Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

Perhaps.
But definitely true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

Fixed that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

It still would have been a near miss. That SUV was speeding past the stopped car and into the crosswalk. The adult would have been a few feet farther into the crosswalk is all.

Yes, but much less risky. The mom would have had hands on the kid and likely stopped before the SUV even entered the crosswalk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

It still would have been a near miss. That SUV was speeding past the stopped car and into the crosswalk. The adult would have been a few feet farther into the crosswalk is all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

If we're talking tort law, in DC and MD if the biker is even 1% at fault, they don't recover. I'm guessing that the parents would not recover anything in this kind of case. But please note I think this is an absurd discussion about legal liability - if you chose to bike or drive in traffic, there are certain rules of human behavior and physics that you need to be informed of and take into account, and take precautions. If you want to do ANY kind of outdoor hobby (biking in a city, hiking, boating) it's on YOU to understand the basics of safety. Not to claim that it's "blaming the victim" to learn about safety!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That family should have waited for all the cars on that road to stop.
Yes, the driver in the SUV was clearly wrong, but we live in an imperfect world and all the legal right in the world won't make up for your kid dying in an accident.
Also, I heard a car honking, so thankfully, at least one stopped driver was able to intervene and alert the moving SUV to slow down.

This 1000%. The mom should have NEVER let her small child bike across unaccompanied on that busy road. Or the dad should have waited and walked altogether with his kids. I don't fault the SUV. I understand that people will disagree but I do not think it's the SUV responsibility to necessarily slow down if the car to the left is stopped. That car could be making a left or asleep at the wheel. It is, however, the responsibility of the parents to make sure the kids are safe at a crossing that does not have a stop light or very visible signage that someone is crossing.

Are you kidding me? It was ILLEGAL for that SUV to pass the car stopped at the crosswalk. In Maryland, that is a driving offense. It's also Illegal for them to go into the crosswalk while it's occupied. There's probably enough violations in that video alone for the drive of the SUV to lose their license.

People are talking about keeping children safe while you are asking Maryland to enforce traffic laws. Are you insane?

Not the PP you are responding to, but I agree and am quite sane. Maybe you need to wrap your kids in armor and transport them in SUVs to keep them safe, but if safety requires this kind of thing, we should spend more time making streets safe than shaming parents. Just as we should spend time fighting rape culture, not blame women for going to parties, etc.

But this being DCUM, parenting shaming is going to appeal to many people rather than advocating social change

OMG. did you just compare basic safe biking principals to rape culture? Seriously? What's wrong with you?

WALK YOUR KID ACROSS BUSY INTERSECTIONS. Yes, the SUV was wrong; but the parents were also wrong.

I compared the way we talk about things. Do we lecture the victim about not taking adequate precautions, or try to change the society that forces precautions that should not be necessary.

]

I'm not lecturing the victim - I am using this opportunity to make sure people are educated about safe biking. Is it also "forcing precautions" to teach teens the basics of defensive driving, and to teach kids to look both ways before crossing the street? Sheesh.

You are absolutely lecturing the victim - you are saying the parents were at fault. And on top of that, complaining that other people are talking about enforcing the law against unsafe drivers. It is very much like focusing on "What was she wearing, why did she have drinks at a frat?".

And again, I don't see what they did that was unsafe. I can't see how walking dismounted would be safer than riding at a walking pace, or how riding with the dad would make the child safer in this instance.

No, I absolutely think the law should be enforced; and I think the city is the most at fault for putting the crosswalk there.

But you're utterly insane if you don't think the parents messed up hugely here.

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is a yellow sign a few feet back indicating the presence of pedestrians. This is a 30MPH road. A vigilant driver, going 30MPH, should have been able to see the family and stop - and the stopped car in the left lane should have added to their caution, even if there was a chance it was waiting to turn.

But we want the right to drive at 40MPH, without being vigilant, on roads like that, so we blame the people crossing in the crosswalk instead.

Then when people cross OUTSIDE crosswalks, we say "safety problems are caused by jaywalkers" and wonder why people cross where there is no crosswalk.

Well, duh! If people don't want to get hit crossing the road, then they shouldn't cross the road! They should get into a car and drive, like normal people!

Or so I infer, from some of the comments.

\

No, they should follow the very basic principals of safe biking, which they could easily learn if they bothered to.

I don't see what principal they failed to follow. They crossed in a crosswalk, they rode at a moderate speed, they appear to have looked appropriately for cross traffic, and they were using equipment colored to be quite visible.

Again, a pedestrian walking here would have been just as vulnerable.

Ok, I posted many, many links about this, but here goes again.

When you are biking or scootering on the sidewalk or on a bike path, you MUST slow down extremely, or walk your bike, instead of coming quickly off the sidewalk or bikepath into oncoming traffic. This is because although drivers may be looking for pedestrians, a bike is moving to fast for them to anticipate and stop in time. Apparently there's some disagreement of fact here, but I saw the child going faster than walking pace. Also because she's small, she's even less visible.

Secondly, if you're crossing a lot of traffic, you can't just assume that the cars are going to stop - you have to be watching to make sure they are, be able to see all the cars, and be ready to stop if they don't stop. Most 4 year olds can't do this; thus, they should not cross alone.

https://www.bicycleaccidentprevention.com/

The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That family should have waited for all the cars on that road to stop.
Yes, the driver in the SUV was clearly wrong, but we live in an imperfect world and all the legal right in the world won't make up for your kid dying in an accident.
Also, I heard a car honking, so thankfully, at least one stopped driver was able to intervene and alert the moving SUV to slow down.

This 1000%. The mom should have NEVER let her small child bike across unaccompanied on that busy road. Or the dad should have waited and walked altogether with his kids. I don't fault the SUV. I understand that people will disagree but I do not think it's the SUV responsibility to necessarily slow down if the car to the left is stopped. That car could be making a left or asleep at the wheel. It is, however, the responsibility of the parents to make sure the kids are safe at a crossing that does not have a stop light or very visible signage that someone is crossing.

Are you kidding me? It was ILLEGAL for that SUV to pass the car stopped at the crosswalk. In Maryland, that is a driving offense. It's also Illegal for them to go into the crosswalk while it's occupied. There's probably enough violations in that video alone for the drive of the SUV to lose their license.

People are talking about keeping children safe while you are asking Maryland to enforce traffic laws. Are you insane?

Not the PP you are responding to, but I agree and am quite sane. Maybe you need to wrap your kids in armor and transport them in SUVs to keep them safe, but if safety requires this kind of thing, we should spend more time making streets safe than shaming parents. Just as we should spend time fighting rape culture, not blame women for going to parties, etc.

But this being DCUM, parenting shaming is going to appeal to many people rather than advocating social change

OMG. did you just compare basic safe biking principals to rape culture? Seriously? What's wrong with you?

WALK YOUR KID ACROSS BUSY INTERSECTIONS. Yes, the SUV was wrong; but the parents were also wrong.

I compared the way we talk about things. Do we lecture the victim about not taking adequate precautions, or try to change the society that forces precautions that should not be necessary.

]

I'm not lecturing the victim - I am using this opportunity to make sure people are educated about safe biking. Is it also "forcing precautions" to teach teens the basics of defensive driving, and to teach kids to look both ways before crossing the street? Sheesh.

You are absolutely lecturing the victim - you are saying the parents were at fault. And on top of that, complaining that other people are talking about enforcing the law against unsafe drivers. It is very much like focusing on "What was she wearing, why did she have drinks at a frat?".

And again, I don't see what they did that was unsafe. I can't see how walking dismounted would be safer than riding at a walking pace, or how riding with the dad would make the child safer in this instance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That family should have waited for all the cars on that road to stop.
Yes, the driver in the SUV was clearly wrong, but we live in an imperfect world and all the legal right in the world won't make up for your kid dying in an accident.
Also, I heard a car honking, so thankfully, at least one stopped driver was able to intervene and alert the moving SUV to slow down.

This 1000%. The mom should have NEVER let her small child bike across unaccompanied on that busy road. Or the dad should have waited and walked altogether with his kids. I don't fault the SUV. I understand that people will disagree but I do not think it's the SUV responsibility to necessarily slow down if the car to the left is stopped. That car could be making a left or asleep at the wheel. It is, however, the responsibility of the parents to make sure the kids are safe at a crossing that does not have a stop light or very visible signage that someone is crossing.

Are you kidding me? It was ILLEGAL for that SUV to pass the car stopped at the crosswalk. In Maryland, that is a driving offense. It's also Illegal for them to go into the crosswalk while it's occupied. There's probably enough violations in that video alone for the drive of the SUV to lose their license.

People are talking about keeping children safe while you are asking Maryland to enforce traffic laws. Are you insane?

Not the PP you are responding to, but I agree and am quite sane. Maybe you need to wrap your kids in armor and transport them in SUVs to keep them safe, but if safety requires this kind of thing, we should spend more time making streets safe than shaming parents. Just as we should spend time fighting rape culture, not blame women for going to parties, etc.

But this being DCUM, parenting shaming is going to appeal to many people rather than advocating social change

OMG. did you just compare basic safe biking principals to rape culture? Seriously? What's wrong with you?

WALK YOUR KID ACROSS BUSY INTERSECTIONS. Yes, the SUV was wrong; but the parents were also wrong.

I compared the way we talk about things. Do we lecture the victim about not taking adequate precautions, or try to change the society that forces precautions that should not be necessary.

]

I'm not lecturing the victim - I am using this opportunity to make sure people are educated about safe biking. Is it also "forcing precautions" to teach teens the basics of defensive driving, and to teach kids to look both ways before crossing the street? Sheesh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is a yellow sign a few feet back indicating the presence of pedestrians. This is a 30MPH road. A vigilant driver, going 30MPH, should have been able to see the family and stop - and the stopped car in the left lane should have added to their caution, even if there was a chance it was waiting to turn.

But we want the right to drive at 40MPH, without being vigilant, on roads like that, so we blame the people crossing in the crosswalk instead.

Then when people cross OUTSIDE crosswalks, we say "safety problems are caused by jaywalkers" and wonder why people cross where there is no crosswalk.

Well, duh! If people don't want to get hit crossing the road, then they shouldn't cross the road! They should get into a car and drive, like normal people!

Or so I infer, from some of the comments.

\

No, they should follow the very basic principals of safe biking, which they could easily learn if they bothered to.

I don't see what principal they failed to follow. They crossed in a crosswalk, they rode at a moderate speed, they appear to have looked appropriately for cross traffic, and they were using equipment colored to be quite visible.

Again, a pedestrian walking here would have been just as vulnerable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That family should have waited for all the cars on that road to stop.
Yes, the driver in the SUV was clearly wrong, but we live in an imperfect world and all the legal right in the world won't make up for your kid dying in an accident.
Also, I heard a car honking, so thankfully, at least one stopped driver was able to intervene and alert the moving SUV to slow down.

This 1000%. The mom should have NEVER let her small child bike across unaccompanied on that busy road. Or the dad should have waited and walked altogether with his kids. I don't fault the SUV. I understand that people will disagree but I do not think it's the SUV responsibility to necessarily slow down if the car to the left is stopped. That car could be making a left or asleep at the wheel. It is, however, the responsibility of the parents to make sure the kids are safe at a crossing that does not have a stop light or very visible signage that someone is crossing.

Are you kidding me? It was ILLEGAL for that SUV to pass the car stopped at the crosswalk. In Maryland, that is a driving offense. It's also Illegal for them to go into the crosswalk while it's occupied. There's probably enough violations in that video alone for the drive of the SUV to lose their license.

People are talking about keeping children safe while you are asking Maryland to enforce traffic laws. Are you insane?

Not the PP you are responding to, but I agree and am quite sane. Maybe you need to wrap your kids in armor and transport them in SUVs to keep them safe, but if safety requires this kind of thing, we should spend more time making streets safe than shaming parents. Just as we should spend time fighting rape culture, not blame women for going to parties, etc.

But this being DCUM, parenting shaming is going to appeal to many people rather than advocating social change

OMG. did you just compare basic safe biking principals to rape culture? Seriously? What's wrong with you?

WALK YOUR KID ACROSS BUSY INTERSECTIONS. Yes, the SUV was wrong; but the parents were also wrong.

I compared the way we talk about things. Do we lecture the victim about not taking adequate precautions, or try to change the society that forces precautions that should not be necessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, you never let a small child cross a street alone, the taller parent should have dismounted and walked the child across. Yes, the car seems reckless too but they couldn't see the little kid behind the vehicle in the turning lane. So lucky!

But if the child got hit, would the car be at fault? I don’t see why it actually would

Um, Yes. Who else would be?

My guess is that with the harshness of contributory negligence, the parents would likely be at fault legally as well. And as matter of general parenting responsibilities (not legal responsibilities), absolutely the parents share the fault.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, you never let a small child cross a street alone, the taller parent should have dismounted and walked the child across. Yes, the car seems reckless too but they couldn't see the little kid behind the vehicle in the turning lane. So lucky!

But if the child got hit, would the car be at fault? I don’t see why it actually would

Um, Yes. Who else would be?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is a yellow sign a few feet back indicating the presence of pedestrians. This is a 30MPH road. A vigilant driver, going 30MPH, should have been able to see the family and stop - and the stopped car in the left lane should have added to their caution, even if there was a chance it was waiting to turn.

But we want the right to drive at 40MPH, without being vigilant, on roads like that, so we blame the people crossing in the crosswalk instead.

Then when people cross OUTSIDE crosswalks, we say "safety problems are caused by jaywalkers" and wonder why people cross where there is no crosswalk.

Well, duh! If people don't want to get hit crossing the road, then they shouldn't cross the road! They should get into a car and drive, like normal people!

Or so I infer, from some of the comments.

\

No, they should follow the very basic principals of safe biking, which they could easily learn if they bothered to.