All of the people saying the "white guy went crazy and killed his family" are awfully quiet now..

Anonymous wrote:
Per the sheriff, the carrier was off him and standing next to him on the trail, frame backpacks have little "feet." The baby was in the backpack, with the dog near the baby. Ellen was found slightly up the trail. With the switchbacks it is hard to know if she was in sight or not.

In this case, baby and/or dog in distress. Mom races ahead to get the phone or seek help. Dad stays to try and do whatever he can. Is overcome with heat himself.
Horrifically heart wrenching no matter how it unfolded.

Anonymous wrote:Finally a conclusion to this curious story.

I think it is a little strange that the Husband/Father was found sitting up.
And how was it that they all seemingly died at the same moment??

There’s no evidence that they all died at the same moment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally a conclusion to this curious story.

I think it is a little strange that the Husband/Father was found sitting up.
And how was it that they all seemingly died at the same moment??

Do you think the body was posed so we wouldn't think it was unusual?

I thought the husband had the baby strapped to him in a carrier…so it makes sense to me that he was sitting up…

Per the sheriff, the carrier was off him and standing next to him on the trail, frame backpacks have little "feet." The baby was in the backpack, with the dog near the baby. Ellen was found slightly up the trail. With the switchbacks it is hard to know if she was in sight or not.

They could have died at varying times between Sun 8am and Tues 11 am.

The video shown at the press conference (available on YT) shows how steep the SL trail is, the switchbacks are another indication. The temps nearby were 109, in the canyon it may have been hotter with no shade and with the trail and rocks radiating heat back up. 104 is when the brain / core start to overheat. 109+ is too much heat for humans or canines to discharge effectively. Once HS starts there is a very small window of time to try to reverse it, involving ice, medical attention, etc, things not available on SL.

I do wonder if they even tried to call 911. HS affects thinking, did they even grasp the danger they were in? Even LE satellite phones did not work on the switchback were they were found, they had to hike out for a signal. Not sure if even a personal locator beacon could have helped.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on of the Arizona posters who posted 300 pages ago that it was inconceivable to me to leave on a bike like that so late in the morning especially with a dog and baby. I think people around the world are really going to have to adjust their expectations about what they can do given the rising global temperatures. Stay safe everyone. Mother Nature has a real wicked side.

Yeah, WTAF were they thinking?? And why didn’t they turn back way sooner? I would have attempted that hike with a dog and a baby in ideal conditions. Sounds mean but this seems like sort of a Darwin Award to me.

I think they took the wrong trail. The trail forks. One is an easy road the other a death trap. They weren’t stupid they were lost.

The extreme elevation change should have been a clue. It doesn't matter what someone else rated the trail as. Every step down a hill is a step up you need to take when returning.

THIS.

It was 105 on Saturday. There was an extreme heat warning for Sunday plus an air quality advisory due to smoke. No one else was on those trails Sunday, Monday or Tuesday, locals avoid them in summer heat. They did not even have hats or a collapsible water bowl for an older very furry dog. WTAF, there is no excuse for their arrogance and recklessness. Prior to her IG being closed she posted of prior close calls "all the gear and no idear" this time they did not even have adequate WATER. That dog and baby had not choice.

Yeah I don’t get this either.

Anonymous wrote:Finally a conclusion to this curious story.

I think it is a little strange that the Husband/Father was found sitting up.
And how was it that they all seemingly died at the same moment??

Who said they all died at the same moment? As many of us have mentioned multiple times, there are many scenarios where their positioning makes perfect sense. Here’s one. Dog is in distress by the time they reach the river. They dither about whether to go back the longer, but less steep way they came, and this time increases the likelihood of heat exhaustion they may have already felt. They decide to double-time it up the shorter, but very steep Savage Lundy trail, with the dad carrying both baby and dog. He needs to stop for a rest leaning against a switchback in the hill. They dither for a while more about whether to split up—I’m sure baby and dad were in distress by this point (6.5 miles of the 8 mile loop) with dog dying or dead. They decide mom should forge ahead and get more water or call/drive for help. She tries to sprint the remainder and collapses, overcome by the heat.

I think it is safe to assume that the mom and dad collapsed at some point relatively close in time, which is not surprising in those temps after such a strenuous hike, but the baby was helpless and dog may not have been able to move either. They both may have died either before or after the parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally a conclusion to this curious story.

I think it is a little strange that the Husband/Father was found sitting up.
And how was it that they all seemingly died at the same moment??

Do you think the body was posed so we wouldn't think it was unusual?

I thought the husband had the baby strapped to him in a carrier…so it makes sense to me that he was sitting up…

Anonymous wrote:Finally a conclusion to this curious story.

I think it is a little strange that the Husband/Father was found sitting up.
And how was it that they all seemingly died at the same moment??

Do you think the body was posed so we wouldn't think it was unusual?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally a conclusion to this curious story.

I think it is a little strange that the Husband/Father was found sitting up.
And how was it that they all seemingly died at the same moment??

You're bringing us back to reality. No idea. We've discussed every conceivable possibility plus a few outlandish ones, and still no idea. We'll probably never know.

+1

It's just a very strange, tragic story.

Anonymous wrote:Finally a conclusion to this curious story.

I think it is a little strange that the Husband/Father was found sitting up.
And how was it that they all seemingly died at the same moment??

You're bringing us back to reality. No idea. We've discussed every conceivable possibility plus a few outlandish ones, and still no idea. We'll probably never know.

Finally a conclusion to this curious story.

I think it is a little strange that the Husband/Father was found sitting up.
And how was it that they all seemingly died at the same moment??

Devil's Gulch is a very deep canyon, there is no "easy" trail out of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on of the Arizona posters who posted 300 pages ago that it was inconceivable to me to leave on a bike like that so late in the morning especially with a dog and baby. I think people around the world are really going to have to adjust their expectations about what they can do given the rising global temperatures. Stay safe everyone. Mother Nature has a real wicked side.

Yeah, WTAF were they thinking?? And why didn’t they turn back way sooner? I would have attempted that hike with a dog and a baby in ideal conditions. Sounds mean but this seems like sort of a Darwin Award to me.

I think they took the wrong trail. The trail forks. One is an easy road the other a death trap. They weren’t stupid they were lost.

The extreme elevation change should have been a clue. It doesn't matter what someone else rated the trail as. Every step down a hill is a step up you need to take when returning.

THIS.

It was 105 on Saturday. There was an extreme heat warning for Sunday plus an air quality advisory due to smoke. No one else was on those trails Sunday, Monday or Tuesday, locals avoid them in summer heat. They did not even have hats or a collapsible water bowl for an older very furry dog. WTAF, there is no excuse for their arrogance and recklessness. Prior to her IG being closed she posted of prior close calls "all the gear and no idear" this time they did not even have adequate WATER. That dog and baby had not choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on of the Arizona posters who posted 300 pages ago that it was inconceivable to me to leave on a bike like that so late in the morning especially with a dog and baby. I think people around the world are really going to have to adjust their expectations about what they can do given the rising global temperatures. Stay safe everyone. Mother Nature has a real wicked side.

Yeah, WTAF were they thinking?? And why didn’t they turn back way sooner? I would have attempted that hike with a dog and a baby in ideal conditions. Sounds mean but this seems like sort of a Darwin Award to me.

I think they took the wrong trail. The trail forks. One is an easy road the other a death trap. They weren’t stupid they were lost.

The extreme elevation change should have been a clue. It doesn't matter what someone else rated the trail as. Every step down a hill is a step up you need to take when returning.