ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

Your right. But if you read the link you will find it could be sexual coercion.

I agree that's possible, but it wasn't PP's example. She said it was sex by fraud because if she'd known he was the type of person who cheats, she would not have slept with him. That's different than coercion. It retroactively converts even freely-given consent to rape any time someone comes to realize their relationship partner is a loser.

Wow, SMH. Since I've been accused as being "rough," I'll try to temper my comments for the more delicate readers. I'm glad for the education and for knowing their are people out there who really think this way. May I be so lucky to spot them before they spot me so I know to steer clear. By these definitions of rape, I figure about 99% of us can say they were the victim of rape by the time we reach 40, if not a lot sooner.

Consensual sex acts retroactively convertible to rape if either party discovers the other wasn't honest about his/her intentions, feelings, used coercion, or was possibly cheating? Damn, I have definitely been raped in the past. I may be being raped on a regular basis right now! By definition, I won't know until later, right?

so you are cool with a guy dressing as a girl, picking you up and giving you a BJ... and then finding out later it was not a girl?

Wow, you are all over the place. You should start a new discussion thread with that question. Probably get a few guys t reply who would be cool with it and go back for more.

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

Your right. But if you read the link you will find it could be sexual coercion.

I agree that's possible, but it wasn't PP's example. She said it was sex by fraud because if she'd known he was the type of person who cheats, she would not have slept with him. That's different than coercion. It retroactively converts even freely-given consent to rape any time someone comes to realize their relationship partner is a loser.

Wow, SMH. Since I've been accused as being "rough," I'll try to temper my comments for the more delicate readers. I'm glad for the education and for knowing their are people out there who really think this way. May I be so lucky to spot them before they spot me so I know to steer clear. By these definitions of rape, I figure about 99% of us can say they were the victim of rape by the time we reach 40, if not a lot sooner.

Consensual sex acts retroactively convertible to rape if either party discovers the other wasn't honest about his/her intentions, feelings, used coercion, or was possibly cheating? Damn, I have definitely been raped in the past. I may be being raped on a regular basis right now! By definition, I won't know until later, right?

so you are cool with a guy dressing as a girl, picking you up and giving you a BJ... and then finding out later it was not a girl?

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

You seem pretty invested in labeling it "not rape." So, fine, if a man is coercing, badgering, and Not Raping (tm) his wife in a way that causes her to "consent" (wink, wink) and inflicts sexual trauma, are we cool with that?

PP. here.

It is disappointing how feminists speak of empowerment, and equality, even as they readily abdicate their own agency in making decisions to men.

Not being content with misappropriating the word "rape," you've now moved to second best with "coercing." I guess this is when he says that you hurt his feelings because you won't sleep with him? Is it "rapey" when he gives you the silent treatment? Are you not in control of your own body? You so badly want men to be responsible for what is ultimately your decision that you will use any inflammatory and loaded language as a weapon to so long as it suits your agenda.

Well, this feminist agrees with you. But I was born in the 60s, so perhaps a different kind of feminist than the PP above.

The crux of this is when the request for sex is "badgering." If it's "badgering," then it's coercive. If you ask for sex once or state your desire to have sex once, that's not coercive. It's an expression of desire. If the other person shares the desire, great! If the person doesn't share the desire, no big deal. Ask a second time, a little later, you're still in pretty much the same territory. Do it enough times that it constitutes badgering, and you are no longer attempting to communicate your desire or ask for information about the other person's desire. Your repeated requests are an attempt to pressure the person into having sex even though you know that the person has no desire to do so. You are now a shitty person.

Shitty, yes. Pathetic even, begging for sex. Call him a whiny bitch if you like. But if all his begging, or badgering if you like that term, leads her to giving in just to shut him up, it's still not rape.

It is interesting. As a guy I have had women do the same to me and women who I am not in a relationship with let a lone married. Does this definition apply to women? Remember our society expects a man to be rejected by a woman for sex. With women it is different. If she decides she wants sex with a man, the man has no say in the matter. No man would ever not want to have sex with any women...right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

Your right. But if you read the link you will find it could be sexual coercion.

I agree that's possible, but it wasn't PP's example. She said it was sex by fraud because if she'd known he was the type of person who cheats, she would not have slept with him. That's different than coercion. It retroactively converts even freely-given consent to rape any time someone comes to realize their relationship partner is a loser.

Wow, SMH. Since I've been accused as being "rough," I'll try to temper my comments for the more delicate readers. I'm glad for the education and for knowing their are people out there who really think this way. May I be so lucky to spot them before they spot me so I know to steer clear. By these definitions of rape, I figure about 99% of us can say they were the victim of rape by the time we reach 40, if not a lot sooner.

Consensual sex acts retroactively convertible to rape if either party discovers the other wasn't honest about his/her intentions, feelings, used coercion, or was possibly cheating? Damn, I have definitely been raped in the past. I may be being raped on a regular basis right now! By definition, I won't know until later, right?

so you are cool with a guy dressing as a girl, picking you up and giving you a BJ... and then finding out later it was not a girl?

Bless your heart. You're like Rose, from the Golden Girls.

What you have described is clearly not rape. Whether I am "cool with it" is not the definition of rape.

Anonymous wrote:I went years with having sex with DW only a couple times a year. Tried everything I could, help around the house more, try to be extra nice - you're doing this because you want sex. Try rubbing her shoulders and back then lay next to her she would get up set if I happened to get an erection. Mentioned once that I masturbated, she told me I was disgusting.

Tried numerous times to discuss it with her, always led to her getting upset. Told me she only did oral and have sex all the time before marriage because she wanted me to like her. It wasn't because people change, she acted a certain way lying about who she was.

When she finally admitted that the way she was when we met, and who I thought I was marring was a lie, I told her I was done and leaving the next day. She said she couldn't believe I was leaving after all these years over no sex. I told her that when she meets a new guy and is doing all those things to impress him like she did to me, to remember that if she did that to me our marriage wouldn't have been over.

The next day came, I loved her but was going to stick with it this time, it was ruining our marriage. We didn't even share the same bedroom. She came to me and said she would change. We are working on making things better

Anonymous wrote:

ZachF wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your husband is badgering you for sex, and you don't really feel like, but you agree, that's consent. That's 100% not rape. Stop using rape to describe not rape.

Your right. But if you read the link you will find it could be sexual coercion.

I agree that's possible, but it wasn't PP's example. She said it was sex by fraud because if she'd known he was the type of person who cheats, she would not have slept with him. That's different than coercion. It retroactively converts even freely-given consent to rape any time someone comes to realize their relationship partner is a loser.

Wow, SMH. Since I've been accused as being "rough," I'll try to temper my comments for the more delicate readers. I'm glad for the education and for knowing their are people out there who really think this way. May I be so lucky to spot them before they spot me so I know to steer clear. By these definitions of rape, I figure about 99% of us can say they were the victim of rape by the time we reach 40, if not a lot sooner.

Consensual sex acts retroactively convertible to rape if either party discovers the other wasn't honest about his/her intentions, feelings, used coercion, or was possibly cheating? Damn, I have definitely been raped in the past. I may be being raped on a regular basis right now! By definition, I won't know until later, right?

so you are cool with a guy dressing as a girl, picking you up and giving you a BJ... and then finding out later it was not a girl?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's an issue of feeling entitled to sex, but marriage is an agreement to not have sex with other people (usually -- there are open marriages). So if you are asking someone to agree to *only* have sex with you, then it's kind of cruel to not ever have sex with your spouse.

I'm a woman. And I don't think that anyone thinks a husband (or a wife, for that matter) is entitled to sex whenever they want it. But I do think that sex is part of marriage. And if you are going to deny someone sex (barring a medical reason or some recent tragedy/trauma), you have no right to expect them not to seek it elsewhere.

+1

OP you are nuts. Like someone else said, intimacy and sex are what differentiate marriage from "just friends." If you don't want to have sex with someone, or you plan to stop after marriage, or withhold it because you're mad about things, don't be upset when your spouse leaves or cheats on you.

Same goes for men who don't provide well for the family, or do the house hold chores that are expected. If they don't do these things they shouldn't be surprised if spouse leaves or cheats.

Anonymous wrote:Op,

You are correct, but people who are entitled are not going to admit the are entitled.

There was a whole thread on men claiming they can't function at work (aka, the fog) if they go 5 day, 7 days, 10 days without sex.

It is pathetic.

Many say they will chest if they don't "get it enough" or if they are getting it "the sex lacks passion".

Pain and simple it is emotional anise to tell a spouse put out or I will cheat and the cheating will be your fault because you suck in bed or don't give it up enough... Or my favorite, you put the kids first and I feel devalued.

Cheaters/entitled to sex posters are going to roast you, call you cold, dumb, too young to understand. But you are correct.

It is so much easier to lower a libido than to increase one, but men would never agree, they just blame their wives as if they purposely are denying sex"

So many people go without sex for various reasons... Deployed, illness, etc... It's not a basic need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's an issue of feeling entitled to sex, but marriage is an agreement to not have sex with other people (usually -- there are open marriages). So if you are asking someone to agree to *only* have sex with you, then it's kind of cruel to not ever have sex with your spouse.

I'm a woman. And I don't think that anyone thinks a husband (or a wife, for that matter) is entitled to sex whenever they want it. But I do think that sex is part of marriage. And if you are going to deny someone sex (barring a medical reason or some recent tragedy/trauma), you have no right to expect them not to seek it elsewhere.

+1

OP you are nuts. Like someone else said, intimacy and sex are what differentiate marriage from "just friends." If you don't want to have sex with someone, or you plan to stop after marriage, or withhold it because you're mad about things, don't be upset when your spouse leaves or cheats on you.

Anonymous wrote:
After divorce you start remembering the red flags you ignored. I'm sure if she's dating she'll easily spot dysfunction when she sees it so not to end up with that kind of person again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You shouldn't have to say no. When you turn away, are busy doing stuff that should be enough of a hint in a marriage. Sex needs to be something both want to do, not one taking advantage of the other. It's like anything else, lack of respect starts chipping away at the foundation. It's one small part of a marriage, I can think of many other aspects that are more important than mine or my spouses sexual needs. Our kids, good communication, finances, etc.

So many marriages break up over sex that it is manifestly stupid to dismiss it as a "small part of a marriage".

Sure would hate to be married to a bitch like you.

You pretty much outed yourself on why you have the relationship problems you do.

Anonymous wrote:As a young woman, I don't get it. Like did you get married solely thinking you would get laid regularly? Cause that just seems so... dumb. Messed up. Awful.

Then they put pressure on their wives, who dont feel like having sex, and try to coerce or pressure them into it. Why? Because the dude wants to have sex.

I see so much outrage about Brock Turner and no one seems to be talking about this different aspect of rape culture which is that husbands are entitled to their wives bodies? When they want it?

And it's so bizarre to me. Like.... how is this a thing? In today's modern world?

Women are still expected to lie back and think of England? For reals?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you want to call someone "shitty," fine. But loaded terms like "rape" and "rapey" should not be used so recklessly.

It may be inappropriate, but I wouldn't call it "reckless." The coercion necessary to turn a demand for sex into rape is not a bright line but is a spectrum. Put a knife to her throat = rape. Threaten to cut someone else's throat = rape. Threaten to throw her out in the street with no clothes or money = probably rape. Threaten to fire her = closer to the line but still damaging and coercive. Threatening to keep requesting sex until she gives in is probably on the non-rape side of the line, but it's still coercive and damaging. And you can see that rape line from there. So, I don't think using a term like "rapey" is reckless.

No. If she doesn't want to have sex, nothing is preventing her from not having it. So don't.

Again, this narrative paints the woman as a delicate thing who can't be expected to stand up for herself in the face of unending "requests." You don't want to listen to the requests anymore? Stand up on your own two feet and walk out the door.

I am not a delicate thing. I fended off repeated unwanted advances. I refused to put my head in the sand and actively monitored my DH to uncover his lies. I did this despite the severe negative career and financial impact. And why the hell should *I* walk out? I didn't do anything wrong. When I had adequate, indisputable evidence, I told my husband the relationship was over and that *he* would have to leave. Then I had to fend off his repeated advances over the next two years of co-parenting.

My question is, what kind of culture normalizes this -- that it's OK for a guy to lie to get sex and it's OK for a guy to repeatedly harass a woman for sex despite repeatedly being told no. IMO, it's rape culture. No one would ever tolerate this behavior from a stranger at a frat party, why should I tolerate it from someone who was my husband? Why do you think it's OK for a guy to repeatedly behave like this and put the responsibility on me to say no a hundred times a hundred different ways? No means no. I should only have to say it once.

That's a guy with a severe problem. I'd have little to do with him, do child exchanges in a neutral place and so fourth. Stop putting yourself in that situation, take someone to do the child exchanges with the ass hole.

You shouldn't have to say no. When you turn away, are busy doing stuff that should be enough of a hint in a marriage. Sex needs to be something both want to do, not one taking advantage of the other. It's like anything else, lack of respect starts chipping away at the foundation. It's one small part of a marriage, I can think of many other aspects that are more important than mine or my spouses sexual needs. Our kids, good communication, finances, etc.

You ex was a total dick, be thankful you got out of there.