Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

Exactly. They are both important to address, but they are NOT the same.
Why XY trans women and their supporters are so adamant in grouping them together is what I don't understand.

+1
I want to say that I fully support trans rights, both trans men and trans women. I fully get that some people are born in the wrong body, that there are several genetic variations on biological sex (upthread I think we saw that discussion of XXY chromosome people and similar things), but a trans woman’s body is not biologically female, a trans man’s body is not biologically male.

And tweets that disagree with a person’s beliefs aren’t inherently mean.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

We’ve already explained she can think whatever she wants. It’s disgusting to use her massive platform in PRIDE month to voice these opinions about trans women. You think it’s coincidence she chose to center her white cis voice in *this* month? why does the world need to hear over and over again that JK Rowling doesn’t consider trans women real women? She seems insistent everyone knows how much she thinks this and like... nobody even asked her. She’s a children’s book author with massive cultural impact who now uses that platform to voice harmful opinions.

Jk lives in the UK, where right now there is legislation being worked on to allow gender self-identification. It’s a topic of current interest where she lives. It has nothing to do with Pride month.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

Hey look, I googled for you and here’s a handy write up of her history with trans issues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vogue.com/article/jk-rowling-transphobic-tweets/amp

This is just.. the tweets we have all already seen, plus Vogue's commentary on that and a selection of responses to her tweets - but obviously not all, because not everyone agrees with those replies to her tweets.

Anonymous wrote:The crazy thing to me is everyone against her is assuming we support her out of ignorance. They tell us to read her tweets as if we haven’t already. To go “meet trans women” (I know many, and even more trans men and “non-binary” Women and men). Many of them don’t know any trans people. That we should “educate ourselves” on why “all scientists agree” that sex is actually a spectrum.

OUR OPINION DOES NOT STEM FROM IGNORANCE. We are just as, potentially more knowledgeable than you are on trans issues. And we see the downsides to the extremist position a vocal minority hold.

Yes and she gets the same thing. Look how many replies to her tweets she has saying "Go and talk to a queer person". She has! There's a very unpleasant pervasive mindset that there is one official view that all educated people will hold, if you've taken the time to explore an issue. But these are issues with multiple nuances and facets and it is perfectly possible, and expected, for intelligent, reasonable, kind people to have done all of the research and come to a different conclusion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

Hey look, I googled for you and here’s a handy write up of her history with trans issues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vogue.com/article/jk-rowling-transphobic-tweets/amp

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

We’ve already explained she can think whatever she wants. It’s disgusting to use her massive platform in PRIDE month to voice these opinions about trans women. You think it’s coincidence she chose to center her white cis voice in *this* month? why does the world need to hear over and over again that JK Rowling doesn’t consider trans women real women? She seems insistent everyone knows how much she thinks this and like... nobody even asked her. She’s a children’s book author with massive cultural impact who now uses that platform to voice harmful opinions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

The crazy thing to me is everyone against her is assuming we support her out of ignorance. They tell us to read her tweets as if we haven’t already. To go “meet trans women” (I know many, and even more trans men and “non-binary” Women and men). Many of them don’t know any trans people. That we should “educate ourselves” on why “all scientists agree” that sex is actually a spectrum.

OUR OPINION DOES NOT STEM FROM IGNORANCE. We are just as, potentially more knowledgeable than you are on trans issues. And we see the downsides to the extremist position a vocal minority hold.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read her piece. It seems to be a completely reasonable position, but I know nothing about this issue. I've also seen online that some trans people are very offended by it, but some trans people are very supportive. The same for non trans people. So why does there need such hatred and vitriol towards her - why can't it just be accepted that this her opinion and it may be different from yours but it's certainly valid, and doesn't seek to harm anyone.

It's because of her position as a children's author, as one of the most well known children's authors of all time.

Because the issue is not one for adults anymore but is now an issue for children.

Even kid book authors can comment on adult matters. Twitter is not for kids, and you should definitely monitor your child's internet usage.

These are children's matters now. Children transition now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read her piece. It seems to be a completely reasonable position, but I know nothing about this issue. I've also seen online that some trans people are very offended by it, but some trans people are very supportive. The same for non trans people. So why does there need such hatred and vitriol towards her - why can't it just be accepted that this her opinion and it may be different from yours but it's certainly valid, and doesn't seek to harm anyone.

It's because of her position as a children's author, as one of the most well known children's authors of all time.

Because the issue is not one for adults anymore but is now an issue for children.

Even kid book authors can comment on adult matters. Twitter is not for kids, and you should definitely monitor your child's internet usage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

Exactly. They are both important to address, but they are NOT the same.
Why XY trans women and their supporters are so adamant in grouping them together is what I don't understand.

It’s magical thinking. What I want to be true is literally true, and damn you for pointing out that it’s not literally true. It’s a truly juvenile way of thinking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

No pp has a good point. Trans men seem totally fine with either, 1) being in a state of transition and being known as a Trans man, 2) using their female anatomy (menstruating/pregnancy) while presenting as a man and functioning as a trans man or 3) being fully transitioned and just being a man

Women are raised and conditioned to not intrusively take over spaces so I think this is women doing what they’re socialize to do and easing into being men. And trans women do what men do, intrusively enter and take over the space without carrying much about what was happening before they got there.

Just stop.

How many trans people do you know or interact with on a regular basis?

This is exactly the kind of militant response that is wrong here. People can support ending discrimination of trans people and advocate for them without having to completely agree with you that they are the same as other women. They are not. The experience of a trans woman is not the same as those of us who were born genetically female. It. just. isn't. Just because I acknowledge these difference does not mean I do not have compassion or that I do not want trans people to be accepted and safe and loved.

You don't get to tell us to "just stop". Stop with your thought policing. You hurt the cause, not help, when you just try to shut down discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read her piece. It seems to be a completely reasonable position, but I know nothing about this issue. I've also seen online that some trans people are very offended by it, but some trans people are very supportive. The same for non trans people. So why does there need such hatred and vitriol towards her - why can't it just be accepted that this her opinion and it may be different from yours but it's certainly valid, and doesn't seek to harm anyone.

It's because of her position as a children's author, as one of the most well known children's authors of all time.

Because the issue is not one for adults anymore but is now an issue for children.

Right. So she’s in a better position than most to realize that many bright and especially sensitive young people who don’t neatly fit into a box are handling the chaos of puberty by believing that they somehow have landed in the wrong body, and that changing their gender is the solution. Hence the +4,000-fold increase in girls presenting at gender clinics in the UK. It’s not that she doesn’t know or doesn’t care, it’s that she really does know and really does care.

Anonymous wrote:I read her piece. It seems to be a completely reasonable position, but I know nothing about this issue. I've also seen online that some trans people are very offended by it, but some trans people are very supportive. The same for non trans people. So why does there need such hatred and vitriol towards her - why can't it just be accepted that this her opinion and it may be different from yours but it's certainly valid, and doesn't seek to harm anyone.

There is a sad lack of appreciation for nuance and tolerance for differing opinions any more. So many people think that if you are not on their side of a solid line, you are wrong, immoral, and the enemy. And that solid line applies retroactively, so be careful of expressing any opinions publicly. A socially acceptable 2020 opinion may get you burned and cancelled in 2025.

Tolerance is a thing of the past.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

Exactly. They are both important to address, but they are NOT the same.
Why XY trans women and their supporters are so adamant in grouping them together is what I don't understand.