would not feel that it's a kind of murder or your torture. Because these things are not put forth on a public forum enacted as a play for all to see, it's considered acceptable.

It's very much cold blooded murder however. Ask anyone who has worked a length of time in the healthcare industries.

Why are you blaming the insurer and not the hospitals and doctors for their outrageous charges? The insurance industry evolved because hospitals and doctors were just charging whatever they wanted and ordering procedures for anything and everything until just paying claims became unsustainable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In case you are one of those who are morally confused:

Good guy: Daniel Penny
Bad Guy: Luigi Mangione

+1

There are lots of seriously twisted and perverted people out there. So much justification over an assassination. There are people comparing this to what the founding fathers did for political change and text pretzel logic to reach those conclusions.

I think there's a LOT of righteous anger in this country towards the insurance industry. Righteous.

Sure, some people try to game the system. Those individuals pale in comparison to how the insurance industry is gaming the system.

If you can't understand these simple facts, neither I nor anyone else can help you.

So far as the vast majority of people are concerned, the murder of a corrupt, crooked member of this perverted insurance scam industry was a *shrug* event.

You must work in the insurance industry if you can't appreciate the frustration and anger the average America feels.

I don’t work for the insurance industry and I have had claims denied by insurance companies. I understand there is a lot of frustration, but frustration does not make murder acceptable. I bet you yourself feel frustration about many things. I bet you feel frustrations over things like politics, but you’re not going to go out and assassinate a politician, a president or a CEO. Just because you’re frustrated does not mean murder is acceptable.

If you’re advocating for people assassinating people they’re frustrated with well then I can’t help you understand how wrong it is.

What Luigi did wasn’t heroic. In fact, he was a coward. He shot the man in the back. He didn’t even have the righteous indignation or guts to say something to his face.

I am telling you that people are frustrated and angry. Where did I state I am advocating for murder?

Please read what I stated again.

The industry needs to get overhauled with closer regulation. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover weight loss medication for cosmetic reasons. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover every politicized and popular medical procedure that is not medically necessary. But denying and delaying medically critical covered procedures is immoral, unethical, and inexcusable. BC/BS trying to limit anesthesia in the middle of a complicated surgery is BEYOND reasonable denial. They were going for it. BC/BS was really going for it.

Discussions of the proposed BCBS policy have been insane. Anesthesiologists' lobbying firm deserves a huge bonus.

Obviously they weren't going to wake people up in the middle of the surgery. The idea was clearly to limit billing and reimbursement based on how long the procedure should have taken. Kind of like a mechanic billing you for labor hours based on the book times. If they opened you up and found another problem, then that could and would be added to the claim.

Yes, sometimes one case will take a little bit longer than another case, and you'll get paid the same for both, but that's pretty normal. This is basically how it works for other doctors.

This is a weird thing to complain about when people generally want to know how much a procedure will cost before going in.

+1

A big insurer backed off its plan to pay less for anesthesia. That’s bad.
https://www.vox.com/policy/390031/anthem-blue-cross-blue-shield-anesthesia-limits-insurance

Many pages ago, a poster asked why health care costs are so much higher than other countries. Anesthesiologists are just one of many reasons, but it's a big one. As an example, the most expensive part of a colonoscopy is the anesthesia, not the gastroenterologist. And that's for a procedure where the gastroenterologist themselves could administer and monitor the anesthesia, but they don't want to piss off the anesthesiologists that they need for the more complicated cases. So the anesthesiologists typically come in for every case, resulting in much higher costs. Colonoscopies are great deals for anesthesiologists.

I just had a colonoscopy. I had a nurse anesthetist administer the anesthesia. She was overseen by the gastroenterologist. No anesthesiologist was present.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the two big contributors here are going to turn out to be weed (I bet he already used a lot in his frat in college, then it got worse with the back pain, and I’m sure there was free flowing weed in his commune in Hawaii) and playing first person shooter games. Weed absolutely precipitates psychotic illness in kids this age (see here for example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33617756/). And growing up playing a lot of shooter games (it said several places that he was into them and at one point his goal was to develop his own) inured him to real life repercussions of shooting someone.

Completely agree. Drugs and first person shooter games. Once he had surfing accident and subsequent brain damage, it made this 10x worse. And he tried other illicit drugs for chronic pain.

Give me a freakin break.

I guess you are not familiar with the s antic literature in that topic

There is a reason that our children have to grow up carrying out active shooter drills, and we did not.

Rewarding children (with points/prizes/levels) for killing people in realistic scenarios , is not good for their development. Duh.

And there is not one hour in prime time that does not feature a show about murder. That is how we choose to spend our free time.

This isn’t new. Take out a free trial on newspapers.com and spend some time browsing. The public has avidly followed crime (and the reporting in the past was often much more graphic than what you see today) since the press was a thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In case you are one of those who are morally confused:

Good guy: Daniel Penny
Bad Guy: Luigi Mangione

+1

There are lots of seriously twisted and perverted people out there. So much justification over an assassination. There are people comparing this to what the founding fathers did for political change and text pretzel logic to reach those conclusions.

I think there's a LOT of righteous anger in this country towards the insurance industry. Righteous.

Sure, some people try to game the system. Those individuals pale in comparison to how the insurance industry is gaming the system.

If you can't understand these simple facts, neither I nor anyone else can help you.

So far as the vast majority of people are concerned, the murder of a corrupt, crooked member of this perverted insurance scam industry was a *shrug* event.

You must work in the insurance industry if you can't appreciate the frustration and anger the average America feels.

I don’t work for the insurance industry and I have had claims denied by insurance companies. I understand there is a lot of frustration, but frustration does not make murder acceptable. I bet you yourself feel frustration about many things. I bet you feel frustrations over things like politics, but you’re not going to go out and assassinate a politician, a president or a CEO. Just because you’re frustrated does not mean murder is acceptable.

If you’re advocating for people assassinating people they’re frustrated with well then I can’t help you understand how wrong it is.

What Luigi did wasn’t heroic. In fact, he was a coward. He shot the man in the back. He didn’t even have the righteous indignation or guts to say something to his face.

I am telling you that people are frustrated and angry. Where did I state I am advocating for murder?

Please read what I stated again.

The industry needs to get overhauled with closer regulation. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover weight loss medication for cosmetic reasons. Sure, they shouldn't be required to cover every politicized and popular medical procedure that is not medically necessary. But denying and delaying medically critical covered procedures is immoral, unethical, and inexcusable. BC/BS trying to limit anesthesia in the middle of a complicated surgery is BEYOND reasonable denial. They were going for it. BC/BS was really going for it.

Discussions of the proposed BCBS policy have been insane. Anesthesiologists' lobbying firm deserves a huge bonus.

Obviously they weren't going to wake people up in the middle of the surgery. The idea was clearly to limit billing and reimbursement based on how long the procedure should have taken. Kind of like a mechanic billing you for labor hours based on the book times. If they opened you up and found another problem, then that could and would be added to the claim.

Yes, sometimes one case will take a little bit longer than another case, and you'll get paid the same for both, but that's pretty normal. This is basically how it works for other doctors.

This is a weird thing to complain about when people generally want to know how much a procedure will cost before going in.

+1

A big insurer backed off its plan to pay less for anesthesia. That’s bad.
https://www.vox.com/policy/390031/anthem-blue-cross-blue-shield-anesthesia-limits-insurance

Many pages ago, a poster asked why health care costs are so much higher than other countries. Anesthesiologists are just one of many reasons, but it's a big one. As an example, the most expensive part of a colonoscopy is the anesthesia, not the gastroenterologist. And that's for a procedure where the gastroenterologist themselves could administer and monitor the anesthesia, but they don't want to piss off the anesthesiologists that they need for the more complicated cases. So the anesthesiologists typically come in for every case, resulting in much higher costs. Colonoscopies are great deals for anesthesiologists.

They are also huge money makers for gastroenterologists. But I don’t want a non-expert dabbling in anesthesia to save $. That is what killed Michael Jackson.