Anonymous
02/17/2021 09:22
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:I often wonder if any of the people that say “flipping burgers” is easy work, have every worked any kind of food service or retail. It’s horrible thankless work. Count yourself lucky that you acquired the skills to move on or avoid it. Some people don’t, and that’s not their fault. They deserve to live off their work too, if they’re working full time.
"Easy" here pertains to skill level, and how common it is to find that level of skill among the population. A job may be physically demanding, but easy as a skill level.
Now if the idea is that some people just can't acquire the skill to be more productive, then we as a society may decide to provide a safety net for people in those situations. This is a problem best solved through direct payment transfers, such as UBI, tax credit, food aid, housing aid, etc. Raising the minimum wage is a terrible way to achieve this desired outcome because of the other consequences.
Anonymous
02/17/2021 09:13
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Incentivizes under the table payments, and illegal immigration.
Deincentivizes skilled trades, an apprentice electrician shouldn't be paid the same as a fast food worker.
Why not? Both are unskilled labor.
+1
One could argue that since the apprentice requires direct supervision, they should be paid less. Other professions don’t pay their interns at all.
Shows you know nothing about the trades. An apprentice is not an intern.
Also maybe it’s not so cool that some interns are paid nothing, because the system favors only relatively well-off young people being able to do internships.
I never could have afforded to work for free. Unpaid interns are getting subsidized by their parents.
So to get back to your original point...why shouldn't an apprentice electrician be paid the same as a fast food worker?
Np here. You have no idea what the apprentice label means in the trades. Do a couple hours of research and stop embarrassing yourself.
Actually I do know a little about it. My dad is an electrician. He was not an apprentice and has never had an apprentice but has talked about apprenticeships to me several times since I was a kid.
Now that I've proven my blue collar bona fides, can you explain why fast food workers shouldn't make the same thing as an apprentice electrician?
Then surely your father knows the requirements to become a journeyman?
DP. The rest of us had to take out loans that we are still paying off to become professionals so maybe pipe down. A 15 dollar an hour summer job would have helped me out a ton while I was working for free. Ridiculous to begrudge people a living wage because of some misguided fear that they are a threat to you or your profession.
LOL, talk about gaslighting. First, compare someone's profession's economic value to a fast-food worker, and then when they enthusiastically point out the folly of this comparison, you tell them to pipe down and criticize their reaction as "misguided".
Anonymous
02/17/2021 08:01
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Of you don’t support a living wage, the you must support a social safety net. And if you don’t, I don’t want to hear from you because you are morally bankrupt or possibly just really old and don’t understand how bad things are today if you’re born a nobody with no money to parents that have had no education and/or don’t speak English. 60 years ago, that person had a chance. They could take a low skilled job and get paid a fair wage, and go to school cheaply, while supporting a parent or sibling. I know it because that’s my family story. The minimum wage went a lot further back then, and it’s time to make it work today.
Anonymous
02/17/2021 07:53
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
I often wonder if any of the people that say “flipping burgers” is easy work, have every worked any kind of food service or retail. It’s horrible thankless work. Count yourself lucky that you acquired the skills to move on or avoid it. Some people don’t, and that’s not their fault. They deserve to live off their work too, if they’re working full time.
Anonymous
02/17/2021 07:52
Subject: Re:Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DP. The rest of us had to take out loans that we are still paying off to become professionals so maybe pipe down. A 15 dollar an hour summer job would have helped me out a ton while I was working for free. Ridiculous to begrudge people a living wage because of some misguided fear that they are a threat to you or your profession.
DP. "Working for Free" does not automatically turn into "working for $15 per hour." You do not have to work for free. But, raising minimum wage just means that there will be fewer opportunities to get jobs that allow you to save for college. And, if "free interns" get paid, there will certainly be fewer opportunities to get internships.
There are other options. Go to community college first two years; work weekends and summers; skip Spring break trips; eat ramen; ROTC scholarship; etc.
Pay off your loans before you take that trip to Europe or purchase an expensive car. Read menus from right to left. Etc.
An apprentice is getting paid to get their education -‘d I don’t begrudge them that because the profession needs people more than mine does—it’s hard work. But it’s essentially paid graduate school. So that’s why it’s a minimum wage job. Like other graduate “students” the pay sucks but you finish up as a pro and it’s worth it. Someone workig 40 hours a week deserves the same pay, regardless of their trajectory..
As it currently stands, skilled trades apprentices aren't minimum wage jobs. An electrician apprentice with less than 1000 hours of experience makes around $18 an hour.
So why do they get paid more than double the minimum wage? Well, the requirements to start the job are higher than a McJob, you need to be reasonably intelligent, have color vision. Also its physically challenging, and you work in unpleasant locations.
Will skilled trades apprentice salaries have to be raised should we have a $15 minimum wage? That's a good question.
Anonymous
02/17/2021 07:22
Subject: Re:Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:DP. The rest of us had to take out loans that we are still paying off to become professionals so maybe pipe down. A 15 dollar an hour summer job would have helped me out a ton while I was working for free. Ridiculous to begrudge people a living wage because of some misguided fear that they are a threat to you or your profession.
DP. "Working for Free" does not automatically turn into "working for $15 per hour." You do not have to work for free. But, raising minimum wage just means that there will be fewer opportunities to get jobs that allow you to save for college. And, if "free interns" get paid, there will certainly be fewer opportunities to get internships.
There are other options. Go to community college first two years; work weekends and summers; skip Spring break trips; eat ramen; ROTC scholarship; etc.
Pay off your loans before you take that trip to Europe or purchase an expensive car. Read menus from right to left. Etc.
An apprentice is getting paid to get their education -‘d I don’t begrudge them that because the profession needs people more than mine does—it’s hard work. But it’s essentially paid graduate school. So that’s why it’s a minimum wage job. Like other graduate “students” the pay sucks but you finish up as a pro and it’s worth it. Someone workig 40 hours a week deserves the same pay, regardless of their trajectory..
Anonymous
02/17/2021 07:16
Subject: Re:Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
DP. The rest of us had to take out loans that we are still paying off to become professionals so maybe pipe down. A 15 dollar an hour summer job would have helped me out a ton while I was working for free. Ridiculous to begrudge people a living wage because of some misguided fear that they are a threat to you or your profession.
DP. "Working for Free" does not automatically turn into "working for $15 per hour." You do not have to work for free. But, raising minimum wage just means that there will be fewer opportunities to get jobs that allow you to save for college. And, if "free interns" get paid, there will certainly be fewer opportunities to get internships.
There are other options. Go to community college first two years; work weekends and summers; skip Spring break trips; eat ramen; ROTC scholarship; etc.
Pay off your loans before you take that trip to Europe or purchase an expensive car. Read menus from right to left. Etc.
Anonymous
02/17/2021 07:08
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Incentivizes under the table payments, and illegal immigration.
Deincentivizes skilled trades, an apprentice electrician shouldn't be paid the same as a fast food worker.
Why not? Both are unskilled labor.
+1
One could argue that since the apprentice requires direct supervision, they should be paid less. Other professions don’t pay their interns at all.
Shows you know nothing about the trades. An apprentice is not an intern.
Also maybe it’s not so cool that some interns are paid nothing, because the system favors only relatively well-off young people being able to do internships.
I never could have afforded to work for free. Unpaid interns are getting subsidized by their parents.
So to get back to your original point...why shouldn't an apprentice electrician be paid the same as a fast food worker?
Np here. You have no idea what the apprentice label means in the trades. Do a couple hours of research and stop embarrassing yourself.
Actually I do know a little about it. My dad is an electrician. He was not an apprentice and has never had an apprentice but has talked about apprenticeships to me several times since I was a kid.
Now that I've proven my blue collar bona fides, can you explain why fast food workers shouldn't make the same thing as an apprentice electrician?
Then surely your father knows the requirements to become a journeyman?
DP. The rest of us had to take out loans that we are still paying off to become professionals so maybe pipe down. A 15 dollar an hour summer job would have helped me out a ton while I was working for free. Ridiculous to begrudge people a living wage because of some misguided fear that they are a threat to you or your profession.
Anonymous
02/16/2021 22:34
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Incentivizes under the table payments, and illegal immigration.
Deincentivizes skilled trades, an apprentice electrician shouldn't be paid the same as a fast food worker.
Why not? Both are unskilled labor.
+1
One could argue that since the apprentice requires direct supervision, they should be paid less. Other professions don’t pay their interns at all.
Shows you know nothing about the trades. An apprentice is not an intern.
Also maybe it’s not so cool that some interns are paid nothing, because the system favors only relatively well-off young people being able to do internships.
I never could have afforded to work for free. Unpaid interns are getting subsidized by their parents.
So to get back to your original point...why shouldn't an apprentice electrician be paid the same as a fast food worker?
Np here. You have no idea what the apprentice label means in the trades. Do a couple hours of research and stop embarrassing yourself.
Actually I do know a little about it. My dad is an electrician. He was not an apprentice and has never had an apprentice but has talked about apprenticeships to me several times since I was a kid.
Now that I've proven my blue collar bona fides, can you explain why fast food workers shouldn't make the same thing as an apprentice electrician?
Then surely your father knows the requirements to become a journeyman?
Anonymous
02/16/2021 22:33
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Incentivizes under the table payments, and illegal immigration.
Deincentivizes skilled trades, an apprentice electrician shouldn't be paid the same as a fast food worker.
Why not? Both are unskilled labor.
+1
One could argue that since the apprentice requires direct supervision, they should be paid less. Other professions don’t pay their interns at all.
Shows you know nothing about the trades. An apprentice is not an intern.
Also maybe it’s not so cool that some interns are paid nothing, because the system favors only relatively well-off young people being able to do internships.
I never could have afforded to work for free. Unpaid interns are getting subsidized by their parents.
So to get back to your original point...why shouldn't an apprentice electrician be paid the same as a fast food worker?
I'm the original poster. I'm guessing you don't interact much with people in the skilled trades. As an engineer I most certainly do.
They have far more education for one thing. You get around 150 hours of classroom training each year (4 weeks), plus 2000 hours of on the job training, by doing the work for a period of about 5 years. You also have to have passed the electrical trades aptitude test to even start as an apprentice, which requires being able to do algebra and functions. Considering you can flip burgers at age 14 with working papers, this is a higher requirement than most professions.
Anonymous
02/16/2021 21:14
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Incentivizes under the table payments, and illegal immigration.
Deincentivizes skilled trades, an apprentice electrician shouldn't be paid the same as a fast food worker.
Why not? Both are unskilled labor.
+1
One could argue that since the apprentice requires direct supervision, they should be paid less. Other professions don’t pay their interns at all.
Shows you know nothing about the trades. An apprentice is not an intern.
Also maybe it’s not so cool that some interns are paid nothing, because the system favors only relatively well-off young people being able to do internships.
I never could have afforded to work for free. Unpaid interns are getting subsidized by their parents.
So to get back to your original point...why shouldn't an apprentice electrician be paid the same as a fast food worker?
Np here. You have no idea what the apprentice label means in the trades. Do a couple hours of research and stop embarrassing yourself.
Actually I do know a little about it. My dad is an electrician. He was not an apprentice and has never had an apprentice but has talked about apprenticeships to me several times since I was a kid.
Now that I've proven my blue collar bona fides, can you explain why fast food workers shouldn't make the same thing as an apprentice electrician?
Anonymous
02/16/2021 21:11
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:
You do realize at the moment an employer can not ask about immigration status right?
That’s the issue, everyone blames the employer for hiring them, when it’s illegal for us to even ask if they are here legally. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t not allow us to ask, then blame us when we don’t know.
Cotton and Romney are probably going to strengthen eVerify and make it a requirement in this bill. Romney has mentioned eVerify several times as a priority in the past few years.
Anonymous
02/16/2021 20:47
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
You do realize at the moment an employer can not ask about immigration status right?
That’s the issue, everyone blames the employer for hiring them, when it’s illegal for us to even ask if they are here legally. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t not allow us to ask, then blame us when we don’t know.
Anonymous
02/16/2021 19:55
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Incentivizes under the table payments, and illegal immigration.
Deincentivizes skilled trades, an apprentice electrician shouldn't be paid the same as a fast food worker.
Why not? Both are unskilled labor.
+1
One could argue that since the apprentice requires direct supervision, they should be paid less. Other professions don’t pay their interns at all.
Shows you know nothing about the trades. An apprentice is not an intern.
Also maybe it’s not so cool that some interns are paid nothing, because the system favors only relatively well-off young people being able to do internships.
I never could have afforded to work for free. Unpaid interns are getting subsidized by their parents.
So to get back to your original point...why shouldn't an apprentice electrician be paid the same as a fast food worker?
Np here. You have no idea what the apprentice label means in the trades. Do a couple hours of research and stop embarrassing yourself.
Anonymous
02/16/2021 18:42
Subject: Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Incentivizes under the table payments, and illegal immigration.
Deincentivizes skilled trades, an apprentice electrician shouldn't be paid the same as a fast food worker.
Why not? Both are unskilled labor.
+1
One could argue that since the apprentice requires direct supervision, they should be paid less. Other professions don’t pay their interns at all.
Shows you know nothing about the trades. An apprentice is not an intern.
Also maybe it’s not so cool that some interns are paid nothing, because the system favors only relatively well-off young people being able to do internships.
I never could have afforded to work for free. Unpaid interns are getting subsidized by their parents.
So to get back to your original point...why shouldn't an apprentice electrician be paid the same as a fast food worker?