Anonymous
11/08/2023 09:04
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think Republicans keep losing on this issue because they are sending mixed messages. For instance, they argue that all abortion is murder and that life begins at the instant of conception, but are okay with abortion bans that start at 15 weeks. (If life begins at conception, then abortion is just as wrong at 13 weeks as it is at 16 weeks.) Or that only abortion doctors, and not women who receive abortions, should be punished for having an abortion. (If a husband hires a hit man to murder his wife, do we say that only the hit man should be arrested and charged with a crime?) Or that abortion is okay in cases of rape and incest. (Why should method of conception matter if the baby is innocent?) Republicans are failing miserably on the messaging because people can clearly recognize that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.
So you think a 100% abortion ban would be more palatable?
It would be morally coherent at least. If Republicans are comfortable saying, out of political expedience, that abortion is okay at 13 weeks, or in cases of rape/incest, and that women shouldn’t be punished for having an abortion, then it’s clear that they don’t *really* believe that life begins at conception or that abortion is murder. And if even Republicans don’t believe it, then why should the rest of us?
Anonymous
11/08/2023 09:03
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
There is absolutely no evidence that fetuses feel pain at 16 weeks. The brain structure just isn’t there.
And stop being an idiot. Seriously if you’re bumbling around in here and trying to act new about abortion, having ignored all the hundreds of articles about why women have had to get later abortions (and how your hateful forced birth politics force abortions from first trimester to second), you’re not a serious person.
DP I support abortion rights but disagree. I have some medical background and there definitely is evidence that fetuses fee pain after their organs are mostly formed by early second trimester.
The problem is that generally women wanting abortions after 16 weeks are doing so because either the life of the fetus is not viable outside the womb or their own lives are at risk and they have other loved ones to consider.
Happily the vast majority of abortions are in the first trimester.
Also abortion bans after six weeks cause many medical facilities to flee because they cannot make what should be private and medical decisions without extreme political interference. It ends up hurting all women even those who wish to carry babies to full term. Many ob-gyn facilities closed in anti abortion law states after Dobbs.
No, you are factually incorrect. https://www.acog.org/advocacy/facts-are-important/gestational-development-capacity-for-pain
“Rigorous scientific studies have found that the connections necessary to transmit signals from peripheral sensory nerves to the brain, as well as the brain structures necessary to process those signals, until at or after 24 weeks gestation. Because it lacks these connections or structures, a fetus or embryo does not have the physiological capacity to perceive pain until at least this gestational age.”
But yes, when it comes to abortion, most women who are pregnant and want to be not pregnant do so as fast as humanly possible.
Anonymous
11/08/2023 08:20
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
There is absolutely no evidence that fetuses feel pain at 16 weeks. The brain structure just isn’t there.
And stop being an idiot. Seriously if you’re bumbling around in here and trying to act new about abortion, having ignored all the hundreds of articles about why women have had to get later abortions (and how your hateful forced birth politics force abortions from first trimester to second), you’re not a serious person.
DP I support abortion rights but disagree. I have some medical background and there definitely is evidence that fetuses fee pain after their organs are mostly formed by early second trimester.
The problem is that generally women wanting abortions after 16 weeks are doing so because either the life of the fetus is not viable outside the womb or their own lives are at risk and they have other loved ones to consider.
Happily the vast majority of abortions are in the first trimester.
Also abortion bans after six weeks cause many medical facilities to flee because they cannot make what should be private and medical decisions without extreme political interference. It ends up hurting all women even those who wish to carry babies to full term. Many ob-gyn facilities closed in anti abortion law states after Dobbs.
Anonymous
11/08/2023 08:20
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
My friend has an abortion at 24 weeks. It was late because they went to doctor after doctor hoping someone could tell them their baby was OK. Instead the fetus was so deformed, missing major organs, they told them the baby would only live a few hours in terrible pain.
That is why!!!!!
And the vast, overwhelming majority of abortions 2nd trimester on are situations like this. It isn't just a woman up and deciding that she doesn't want to be pregnant anymore. I've had 3 friends who have had to make that decision after 20 weeks, and it was absolutely devastating and gut-wrenching for the families.
Like him or not, Pete Buttigieg provided an excellent response to Chris Wallace's questioning about support for abortion after 20 weeks:
"So, let's put ourselves in the shoes of a woman in that situation. If it's that late in your pregnancy, that means almost by definition you've been expecting to carry it to term. We're talking about women who have perhaps chosen the name, women who have purchased the crib, families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime, something about the health or the life of the mother that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice. That decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made."
Man. Why does it take a gay guy to articulate this obvious thing so clearly?
Anonymous
11/08/2023 08:19
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:I think Republicans keep losing on this issue because they are sending mixed messages. For instance, they argue that all abortion is murder and that life begins at the instant of conception, but are okay with abortion bans that start at 15 weeks. (If life begins at conception, then abortion is just as wrong at 13 weeks as it is at 16 weeks.) Or that only abortion doctors, and not women who receive abortions, should be punished for having an abortion. (If a husband hires a hit man to murder his wife, do we say that only the hit man should be arrested and charged with a crime?) Or that abortion is okay in cases of rape and incest. (Why should method of conception matter if the baby is innocent?) Republicans are failing miserably on the messaging because people can clearly recognize that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.
So you think a 100% abortion ban would be more palatable?
Anonymous
11/08/2023 08:14
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
Because women are not livestock. You should not be able to force a human being to remain pregnant if they don't want to be. Our patriarchal society where such a large percentage of our government are male should not be making laws about women and pregnancy. Vaginal wanding anyone?
All other considerations are secondary to that, IMHO.
Anonymous
11/08/2023 08:12
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:I think Republicans keep losing on this issue because they are sending mixed messages. For instance, they argue that all abortion is murder and that life begins at the instant of conception, but are okay with abortion bans that start at 15 weeks. (If life begins at conception, then abortion is just as wrong at 13 weeks as it is at 16 weeks.) Or that only abortion doctors, and not women who receive abortions, should be punished for having an abortion. (If a husband hires a hit man to murder his wife, do we say that only the hit man should be arrested and charged with a crime?) Or that abortion is okay in cases of rape and incest. (Why should method of conception matter if the baby is innocent?) Republicans are failing miserably on the messaging because people can clearly recognize that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.
Wtf, no, Republicans are failing miserably because women are people and deserve bodily autonomy.
Anonymous
11/08/2023 08:11
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
There is absolutely no evidence that fetuses feel pain at 16 weeks. The brain structure just isn’t there.
And stop being an idiot. Seriously if you’re bumbling around in here and trying to act new about abortion, having ignored all the hundreds of articles about why women have had to get later abortions (and how your hateful forced birth politics force abortions from first trimester to second), you’re not a serious person.
Anonymous
11/08/2023 08:09
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
My friend has an abortion at 24 weeks. It was late because they went to doctor after doctor hoping someone could tell them their baby was OK. Instead the fetus was so deformed, missing major organs, they told them the baby would only live a few hours in terrible pain.
That is why!!!!!
And the vast, overwhelming majority of abortions 2nd trimester on are situations like this. It isn't just a woman up and deciding that she doesn't want to be pregnant anymore. I've had 3 friends who have had to make that decision after 20 weeks, and it was absolutely devastating and gut-wrenching for the families.
Like him or not, Pete Buttigieg provided an excellent response to Chris Wallace's questioning about support for abortion after 20 weeks:
"So, let's put ourselves in the shoes of a woman in that situation. If it's that late in your pregnancy, that means almost by definition you've been expecting to carry it to term. We're talking about women who have perhaps chosen the name, women who have purchased the crib, families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime, something about the health or the life of the mother that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice. That decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made."
Anonymous
11/08/2023 07:37
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
My friend has an abortion at 24 weeks. It was late because they went to doctor after doctor hoping someone could tell them their baby was OK. Instead the fetus was so deformed, missing major organs, they told them the baby would only live a few hours in terrible pain.
That is why!!!!!
Anonymous
11/08/2023 07:37
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
Probably a bit longer until viability. Plus you don't know what devastating condition the fetus could have until at least 20 weeks. No one, and I repeat, no one is advocating for elective abortions right up until birth. The times where such an abortion is needed are universally tragic.
Not all birth defects are confirmable prior to 16 weeks
Anonymous
11/08/2023 07:36
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
I think Republicans keep losing on this issue because they are sending mixed messages. For instance, they argue that all abortion is murder and that life begins at the instant of conception, but are okay with abortion bans that start at 15 weeks. (If life begins at conception, then abortion is just as wrong at 13 weeks as it is at 16 weeks.) Or that only abortion doctors, and not women who receive abortions, should be punished for having an abortion. (If a husband hires a hit man to murder his wife, do we say that only the hit man should be arrested and charged with a crime?) Or that abortion is okay in cases of rape and incest. (Why should method of conception matter if the baby is innocent?) Republicans are failing miserably on the messaging because people can clearly recognize that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.
Anonymous
11/08/2023 07:36
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
In Virginia, abortion is legal up until viability (although it gets difficult as you get later).
I take it you haven't had a pregnancy scare? So you aren't familiar with this?
Anonymous
11/08/2023 07:36
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
The Governor was on video saying he wanted to restrict it to 6 weeks as did some of the other culture wars candidates … Virginians have let him know they are not on board with that …
Anonymous
11/08/2023 07:33
Subject: Roe v Wade struck down
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you.
I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?
Probably a bit longer until viability. Plus you don't know what devastating condition the fetus could have until at least 20 weeks. No one, and I repeat, no one is advocating for elective abortions right up until birth. The times where such an abortion is needed are universally tragic.