Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx, Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts. My family didn't have it easy coming over. Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling. I see it in the school system. We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts. You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same. I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me. When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right? b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty. My father barely had a home; it was crumbling. Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S. (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want! You don't speak for all of us. And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020.

Italians were considered brown and were racially targeted by whites a hundred years ago. many still consider Italians brown. Italians are often confused with Syrians, Turks, Persians and even Indians. Now, would you call Persian or Indian white? But they are white.

You see what I am driving at, race is a social construct. A hundred years ago Italians weren’t considered white but today they are. What has changed? Just the social acceptance. The same Applies for Hispanics. Brown is the new white.

The immigrant blue collar Hispanics are struggling just like your uneducated, blue collar parents. Many work very hard and prosper. Some won’t. But that’s like any people. So they are no different than your Italian parents. But what you are not giving is the same benefit of the doubt you readily give your parents. Why not?

We are NO LONGER considered brown.

So yes, I know my history. Yes, my father, uncle and grandfathers were not served food in diners after a hard day's work b/c they were too brown. I am not brown. I am a light-skinned Southern Italian. I check off the white box. And my father checked off the white box, too, despite his dark complexion, as there's no box for olive-complected, Italian-American.

I just want to make that clear.

Regarding the "benefit of the doubt" comment, I don't give anyone any slack. If my poor father could make it here, learn English, start up multiple businesses, and love the United States - all w/o translation services and social programs - then why can't others do the same?

You see - when you start to lower your standards for people, you create learned helplessness. My mother came here young. She was thrown into a public school classroom with no ESOL accommodations. She sat there, smiled and was polite. She worked her way through school and ended up with a government job. no college education, just a high school diploma and secretarial school

She helped her own parents learn English. However, despite my grandfather's rusty English, he had a business that was thriving.

You apparently wish to box all people under one category. Not all immigrants believe in handouts. Not all immigrants wish to be helpless.

So if I sound like a horrible person to you, so be it. We have to agree to disagree.

But I'll leave you with this: How can you explain how so many immigrants in past generations "made it" MINUS all the resources available to immigrants of today? You don't put enough faith in the human spirit, my friend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx, Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts. My family didn't have it easy coming over. Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling. I see it in the school system. We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts. You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same. I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me. When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right? b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty. My father barely had a home; it was crumbling. Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S. (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want! You don't speak for all of us. And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020.

Italians were considered brown and were racially targeted by whites a hundred years ago. many still consider Italians brown. Italians are often confused with Syrians, Turks, Persians and even Indians. Now, would you call Persian or Indian white? But they are white.

You see what I am driving at, race is a social construct. A hundred years ago Italians weren’t considered white but today they are. What has changed? Just the social acceptance. The same Applies for Hispanics. Brown is the new white.

The immigrant blue collar Hispanics are struggling just like your uneducated, blue collar parents. Many work very hard and prosper. Some won’t. But that’s like any people. So they are no different than your Italian parents. But what you are not giving is the same benefit of the doubt you readily give your parents. Why not?

We are NO LONGER considered brown.

So yes, I know my history. Yes, my father, uncle and grandfathers were not served food in diners after a hard day's work b/c they were too brown. I am not brown. I am a light-skinned Southern Italian. I check off the white box. And my father checked off the white box, too, despite his dark complexion, as there's no box for olive-complected, Italian-American.

I just want to make that clear.

Regarding the "benefit of the doubt" comment, I don't give anyone any slack. If my poor father could make it here, learn English, start up multiple businesses, and love the United States - all w/o translation services and social programs - then why can't others do the same?

You see - when you start to lower your standards for people, you create learned helplessness. My mother came here young. She was thrown into a public school classroom with no ESOL accommodations. She sat there, smiled and was polite. She worked her way through school and ended up with a government job. no college education, just a high school diploma and secretarial school

She helped her own parents learn English. However, despite my grandfather's rusty English, he had a business that was thriving.

You apparently wish to box all people under one category. Not all immigrants believe in handouts. Not all immigrants wish to be helpless.

So if I sound like a horrible person to you, so be it. We have to agree to disagree.

But I'll leave you with this: How can you explain how so many immigrants in past generations "made it" MINUS all the resources available to immigrants of today? You don't put enough faith in the human spirit, my friend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wait... just to recap... you’re actually equating driving a few miles over the speed limit to people *illegally entering and living in the US*? Wow. Just when I thought I had heard all possible liberal excuses.

What, you think not having your paperwork in order is like murder or something? If anything, speeding is slightly more dangerous.

You officially win the Looney Liberal of DCUM award. Well, you and the insane "Cult45, Russian puppet, Australian channel" poster. Congrats!

Your spluttering doesn't really address the substance of my position. Failing to get the proper stamp on your paperwork doesn't amount to a serious crime in my estimation. I'm probably more of a libertarian than you are. Statists tend to value government bureaucracy more than liberty.

Such an understatement of the immigration issue...

Anonymous wrote:All Trump has to say is "The Democrats care for the world's poor. I care about the American poor."

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I broke into your house this weekend. You just forgot to put me on your invite list. Just an insignificant technicality. No big deal, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx, Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts. My family didn't have it easy coming over. Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling. I see it in the school system. We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts. You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same. I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me. When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right? b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty. My father barely had a home; it was crumbling. Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S. (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want! You don't speak for all of us. And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020.

Italians were considered brown and were racially targeted by whites a hundred years ago. many still consider Italians brown. Italians are often confused with Syrians, Turks, Persians and even Indians. Now, would you call Persian or Indian white? But they are white.

You see what I am driving at, race is a social construct. A hundred years ago Italians weren’t considered white but today they are. What has changed? Just the social acceptance. The same Applies for Hispanics. Brown is the new white.

The immigrant blue collar Hispanics are struggling just like your uneducated, blue collar parents. Many work very hard and prosper. Some won’t. But that’s like any people. So they are no different than your Italian parents. But what you are not giving is the same benefit of the doubt you readily give your parents. Why not?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I broke into your house this weekend. You just forgot to put me on your invite list. Just an insignificant technicality. No big deal, right?

Exactly. The PP insisting illegal immigration is merely a “technicality” is a complete moron.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That's why many low-income Americans will choose Trump. They feel left out with the current favoritism of illegals by the Democrat party.

Mostly just the white ones. Non-white low income Americans by and large favor the Democrats. So, Trump support is mostly a function of being white; not being poor.

I’m not white and also not poor and am closer to Trump than to the current crop of Dems on immigration. I loathe Trump and don’t think I can bring myself to vote for him, but I might sit out the election (as a PA voter) if the Democratic candidate is too far left on immigration. And there are lots more like me.

Then you're completely gullible and have fallen for the Bannon/Miller long play to inflate immigration into a voting issue. Please, think more critically. What the Democrats are reacting to is the Trump administration's purposefully vicious acts -- arbitrarily pulling visas on the basis of religion; separating children; putting children in detention camps instead of better shelters. They did this on purpose, to get a reaction out of Democrats, so they in turn could create the specter of the "emergency at the border" and claim that the Democrats' reaction TO THEIR VICIOUSNESS constitutes being "too far left on immigration."

So please, actually look at the record of the Democratic party on immigration, as well as the candidates. Literally nobody is calling for open borders.

DP. Wow, you've really fallen hard for the propaganda of the left, haven't you? You *actually* believe the bolded. Aren't you the party who thinks you're so much better educated than everyone else? Hint: you're not - and it shows.

You need to wake up and stop with the right wing propaganda. The bolder by the pp is the truth.

What you view as “truth” is absolutely left wing propaganda. Only someone completely brainwashed would believe this administration somehow “engineered” the very real border crisis in order to “get a reaction” from Democrats. Unbelievable that you actually believe this insanity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx, Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts. My family didn't have it easy coming over. Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling. I see it in the school system. We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts. You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same. I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me. When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right? b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty. My father barely had a home; it was crumbling. Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S. (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want! You don't speak for all of us. And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020.

How were your parents able to immigrate?

Dad and my grandfather worked. They saved money, hopped on a boat & came through Ellis Island. They rented an apartment in PG County and worked as stonemasons. When they saved up enough money, they brought the others over - grandmother, aunts & uncle. My father & uncle served in WWII.

Eventually, their business grew and they parted ways, each opening up his own business.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

They helped each other and bc they were honest & talented, their businesses grew.

Immigration doesn’t work that way anymore.

really?

It worked that way for my nanny (El Salvador). It worked that way for my friend's husband (Italy). . . for my neighbor (Russia) . . . for my niece's boyfriend (Ireland)

No one says it's an easy process, and based on what little I know, it could be simplified. But again, if there's a will, there's a way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wait... just to recap... you’re actually equating driving a few miles over the speed limit to people *illegally entering and living in the US*? Wow. Just when I thought I had heard all possible liberal excuses.

What, you think not having your paperwork in order is like murder or something? If anything, speeding is slightly more dangerous.

You officially win the Looney Liberal of DCUM award. Well, you and the insane "Cult45, Russian puppet, Australian channel" poster. Congrats!

Your spluttering doesn't really address the substance of my position. Failing to get the proper stamp on your paperwork doesn't amount to a serious crime in my estimation. I'm probably more of a libertarian than you are. Statists tend to value government bureaucracy more than liberty.

Such an understatement of the immigration issue...

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I broke into your house this weekend. You just forgot to put me on your invite list. Just an insignificant technicality. No big deal, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That's why many low-income Americans will choose Trump. They feel left out with the current favoritism of illegals by the Democrat party.

Mostly just the white ones. Non-white low income Americans by and large favor the Democrats. So, Trump support is mostly a function of being white; not being poor.

I’m not white and also not poor and am closer to Trump than to the current crop of Dems on immigration. I loathe Trump and don’t think I can bring myself to vote for him, but I might sit out the election (as a PA voter) if the Democratic candidate is too far left on immigration. And there are lots more like me.

Then you're completely gullible and have fallen for the Bannon/Miller long play to inflate immigration into a voting issue. Please, think more critically. What the Democrats are reacting to is the Trump administration's purposefully vicious acts -- arbitrarily pulling visas on the basis of religion; separating children; putting children in detention camps instead of better shelters. They did this on purpose, to get a reaction out of Democrats, so they in turn could create the specter of the "emergency at the border" and claim that the Democrats' reaction TO THEIR VICIOUSNESS constitutes being "too far left on immigration."

So please, actually look at the record of the Democratic party on immigration, as well as the candidates. Literally nobody is calling for open borders.

I’m the PP you’re responding to. And look, I disagree with you and I resent your assumption that Democrats (and people, in general) who disagree with you on this issue are somehow stupid or gullible. We don’t know each other, but I can tell you that I’m just as educated and capable of critical thinking as you. I agree that the current situation on the border (“children in detention camps”) is horrible and unsustainable. Where I disagree with you is that we need to fix the system in the long term by disincentivizing people to cross the border in the first place. We need to stop rewarding bogus asylum seekers, many of whom are just economic migrants, by allowing them to cross the border in the first place. They should apply in their home countries or wait in Mexico to be approved so that we’re not in the business of housing them and their children at all. And of course we should continue to enforce immigration laws and criminalize unlawful entry. And, frankly, I am fine with deporting those who have knowingly and willfully violated our immigration laws and skipped the line where plenty of highly-skilled would-be immigrants from other countries are waiting to years to do it the right way. I don’t agree that simply “wanting a better life” is appropriate justification - we cannot help all of the world’s poor, and there are plenty of poor Americans that the government should help first. And unfortunate as it is, many of the Democratic candidates simply refuse to acknowledge this. So while Trump is not going about it the right way, and the situation at the border is awful, he is at least articulating something the Democrats won’t, and I’m afraid that he’s going to win because of it. While none of the Democrats are officially arguing for open borders, please review Julian Castro’s immigration plan (it’s on his website) and let me know how, functionally, that is different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That's why many low-income Americans will choose Trump. They feel left out with the current favoritism of illegals by the Democrat party.

Mostly just the white ones. Non-white low income Americans by and large favor the Democrats. So, Trump support is mostly a function of being white; not being poor.

I’m not white and also not poor and am closer to Trump than to the current crop of Dems on immigration. I loathe Trump and don’t think I can bring myself to vote for him, but I might sit out the election (as a PA voter) if the Democratic candidate is too far left on immigration. And there are lots more like me.

Then you're completely gullible and have fallen for the Bannon/Miller long play to inflate immigration into a voting issue. Please, think more critically. What the Democrats are reacting to is the Trump administration's purposefully vicious acts -- arbitrarily pulling visas on the basis of religion; separating children; putting children in detention camps instead of better shelters. They did this on purpose, to get a reaction out of Democrats, so they in turn could create the specter of the "emergency at the border" and claim that the Democrats' reaction TO THEIR VICIOUSNESS constitutes being "too far left on immigration."

So please, actually look at the record of the Democratic party on immigration, as well as the candidates. Literally nobody is calling for open borders.

DP. Wow, you've really fallen hard for the propaganda of the left, haven't you? You *actually* believe the bolded. Aren't you the party who thinks you're so much better educated than everyone else? Hint: you're not - and it shows.

You need to wake up and stop with the right wing propaganda. The bolder by the pp is the truth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

I don’t know of any first generation Hispanic who can’t speak English. They are bilingual. Why is that an issue?

depends on your definition of English, I suppose

Many native born students can barely read and write. When English is taught in the classroom but not reinforced at home, there are issues using the standard English on a daily basis.

too many factors to get into - But the lowered standards in our educational system are destroying how our young people communicate.[/quotes]

What you said applies to many white/black native born Americans too. They barely can string together a sentence. Many don’t even know the difference between your and you’re, their and there, etc. That speaks for the bad education of American public schools, not about Hispanics alone. And bad schools is directly a result of tax cut after tax cuts for the wealthy leaving very lil for education and healthcare of poor and middle class Americans. Why aren’t you opposing the GOP for cuts to education and healthcare ?