Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 22:10     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
some do and it doesn’t mean they are LD


We're not talking about the rare outliner We are talking about the widespread practice
for ordinary learners. It is cheating.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 20:23     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The irony is that the only reason I care about your kids is that I believe if your child is so slow that they need a full year to catch up, they should be seen by a professional. Redshirting parents buckle against that.



They are a few year older then just a few. Anti people always say thing, but really it’s putting these kids at a level playing field, not giving them them this great advantage. Not all kids need it, but some do and it doesn’t mean they are LD. Get off your high horse.



A level playing field? Why? School isn’t a competition right? Who cares what the field looks like - your child and their needs are all that matters I thought? Also- dropping them onto a “field” of kids a year younger because you could afford a year more of school or daycare certainly doesn’t level the field for the kids whosec parents couldn’t afford that.


It’s not actually a level playing field you want, it’s one that gets your kid off the bench.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 20:16     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
I think consistency is lacking here. But, I hate to be negative about schools here, many are good schools. I think classical education, same teachers for many years, being with same kids during elementary school, no changing groups. And curriculum is pretty set, whole country expects you to know this and that by certain age... By 5th grade, we had to know exact dates of WWI and WWII, and classes are 45 minutes. There was no choosing which subject to study in high school, it was all set. But, I wanted to add that after 8th grade there was a choice/necessity to go to grammar/comprehensive high school or vocational high school, entry into high school was based on grades and entry exam. In one city I could choose to apply to several high schools not based on zone I lived in but based on my preference, what my plans for college were and my academics so far. BTW, I am not Italian, but our school systems are very much alike.


Years ago, public schools here were like that. The change? Vocational ed became a no-no. Many kids dropped out in eighth grade. Etc.
Now, everyone is expected to prep for college. There are two ways to close a gap. From the top or from the bottom.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 19:40     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One thing I find fascinating about this discussion is the contrast to another DCUM topic I've encountered from time to time which hold's Finland's educational system up as a model BECAUSE they delay academic instruction for all children.


I don't think they delay academic instruction, I think their age for starting school is 7. It is the same in the country I am from. I started first grade at 6 and turned 7 in December. It is regular practice in many countries. I see no value in teaching 2, 3 year old to read, math, etc.. Nothing but crazy parents imo. Not only did I not miss anything, I learned to read in less than 3 months, and was an excellent student throughout my education without knowing a letter before starting school. We read Kant, Descartes in high school, had logic and philosophy, mandatory Latin and two other languages for over 10 years, and read books that kids would consider insane here(over 2000 pages classics)... just FYI


I am in awe of the system you describe. I wish we could introduce even a fraction of that rigor into our curriculum. Unfortunately, I think the differences extend far beyond starting ages. Americans would need to overhaul their basic educational philosophy before we could come anywhere close.

I'm curious about your thoughts on education in America. Do you have any observations about American schools you'd be willing to share?


I think consistency is lacking here. But, I hate to be negative about schools here, many are good schools. I think classical education, same teachers for many years, being with same kids during elementary school, no changing groups. And curriculum is pretty set, whole country expects you to know this and that by certain age... By 5th grade, we had to know exact dates of WWI and WWII, and classes are 45 minutes. There was no choosing which subject to study in high school, it was all set. But, I wanted to add that after 8th grade there was a choice/necessity to go to grammar/comprehensive high school or vocational high school, entry into high school was based on grades and entry exam. In one city I could choose to apply to several high schools not based on zone I lived in but based on my preference, what my plans for college were and my academics so far. BTW, I am not Italian, but our school systems are very much alike.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 19:21     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
I'm sure you're talking honestly about a subset of redshirters. However, I know others who redshirted so that their children would "be a leader, not a follower". That is purely for their own child's advantage and does impact other children in the classroom, including yours.



FWIW, there are lots of other reasons to redshirt. And, being the oldest does not necessarily equate to being a leader. Is that what the anti-redshirters are afraid of--that their "on time" child won't be a leader? Quit worrying.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 13:34     Subject: Do you consider redshirting cheating?
What advantage?
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 13:26     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One thing I find fascinating about this discussion is the contrast to another DCUM topic I've encountered from time to time which hold's Finland's educational system up as a model BECAUSE they delay academic instruction for all children.


I don't think they delay academic instruction, I think their age for starting school is 7. It is the same in the country I am from. I started first grade at 6 and turned 7 in December. It is regular practice in many countries. I see no value in teaching 2, 3 year old to read, math, etc.. Nothing but crazy parents imo. Not only did I not miss anything, I learned to read in less than 3 months, and was an excellent student throughout my education without knowing a letter before starting school. We read Kant, Descartes in high school, had logic and philosophy, mandatory Latin and two other languages for over 10 years, and read books that kids would consider insane here(over 2000 pages classics)... just FYI

Are you Italian? We had a very similar school system, but started school at 6
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 12:34     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The irony is that the only reason I care about your kids is that I believe if your child is so slow that they need a full year to catch up, they should be seen by a professional. Redshirting parents buckle against that.



They are a few year older then just a few. Anti people always say thing, but really it’s putting these kids at a level playing field, not giving them them this great advantage. Not all kids need it, but some do and it doesn’t mean they are LD. Get off your high horse.


I'm sure you're talking honestly about a subset of redshirters. However, I know others who redshirted so that their children would "be a leader, not a follower". That is purely for their own child's advantage and does impact other children in the classroom, including yours.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 12:27     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:The irony is that the only reason I care about your kids is that I believe if your child is so slow that they need a full year to catch up, they should be seen by a professional. Redshirting parents buckle against that.



They are a few year older then just a few. Anti people always say thing, but really it’s putting these kids at a level playing field, not giving them them this great advantage. Not all kids need it, but some do and it doesn’t mean they are LD. Get off your high horse.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 11:20     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The irony is that the only reason I care about your kids is that I believe if your child is so slow that they need a full year to catch up, they should be seen by a professional. Redshirting parents buckle against that.


Mun dd is not slow. She is shy and immature and I think she will do better socially with a younger cohort (end of August birthday). You people keep missing the point and insulting our “slow” kids



Shy is now something we attempt to redshirt out? If she’s still shy do you hold her back again?


Yeah, I was very shy until high school.

Do people forget their childhood? Or do they want to live it again through their children?


I’m 40 and still short. What grade should I be in?


Whichever one that teaches some logical skills.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 11:13     Subject: Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Logic is not a core competency of the anti-redshirt contingent.



Amazing then that we seem capable of raising kids who can move forward at a normal pace. And amazing to me that people who are SO terrified to have their child called names based upon their mental abilities are so willing to insult the mental capacity of others. Glass houses, and all.


Shrug. I'm going with the evidence at hand here written down by anti-redshirt posters on DCUM, not reaching beyond the words on the page into the imaginary. The anti-redshirt posts are logic-free. If that fact bothers you, look at the posts and figure out why.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 10:55     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One thing I find fascinating about this discussion is the contrast to another DCUM topic I've encountered from time to time which hold's Finland's educational system up as a model BECAUSE they delay academic instruction for all children.


I don't think they delay academic instruction, I think their age for starting school is 7. It is the same in the country I am from. I started first grade at 6 and turned 7 in December. It is regular practice in many countries. I see no value in teaching 2, 3 year old to read, math, etc.. Nothing but crazy parents imo. Not only did I not miss anything, I learned to read in less than 3 months, and was an excellent student throughout my education without knowing a letter before starting school. We read Kant, Descartes in high school, had logic and philosophy, mandatory Latin and two other languages for over 10 years, and read books that kids would consider insane here(over 2000 pages classics)... just FYI


I am in awe of the system you describe. I wish we could introduce even a fraction of that rigor into our curriculum. Unfortunately, I think the differences extend far beyond starting ages. Americans would need to overhaul their basic educational philosophy before we could come anywhere close.

I'm curious about your thoughts on education in America. Do you have any observations about American schools you'd be willing to share?
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 10:32     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Anonymous wrote:One thing I find fascinating about this discussion is the contrast to another DCUM topic I've encountered from time to time which hold's Finland's educational system up as a model BECAUSE they delay academic instruction for all children.


I don't think they delay academic instruction, I think their age for starting school is 7. It is the same in the country I am from. I started first grade at 6 and turned 7 in December. It is regular practice in many countries. I see no value in teaching 2, 3 year old to read, math, etc.. Nothing but crazy parents imo. Not only did I not miss anything, I learned to read in less than 3 months, and was an excellent student throughout my education without knowing a letter before starting school. We read Kant, Descartes in high school, had logic and philosophy, mandatory Latin and two other languages for over 10 years, and read books that kids would consider insane here(over 2000 pages classics)... just FYI
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 10:26     Subject: Re:Do you consider redshirting cheating?
One thing I find fascinating about this discussion is the contrast to another DCUM topic I've encountered from time to time which hold's Finland's educational system up as a model BECAUSE they delay academic instruction for all children.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2018 10:24     Subject: Do you consider redshirting cheating?
Redshirting for sports is cheating, redshirting because kid has academic difficulties is fine. Sports red shirting usually happens in 8th grade. 100% cheating in that case.