Anonymous
04/25/2015 10:53
Subject: Re:Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it is perfectly understandable why many black families think Banneker is a great opportunity for their kids, and choose it. I think it is perfectly understandable why most white families do not. I do not think either should be shamed for their perfectly reasonable, non-racist, choices.
What am I missing here?
Why is it perfectly understandable that NO white families consider Banneker even a possibility? I don't find it understandable myself, nor to I find it "non-racist." I find it, frankly, racist.
And to expand on this: It's very different from an HBCU, which have an actual historical mission to educate black students only. There, I can understand why white families would consider HBCUs automatic no-gos. Banneker is a selective high school with a good college prep record with almost 100% proficiency rates (which many white families claim to want more of in DC public schools) yet ... no white families.
I am the PP who first made the analogy to Howard and HBCU above. I see your point of view, but I think maybe you are not seeing it from the other point of view. Have you read the threads on DC Prep, KIPP? They get good results, their student body is almost all black, they have a reputation for a certain style of education, long hours, strict boot camp atmosphere. This appeals to some black and maybe latino parents. But so far in DC it does not appeal to white parents who tend to rave about Reggio, Waldorf, "green" focus, "play-based", basically the exact opposite of boot camp atmospheres.
Banneker, at least to outsiders, and all white people are outsiders to Banneker, has a similar reputation. A very heavy homework load, few extra curricular options or athletic programs. It seems designed to serve black parents who want to cut out the distractions for black youth and focus on academics. It also seems to have very few boys. Whereas white parents, and perhaps the private school black PP above and others, might prefer a somewhat more relaxed and varied school experience.
So I realize that Banneker is not explicitly designed to serve black people like Howard is, but I think people can be forgiven for thinking that in practice Banneker is set up to appeal to certain preferences and not others.
By the way, I don't have first hand experience but I don't think that HBCUs refuse admission to white students (in your post: "educate black students only," my italics). Wouldn't that be illegal? So you might be over-stating that part of your argument. It's more that white people know that HBCUs are not for them, so they don't apply, and a similar thing seems to be happening with Banneker.
Anonymous
04/25/2015 10:35
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp quoted, but regarding the bolded, What is artificial about the environment at Banneker? That's such an odd thing to say. I'm a current Banneker parent, btw.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the white PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that an all-black high school could be intellectually rigorous and successful at preparing students for top colleges.
I think the black PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that Banneker is neither as intellectually rigorous nor as successful at preparing students for top colleges as other available options, especially for whites, Asians, Latinos and high SES blacks.
So be it.
Oh come on. Banneker is clearly doing something very right, given its college placement and AP results. Maybe it is not the same as TJ but that is not the question. The question is why don't any white parents, at all, even consider this very good school as compared to other good DC options like Walls and Wilson?
I don't understand the comparison to TJ. According to the latest stats, white people are shunning TJ, and the Asian population is increasingly dominant. So based on this thread, most of the whites who responded said that the school was not rigorous enough; the school was no TJ; and, the school reported too low SAT scores. Hmm, if that is truly the reason, why are whites also declining in enrollment at TJ?
Go find the SAT scores for TJ, compare them to Wilson and to Banneker, and you will see the answer.
No, that's not the answer to the question. White people are using SAT scores for their reasons to not send their children to Banneker. What is the reason for white people not sending their children to TJ, a largely Asian populated magnet school with great SAT scores?
You are a bit slow today, aren't you?
SAT scores at TJ are super high, showing it is a very competitive, race-blind, school. Many white students do try to get in; few do, because there's better qualified (often Asian) students.
SAT scores at Wilson are relatively high for a non-selective and super diverse school. Disclosure: my kids (Latino) will probably end up there.
SAT scores at Banneker at surprisingly low for a selective school. Why would whites (or other with better alternatives) send their kids there, unless for some reason they are looking for an all-black immersion experience?
Yes, slow. To be clear. Banneker is not all black. They have a high Latino population. They also have Asian students. Again, if a great college is your end game, Banneker is it. If you are caught up into SAT scores - I don't know, you have so much attitude - why in God's name would you send them to Wilson. Wilson is nothing to write home about. I am inbounds to Wilson and my kid is afraid to go there. And I'm black.
I won't tell you what to do with your kid, so please don't tell me what to do your mine, especially when you obviously are quite ill-informed. There are many more Latino (and Asian) at Wilson than at Banneker, and going to great colleges, AND learning how to live in the big world out there, instead of self-segregating themselves in a small and very artificial environment.
It is great that DCPS offers different choices, as we live in a very diverse city. I am in this thread because the title question intrigued me, and I wanted to learn more about the school. What I have discovered is multiple reasons why it makes no sense for my kids to even consider Banneker. I wish the school well.
I'm not any of these PPs, and I don't necessarily agree with PP you quoted in bold.
However, I think what PP is saying here is that an all-black environment, and frankly, an all-black-led and all-black-all-high-achieving environment, is not representative of broader society. Following high school graduation, or at the latest, following graduation from a historically black college, Banneker grads will need to navigate a world in which whites are the majority and blacks occupy few positions of power or influence. Similarly, graduates from an all girl school will encounter a male-dominated work environment in most fields. I think this was the point, that a school like Wilson is a more realistic introduction to the world out there. Again, I don't necessarily agree that such an "artificially controlled" environment is such a bad thing during formative years, but this was PP's point.
WTH. I went to a women's college so OMG, I can't navigate the real world? Dumb as hell. Going to a women's college empowered me in ways that you can't imagine. Funny how so many successful women attended women's colleges. So according to you, no women's colleges either. They are not the "real" world.
Please re-read what I wrote in bold above....
Anonymous
04/25/2015 10:31
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The info in this article may have something to do with it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/ap-offerings-vary-widely-in-dc-high-schools/2015/04/20/06348584-e775-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html
Banneker is an International Baccalaureate school. That's likely why they don't have as many AP offerings.
The challenge índex by the Washington Post includes both the IB and the AP.
How does Banneker rank, compared to other local high schools?
Number 33.
No one can take this index seriously, you have students who don't speak English in AP at CHEC, as all students are required to be in AP English regardless. They need ESL specific classes not AP their first year, sure exposure is good, but just placeing students in classes and letting them fail doesn't help anyone. Until you tell us the score of those that take AP classes, then this is worthless. I've even seen students who fail English be placed in advanced English classes, and at some DCPS schools anyone can take AP, there is no requirement or recommendation by a teacher needed.
Anonymous
04/25/2015 09:23
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp quoted, but regarding the bolded, What is artificial about the environment at Banneker? That's such an odd thing to say. I'm a current Banneker parent, btw.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the white PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that an all-black high school could be intellectually rigorous and successful at preparing students for top colleges.
I think the black PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that Banneker is neither as intellectually rigorous nor as successful at preparing students for top colleges as other available options, especially for whites, Asians, Latinos and high SES blacks.
So be it.
Oh come on. Banneker is clearly doing something very right, given its college placement and AP results. Maybe it is not the same as TJ but that is not the question. The question is why don't any white parents, at all, even consider this very good school as compared to other good DC options like Walls and Wilson?
I don't understand the comparison to TJ. According to the latest stats, white people are shunning TJ, and the Asian population is increasingly dominant. So based on this thread, most of the whites who responded said that the school was not rigorous enough; the school was no TJ; and, the school reported too low SAT scores. Hmm, if that is truly the reason, why are whites also declining in enrollment at TJ?
Go find the SAT scores for TJ, compare them to Wilson and to Banneker, and you will see the answer.
No, that's not the answer to the question. White people are using SAT scores for their reasons to not send their children to Banneker. What is the reason for white people not sending their children to TJ, a largely Asian populated magnet school with great SAT scores?
You are a bit slow today, aren't you?
SAT scores at TJ are super high, showing it is a very competitive, race-blind, school. Many white students do try to get in; few do, because there's better qualified (often Asian) students.
SAT scores at Wilson are relatively high for a non-selective and super diverse school. Disclosure: my kids (Latino) will probably end up there.
SAT scores at Banneker at surprisingly low for a selective school. Why would whites (or other with better alternatives) send their kids there, unless for some reason they are looking for an all-black immersion experience?
Yes, slow. To be clear. Banneker is not all black. They have a high Latino population. They also have Asian students. Again, if a great college is your end game, Banneker is it. If you are caught up into SAT scores - I don't know, you have so much attitude - why in God's name would you send them to Wilson. Wilson is nothing to write home about. I am inbounds to Wilson and my kid is afraid to go there. And I'm black.
I won't tell you what to do with your kid, so please don't tell me what to do your mine, especially when you obviously are quite ill-informed. There are many more Latino (and Asian) at Wilson than at Banneker, and going to great colleges, AND learning how to live in the big world out there, instead of self-segregating themselves in a small and [b]very artificial environment. [/b]
It is great that DCPS offers different choices, as we live in a very diverse city. I am in this thread because the title question intrigued me, and I wanted to learn more about the school. What I have discovered is multiple reasons why it makes no sense for my kids to even consider Banneker. I wish the school well.
I'm not any of these PPs, and I don't necessarily agree with PP you quoted in bold.
However, I think what PP is saying here is that an all-black environment, and frankly, an all-black-led and all-black-all-high-achieving environment, is not representative of broader society. Following high school graduation, or at the latest, following graduation from a historically black college, Banneker grads will need to navigate a world in which whites are the majority and blacks occupy few positions of power or influence. Similarly, graduates from an all girl school will encounter a male-dominated work environment in most fields. I think this was the point, that a school like Wilson is a more realistic introduction to the world out there. Again, I don't necessarily agree that such an "artificially controlled" environment is such a bad thing during formative years, but this was PP's point.
Many minority parents (us included, and Asians excluded) will not send our kids to Wilson because it is not the big world out there that we want our kids to ever have to navigate. That is why so many of the high SES AA parents have their kids in private schools not DCPS, not Latin, Basis, Walls, and especially not Banneker or Wilson. The colleges we want our children to attend will be a much bigger world than the one in which they are presently living, but all AA students there will have made it to the decent colleges our kids will attend. Some of them will come from much more socioeconomically deprived environments than any of the AA kids in the top DC private schools here, and kudos to those kids for getting to the same college our kids will be at, and at that point in our kids lives we will consider it a valuable and good experience if they integrate into a more AA community and learn from those kids.
But the truth is, NOT all AA and Latino kids at Wilson are college bound. And that is not the kind of diversity or "world" we want for our kids in high school, or ever as a peer group, which is why they are each one of a very few number of AA kids in each class at every private school around here. They can experience it at Harvard, where, unlike in the DC privates, "diversity" is much more than just skin deep. And they can also meet the kids from flyover country, from Oklahoma, Latin America, and Greece etc. At that point it will be all good, because at that point the kids who could really get them into trouble will be the white, multi-generational legacy trust fund brats, not the multi-generational inner city poverty AA population here where many kids never had a chance because their mothers were on crack while they were in utero.
Sorry to insult so many and paint with far too broad a brush, but this the reason that many if not most high SES AA kids in DC, if they are ever in DCPS, leave sometime during ES, without hesitation or any kind of inner conflict, and none of the angst that white liberals seem to experience even moving from school to school here. For parents like us, the equation is quite simple. We do what we believe is best for our kids, and it ain't Banneker or Wilson or Walls or anywhere except private school. Never has been and never will be. And during all this time they are learning how to operate in the white educated world, which is still the world that mostly matters in this country (although the "white" part of that is becoming less and less pristine with every generation......
But PP, I have to ask this question - we are veering off - as a AA family with very high HHI and one kid in DCPS and one in private (each kid is very different), even I have realized that Banneker kids are getting into those same colleges that you are spending over $100k to get your kid into to. For my HBCU family, we want our kids to follow us. We understand that they may not, but given our professions, we are certainly not more impressed with kids whose parents spent all of that money to get their kids into those ivies, etc. Also, as an AA girl who grew up in a very affluent suburb here, I swore that I would never let my kids go through what I did as being one of the very few. Not fun at all. There is more to education than academics.
Also, the reason that I also like Banneker (my DS is not a candidate b/c he would not be able to manage the work) is that all of the kids are successful. Wilson scares him b/c some of the kids are scary, but not at Banneker. Therefore the choice for us would have been Banneker. With all that said, my DS will have to go private. Not because I think those schools are so much better, but because he needs a really small environment.
Anonymous
04/25/2015 02:58
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp quoted, but regarding the bolded, What is artificial about the environment at Banneker? That's such an odd thing to say. I'm a current Banneker parent, btw.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the white PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that an all-black high school could be intellectually rigorous and successful at preparing students for top colleges.
I think the black PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that Banneker is neither as intellectually rigorous nor as successful at preparing students for top colleges as other available options, especially for whites, Asians, Latinos and high SES blacks.
So be it.
Oh come on. Banneker is clearly doing something very right, given its college placement and AP results. Maybe it is not the same as TJ but that is not the question. The question is why don't any white parents, at all, even consider this very good school as compared to other good DC options like Walls and Wilson?
I don't understand the comparison to TJ. According to the latest stats, white people are shunning TJ, and the Asian population is increasingly dominant. So based on this thread, most of the whites who responded said that the school was not rigorous enough; the school was no TJ; and, the school reported too low SAT scores. Hmm, if that is truly the reason, why are whites also declining in enrollment at TJ?
Go find the SAT scores for TJ, compare them to Wilson and to Banneker, and you will see the answer.
No, that's not the answer to the question. White people are using SAT scores for their reasons to not send their children to Banneker. What is the reason for white people not sending their children to TJ, a largely Asian populated magnet school with great SAT scores?
You are a bit slow today, aren't you?
SAT scores at TJ are super high, showing it is a very competitive, race-blind, school. Many white students do try to get in; few do, because there's better qualified (often Asian) students.
SAT scores at Wilson are relatively high for a non-selective and super diverse school. Disclosure: my kids (Latino) will probably end up there.
SAT scores at Banneker at surprisingly low for a selective school. Why would whites (or other with better alternatives) send their kids there, unless for some reason they are looking for an all-black immersion experience?
Yes, slow. To be clear. Banneker is not all black. They have a high Latino population. They also have Asian students. Again, if a great college is your end game, Banneker is it. If you are caught up into SAT scores - I don't know, you have so much attitude - why in God's name would you send them to Wilson. Wilson is nothing to write home about. I am inbounds to Wilson and my kid is afraid to go there. And I'm black.
I won't tell you what to do with your kid, so please don't tell me what to do your mine, especially when you obviously are quite ill-informed. There are many more Latino (and Asian) at Wilson than at Banneker, and going to great colleges, AND learning how to live in the big world out there, instead of self-segregating themselves in a small and [b]very artificial environment. [/b]
It is great that DCPS offers different choices, as we live in a very diverse city. I am in this thread because the title question intrigued me, and I wanted to learn more about the school. What I have discovered is multiple reasons why it makes no sense for my kids to even consider Banneker. I wish the school well.
I'm not any of these PPs, and I don't necessarily agree with PP you quoted in bold.
However, I think what PP is saying here is that an all-black environment, and frankly, an all-black-led and all-black-all-high-achieving environment, is not representative of broader society. Following high school graduation, or at the latest, following graduation from a historically black college, Banneker grads will need to navigate a world in which whites are the majority and blacks occupy few positions of power or influence. Similarly, graduates from an all girl school will encounter a male-dominated work environment in most fields. I think this was the point, that a school like Wilson is a more realistic introduction to the world out there. Again, I don't necessarily agree that such an "artificially controlled" environment is such a bad thing during formative years, but this was PP's point.
Many minority parents (us included, and Asians excluded) will not send our kids to Wilson because it is not the big world out there that we want our kids to ever have to navigate. That is why so many of the high SES AA parents have their kids in private schools not DCPS, not Latin, Basis, Walls, and especially not Banneker or Wilson. The colleges we want our children to attend will be a much bigger world than the one in which they are presently living, but all AA students there will have made it to the decent colleges our kids will attend. Some of them will come from much more socioeconomically deprived environments than any of the AA kids in the top DC private schools here, and kudos to those kids for getting to the same college our kids will be at, and at that point in our kids lives we will consider it a valuable and good experience if they integrate into a more AA community and learn from those kids.
But the truth is, NOT all AA and Latino kids at Wilson are college bound. And that is not the kind of diversity or "world" we want for our kids in high school, or ever as a peer group, which is why they are each one of a very few number of AA kids in each class at every private school around here. They can experience it at Harvard, where, unlike in the DC privates, "diversity" is much more than just skin deep. And they can also meet the kids from flyover country, from Oklahoma, Latin America, and Greece etc. At that point it will be all good, because at that point the kids who could really get them into trouble will be the white, multi-generational legacy trust fund brats, not the multi-generational inner city poverty AA population here where many kids never had a chance because their mothers were on crack while they were in utero.
Sorry to insult so many and paint with far too broad a brush, but this the reason that many if not most high SES AA kids in DC, if they are ever in DCPS, leave sometime during ES, without hesitation or any kind of inner conflict, and none of the angst that white liberals seem to experience even moving from school to school here. For parents like us, the equation is quite simple. We do what we believe is best for our kids, and it ain't Banneker or Wilson or Walls or anywhere except private school. Never has been and never will be. And during all this time they are learning how to operate in the white educated world, which is still the world that mostly matters in this country (although the "white" part of that is becoming less and less pristine with every generation......
Anonymous
04/24/2015 22:15
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The info in this article may have something to do with it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/ap-offerings-vary-widely-in-dc-high-schools/2015/04/20/06348584-e775-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html
Banneker is an International Baccalaureate school. That's likely why they don't have as many AP offerings.
The challenge índex by the Washington Post includes both the IB and the AP.
How does Banneker rank, compared to other local high schools?
Number 33.
Anonymous
04/24/2015 22:07
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:The info in this article may have something to do with it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/ap-offerings-vary-widely-in-dc-high-schools/2015/04/20/06348584-e775-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html
Banneker is an International Baccalaureate school. That's likely why they don't have as many AP offerings.
Anonymous
04/24/2015 21:59
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:The info in this article may have something to do with it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/ap-offerings-vary-widely-in-dc-high-schools/2015/04/20/06348584-e775-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html
Indeed. Banneker is a fine school, but there are better ones.
Anonymous
04/24/2015 21:45
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Maybe white people could learn some black culture. It would clearly be helpful.
Anonymous
04/24/2015 21:36
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
The info in this article may have something to do with it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/ap-offerings-vary-widely-in-dc-high-schools/2015/04/20/06348584-e775-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/ap-offerings-vary-widely-in-dc-high-schools/2015/04/20/06348584-e775-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html
Anonymous
04/24/2015 21:25
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp quoted, but regarding the bolded, What is artificial about the environment at Banneker? That's such an odd thing to say. I'm a current Banneker parent, btw.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the white PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that an all-black high school could be intellectually rigorous and successful at preparing students for top colleges.
I think the black PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that Banneker is neither as intellectually rigorous nor as successful at preparing students for top colleges as other available options, especially for whites, Asians, Latinos and high SES blacks.
So be it.
Oh come on. Banneker is clearly doing something very right, given its college placement and AP results. Maybe it is not the same as TJ but that is not the question. The question is why don't any white parents, at all, even consider this very good school as compared to other good DC options like Walls and Wilson?
I don't understand the comparison to TJ. According to the latest stats, white people are shunning TJ, and the Asian population is increasingly dominant. So based on this thread, most of the whites who responded said that the school was not rigorous enough; the school was no TJ; and, the school reported too low SAT scores. Hmm, if that is truly the reason, why are whites also declining in enrollment at TJ?
Go find the SAT scores for TJ, compare them to Wilson and to Banneker, and you will see the answer.
No, that's not the answer to the question. White people are using SAT scores for their reasons to not send their children to Banneker. What is the reason for white people not sending their children to TJ, a largely Asian populated magnet school with great SAT scores?
You are a bit slow today, aren't you?
SAT scores at TJ are super high, showing it is a very competitive, race-blind, school. Many white students do try to get in; few do, because there's better qualified (often Asian) students.
SAT scores at Wilson are relatively high for a non-selective and super diverse school. Disclosure: my kids (Latino) will probably end up there.
SAT scores at Banneker at surprisingly low for a selective school. Why would whites (or other with better alternatives) send their kids there, unless for some reason they are looking for an all-black immersion experience?
Yes, slow. To be clear. Banneker is not all black. They have a high Latino population. They also have Asian students. Again, if a great college is your end game, Banneker is it. If you are caught up into SAT scores - I don't know, you have so much attitude - why in God's name would you send them to Wilson. Wilson is nothing to write home about. I am inbounds to Wilson and my kid is afraid to go there. And I'm black.
I won't tell you what to do with your kid, so please don't tell me what to do your mine, especially when you obviously are quite ill-informed. There are many more Latino (and Asian) at Wilson than at Banneker, and going to great colleges, AND learning how to live in the big world out there, instead of self-segregating themselves in a small and very artificial environment.
It is great that DCPS offers different choices, as we live in a very diverse city. I am in this thread because the title question intrigued me, and I wanted to learn more about the school. What I have discovered is multiple reasons why it makes no sense for my kids to even consider Banneker. I wish the school well.
I'm not any of these PPs, and I don't necessarily agree with PP you quoted in bold.
However, I think what PP is saying here is that an all-black environment, and frankly, an all-black-led and all-black-all-high-achieving environment, is not representative of broader society. Following high school graduation, or at the latest, following graduation from a historically black college, Banneker grads will need to navigate a world in which whites are the majority and blacks occupy few positions of power or influence. Similarly, graduates from an all girl school will encounter a male-dominated work environment in most fields. I think this was the point, that a school like Wilson is a more realistic introduction to the world out there. Again, I don't necessarily agree that such an "artificially controlled" environment is such a bad thing during formative years, but this was PP's point.
But why is this so different from what happens at other all-white high achieving environments? Why is it a bad thing it its all black, but not if its all white? (i.e(JKLM elementary schools in NW or TJ (asian) and Langley in VA or Churchill, Wooten in MD? I apologize if I am not articulating this very well, but I just don't understand why folks are arguing about Banneker and what it offers it AA population? White don't want to go there, that's clear, but why are whites putting the school down so much if it does a great good of educating its population?
You are responding to me. I did not say it was bad. In fact, I said that I did not agree with PP's assessment of it as being bad.
But to answer the question in your first sentence, it's different because white-male-dominance is (unfortunately) the national norm. Therefore a white-dominant school represents the real (American) world more than a black-dominated or female-dominated school. Don't shoot the messenger, as if this is news to anyone.
Further up thread I defended Banneker, FWIW.
I agree with this. It is important to remember the demographics of our country. If I remember correctly:
- White 65%
- Latino 15%
- Black 13%
- Then Asian and other
As a successful female executive, it wouldn't have mattered if I went to a majority school (went to a women's college) b/c men don't accept you anyway. What is your point? Because I sit in class with them that's better? Do you tell Jewish people who attend Jewish schools and colleges that they are making a terrible mistake b/c the world is not majority Jewish?
You are getting it all backwards. This thread is not about why black parents send kids to Banneker. There are many good reasons for that, similar to, say, Jewish parents sending kids to a Jewish school.
This thread is about why white parents don't send their kids to Banneker. Let's follow with the Jewish example. If you were Muslim, would you send your kids to an all-Jewish school?
Unlikely. But possible. What if it happens to be the best school in the region by far?
Or, what if you are in the middle of Israel in some Jewish-only area and, no matter what, there are no Muslim students around?
Now, the reason whites don't send their kids to Banneker is because neither of these 2 scenarios apply. There are plenty of other equally good, if not better, schools around. And, because we live in a majority-white country, not in Nigeria, there is no particular reason to send a majority white kid to study in a minority black bubble that doesn't represent the demographics of the population at large.
Again, this doesnt say or mean anything about the quality of the school. But it helps explain why so few whites (or Latino or Asian or Native American) send their kids there.
Anonymous
04/24/2015 20:56
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp quoted, but regarding the bolded, What is artificial about the environment at Banneker? That's such an odd thing to say. I'm a current Banneker parent, btw.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the white PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that an all-black high school could be intellectually rigorous and successful at preparing students for top colleges.
I think the black PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that Banneker is neither as intellectually rigorous nor as successful at preparing students for top colleges as other available options, especially for whites, Asians, Latinos and high SES blacks.
So be it.
Oh come on. Banneker is clearly doing something very right, given its college placement and AP results. Maybe it is not the same as TJ but that is not the question. The question is why don't any white parents, at all, even consider this very good school as compared to other good DC options like Walls and Wilson?
I don't understand the comparison to TJ. According to the latest stats, white people are shunning TJ, and the Asian population is increasingly dominant. So based on this thread, most of the whites who responded said that the school was not rigorous enough; the school was no TJ; and, the school reported too low SAT scores. Hmm, if that is truly the reason, why are whites also declining in enrollment at TJ?
Go find the SAT scores for TJ, compare them to Wilson and to Banneker, and you will see the answer.
No, that's not the answer to the question. White people are using SAT scores for their reasons to not send their children to Banneker. What is the reason for white people not sending their children to TJ, a largely Asian populated magnet school with great SAT scores?
You are a bit slow today, aren't you?
SAT scores at TJ are super high, showing it is a very competitive, race-blind, school. Many white students do try to get in; few do, because there's better qualified (often Asian) students.
SAT scores at Wilson are relatively high for a non-selective and super diverse school. Disclosure: my kids (Latino) will probably end up there.
SAT scores at Banneker at surprisingly low for a selective school. Why would whites (or other with better alternatives) send their kids there, unless for some reason they are looking for an all-black immersion experience?
Yes, slow. To be clear. Banneker is not all black. They have a high Latino population. They also have Asian students. Again, if a great college is your end game, Banneker is it. If you are caught up into SAT scores - I don't know, you have so much attitude - why in God's name would you send them to Wilson. Wilson is nothing to write home about. I am inbounds to Wilson and my kid is afraid to go there. And I'm black.
I won't tell you what to do with your kid, so please don't tell me what to do your mine, especially when you obviously are quite ill-informed. There are many more Latino (and Asian) at Wilson than at Banneker, and going to great colleges, AND learning how to live in the big world out there, instead of self-segregating themselves in a small and very artificial environment.
It is great that DCPS offers different choices, as we live in a very diverse city. I am in this thread because the title question intrigued me, and I wanted to learn more about the school. What I have discovered is multiple reasons why it makes no sense for my kids to even consider Banneker. I wish the school well.
I'm not any of these PPs, and I don't necessarily agree with PP you quoted in bold.
However, I think what PP is saying here is that an all-black environment, and frankly, an all-black-led and all-black-all-high-achieving environment, is not representative of broader society. Following high school graduation, or at the latest, following graduation from a historically black college, Banneker grads will need to navigate a world in which whites are the majority and blacks occupy few positions of power or influence. Similarly, graduates from an all girl school will encounter a male-dominated work environment in most fields. I think this was the point, that a school like Wilson is a more realistic introduction to the world out there. Again, I don't necessarily agree that such an "artificially controlled" environment is such a bad thing during formative years, but this was PP's point.
But why is this so different from what happens at other all-white high achieving environments? Why is it a bad thing it its all black, but not if its all white? (i.e(JKLM elementary schools in NW or TJ (asian) and Langley in VA or Churchill, Wooten in MD? I apologize if I am not articulating this very well, but I just don't understand why folks are arguing about Banneker and what it offers it AA population? White don't want to go there, that's clear, but why are whites putting the school down so much if it does a great good of educating its population?
You are responding to me. I did not say it was bad. In fact, I said that I did not agree with PP's assessment of it as being bad.
But to answer the question in your first sentence, it's different because white-male-dominance is (unfortunately) the national norm. Therefore a white-dominant school represents the real (American) world more than a black-dominated or female-dominated school. Don't shoot the messenger, as if this is news to anyone.
Further up thread I defended Banneker, FWIW.
I agree with this. It is important to remember the demographics of our country. If I remember correctly:
- White 65%
- Latino 15%
- Black 13%
- Then Asian and other
As a successful female executive, it wouldn't have mattered if I went to a majority school (went to a women's college) b/c men don't accept you anyway. What is your point? Because I sit in class with them that's better? Do you tell Jewish people who attend Jewish schools and colleges that they are making a terrible mistake b/c the world is not majority Jewish?
Anonymous
04/24/2015 20:53
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp quoted, but regarding the bolded, What is artificial about the environment at Banneker? That's such an odd thing to say. I'm a current Banneker parent, btw.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the white PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that an all-black high school could be intellectually rigorous and successful at preparing students for top colleges.
I think the black PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that Banneker is neither as intellectually rigorous nor as successful at preparing students for top colleges as other available options, especially for whites, Asians, Latinos and high SES blacks.
So be it.
Oh come on. Banneker is clearly doing something very right, given its college placement and AP results. Maybe it is not the same as TJ but that is not the question. The question is why don't any white parents, at all, even consider this very good school as compared to other good DC options like Walls and Wilson?
I don't understand the comparison to TJ. According to the latest stats, white people are shunning TJ, and the Asian population is increasingly dominant. So based on this thread, most of the whites who responded said that the school was not rigorous enough; the school was no TJ; and, the school reported too low SAT scores. Hmm, if that is truly the reason, why are whites also declining in enrollment at TJ?
Go find the SAT scores for TJ, compare them to Wilson and to Banneker, and you will see the answer.
No, that's not the answer to the question. White people are using SAT scores for their reasons to not send their children to Banneker. What is the reason for white people not sending their children to TJ, a largely Asian populated magnet school with great SAT scores?
You are a bit slow today, aren't you?
SAT scores at TJ are super high, showing it is a very competitive, race-blind, school. Many white students do try to get in; few do, because there's better qualified (often Asian) students.
SAT scores at Wilson are relatively high for a non-selective and super diverse school. Disclosure: my kids (Latino) will probably end up there.
SAT scores at Banneker at surprisingly low for a selective school. Why would whites (or other with better alternatives) send their kids there, unless for some reason they are looking for an all-black immersion experience?
Yes, slow. To be clear. Banneker is not all black. They have a high Latino population. They also have Asian students. Again, if a great college is your end game, Banneker is it. If you are caught up into SAT scores - I don't know, you have so much attitude - why in God's name would you send them to Wilson. Wilson is nothing to write home about. I am inbounds to Wilson and my kid is afraid to go there. And I'm black.
I won't tell you what to do with your kid, so please don't tell me what to do your mine, especially when you obviously are quite ill-informed. There are many more Latino (and Asian) at Wilson than at Banneker, and going to great colleges, AND learning how to live in the big world out there, instead of self-segregating themselves in a small and very artificial environment.
It is great that DCPS offers different choices, as we live in a very diverse city. I am in this thread because the title question intrigued me, and I wanted to learn more about the school. What I have discovered is multiple reasons why it makes no sense for my kids to even consider Banneker. I wish the school well.
I'm not any of these PPs, and I don't necessarily agree with PP you quoted in bold.
However, I think what PP is saying here is that an all-black environment, and frankly, an all-black-led and all-black-all-high-achieving environment, is not representative of broader society. Following high school graduation, or at the latest, following graduation from a historically black college, Banneker grads will need to navigate a world in which whites are the majority and blacks occupy few positions of power or influence. Similarly, graduates from an all girl school will encounter a male-dominated work environment in most fields. I think this was the point, that a school like Wilson is a more realistic introduction to the world out there. Again, I don't necessarily agree that such an "artificially controlled" environment is such a bad thing during formative years, but this was PP's point.
WTH. I went to a women's college so OMG, I can't navigate the real world? Dumb as hell. Going to a women's college empowered me in ways that you can't imagine. Funny how so many successful women attended women's colleges. So according to you, no women's colleges either. They are not the "real" world.
Anonymous
04/24/2015 18:48
Subject: Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Since someone was asking about TJ, that equally selective high school not far from Banneker...let me add their SAT scores.
READING
TJ 723
Banneker 496
National 496
MATH
TJ 756
Banneker 506
National 514
The
WRITING
TJ 715
Banneker 486
National 488
Source: https://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/schoolprofile/docs/2013_14_TJHSST%20Profile.pdf
Notice the difference?
This is an interesting post. There is a long thread in the VA public school forum about TJ's admissions. White posters have admitted that they no longer have interest in sending their children to TJ because it is majority Asain, and the current admissions is 75% Asian. At least one poster, maybe two, said that it was illegal and VA should not allow the school to be so Asain dominant. Other posters said that scores were'nt the most important factor and admissions should be more holistic and look beyond scores in its selection. Some posters opined that TJ's Asian dominant students were too one-dimensional for their white children. It is evident that many whites in the liberal (in name only) DMV feel uncomfortable sending their children to a school where they would be in the racial minority. It is also evident that many of these same people only consider academic scores important when it is advantageous to their children.
See the similarities in posters? Or, are the same white people posting in both Banneker and TJ threads?
Anonymous
04/24/2015 18:24
Subject: Re:Why don't white students go to Banneker?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it is perfectly understandable why many black families think Banneker is a great opportunity for their kids, and choose it. I think it is perfectly understandable why most white families do not. I do not think either should be shamed for their perfectly reasonable, non-racist, choices.
What am I missing here?
Why is it perfectly understandable that NO white families consider Banneker even a possibility? I don't find it understandable myself, nor to I find it "non-racist." I find it, frankly, racist.
because, at this time, probably most white students graduating MS in DC are zoned for Wilson, and they can find everything that Banneker can offer that they value (presumably black role models, a place where studying is not seen as acting white, etc are not things that white families value) at Wilson.
Fixed that for you. I personally know MS and HS white kids zoned for Cardozo, Eastern, and Dunbar. My awareness is limited. I am positive there are a lot more white teenagers zoned beyond the Wilson border, that I am unaware of.