Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. For all those clamoring for the event to be cancelled, I have a couple of questions?
1) Do you think that after 100+ years of going to the Zoo, African-American families will stop coming (how will they even know that it has been cancelled)?
2) Are you proposing that African-American families be forcibly kept out of the zoo? Or, are you suggesting that the Zoo close on Easter Monday?
3) If the zoo does close, wouldn't that be perceived as discriminatory and a way to keep the "black folks" out of pristine, crime-free Woodley Park?
4) Same thing for having tickets - the zoo is free everyday of the year except for African-American family day (note Boo at the Zoo is after the Zoo's normal hours of operation).
5) Lastly, If the zoo closes on Easter Monday and there's still violence due to kids being out of school and on spring break, would would have been the point of cancelling?
I'm just trying to picture how it would look to cancel the day and how you're going to stop African-American families from visiting the Zoo (especially if they go every single year). I should admit that I'm a AA and a native Washingtonian who has been to the Zoo on Easter Monday as a child and now as a mom. I had no idea the day was "advertised" on the web site, I just knew that's what we did on Easter Monday.
For me the real issue is that during Spring Break you have a lot of teens looking for something to get into. Maybe providing mandatory Spring Break enrichment camp for teens who are not in the care of their parents/families would be a better solution than trying to keep out certain people or breaking 100+ year-old traditions.

See...that is point! They do not care what these teens do - as long as it is not in Woodley Park. They do not want a large congregation of AA's in their neighborhood - that's why you had suggestions to move a Zoo function to RFK. It would not reduce the likliehood of an incident - it just would not happen in Woodley Park.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. For all those clamoring for the event to be cancelled, I have a couple of questions?
1) Do you think that after 100+ years of going to the Zoo, African-American families will stop coming (how will they even know that it has been cancelled)?
2) Are you proposing that African-American families be forcibly kept out of the zoo? Or, are you suggesting that the Zoo close on Easter Monday?
3) If the zoo does close, wouldn't that be perceived as discriminatory and a way to keep the "black folks" out of pristine, crime-free Woodley Park?
4) Same thing for having tickets - the zoo is free everyday of the year except for African-American family day (note Boo at the Zoo is after the Zoo's normal hours of operation).
5) Lastly, If the zoo closes on Easter Monday and there's still violence due to kids being out of school and on spring break, would would have been the point of cancelling?
I'm just trying to picture how it would look to cancel the day and how you're going to stop African-American families from visiting the Zoo (especially if they go every single year). I should admit that I'm a AA and a native Washingtonian who has been to the Zoo on Easter Monday as a child and now as a mom. I had no idea the day was "advertised" on the web site, I just knew that's what we did on Easter Monday.
For me the real issue is that during Spring Break you have a lot of teens looking for something to get into. Maybe providing mandatory Spring Break enrichment camp for teens who are not in the care of their parents/families would be a better solution than trying to keep out certain people or breaking 100+ year-old traditions.

See...that is point! They do not care what these teens do - as long as it is not in Woodley Park. They do not want a large congregation of AA's in their neighborhood - that's why you had suggestions to move a Zoo function to RFK. It would not reduce the likliehood of an incident - it just would not happen in Woodley Park.

Anonymous wrote:NP. For all those clamoring for the event to be cancelled, I have a couple of questions?
1) Do you think that after 100+ years of going to the Zoo, African-American families will stop coming (how will they even know that it has been cancelled)?
2) Are you proposing that African-American families be forcibly kept out of the zoo? Or, are you suggesting that the Zoo close on Easter Monday?
3) If the zoo does close, wouldn't that be perceived as discriminatory and a way to keep the "black folks" out of pristine, crime-free Woodley Park?
4) Same thing for having tickets - the zoo is free everyday of the year except for African-American family day (note Boo at the Zoo is after the Zoo's normal hours of operation).
5) Lastly, If the zoo closes on Easter Monday and there's still violence due to kids being out of school and on spring break, would would have been the point of cancelling?
I'm just trying to picture how it would look to cancel the day and how you're going to stop African-American families from visiting the Zoo (especially if they go every single year). I should admit that I'm a AA and a native Washingtonian who has been to the Zoo on Easter Monday as a child and now as a mom. I had no idea the day was "advertised" on the web site, I just knew that's what we did on Easter Monday.
For me the real issue is that during Spring Break you have a lot of teens looking for something to get into. Maybe providing mandatory Spring Break enrichment camp for teens who are not in the care of their parents/families would be a better solution than trying to keep out certain people or breaking 100+ year-old traditions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest - dispense with the talk about "family freindly neighborhoods" "more police resources" blah blah. The truth of the matter is that, although this was violence between folks from other neighborhoods, the upper SES White folks in Woodley Park are disturbed that they got a taste of something that normally occurs in other places in the District.

Fine. I have no probelm with that. But I expect you all to be equally as vocal in discussing things like the shooting near Ballou or the girl in SE who was accidentally shot a few weeks ago. I live in upper NW just east of 16th street and I am equally as disturbed by these incidents. Here is the difference. You are saying that "we don't want that crap in our neighborhood." The rest of us are saying "To hell with that, we do not want that crap in our City!" Many of us are cynical because many of you are giving the impression that you only give a hoot about your neighborhood. May not be the intent, but that is the way it comes across.

I think people have the right to care more about what happens in their neighborhood than across town. People moved to that neighborhood for a reason, they don't want to be near high-crime areas, and so of course they don't like it when the crime comes to them. If there was homegrown crime in that area, I'd bet the neighborhood would feel just as strongly and try to fix it. Other parts of the city should care more about the crime in their neighborhoods and work to fix it. Or leave, if they don't want to be in a crime-ridden neighborhood.

I completely agree - why shouldn't people be more focused (e.g., in terms of discussing it on a message board) on what happens in their neighborhood? It doesn't mean they don't care about issues in other places. Most people don't have the time to tackle all the world's problems, so it makes sense they would focus on the ones that hit closest to home. Also, this incident was related to an event at the zoo - I don't think it is crazy to think that it would trigger more interest/conversation than violence on other occasions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest - dispense with the talk about "family freindly neighborhoods" "more police resources" blah blah. The truth of the matter is that, although this was violence between folks from other neighborhoods, the upper SES White folks in Woodley Park are disturbed that they got a taste of something that normally occurs in other places in the District.

Fine. I have no probelm with that. But I expect you all to be equally as vocal in discussing things like the shooting near Ballou or the girl in SE who was accidentally shot a few weeks ago. I live in upper NW just east of 16th street and I am equally as disturbed by these incidents. Here is the difference. You are saying that "we don't want that crap in our neighborhood." The rest of us are saying "To hell with that, we do not want that crap in our City!" Many of us are cynical because many of you are giving the impression that you only give a hoot about your neighborhood. May not be the intent, but that is the way it comes across.

I think people have the right to care more about what happens in their neighborhood than across town. People moved to that neighborhood for a reason, they don't want to be near high-crime areas, and so of course they don't like it when the crime comes to them. If there was homegrown crime in that area, I'd bet the neighborhood would feel just as strongly and try to fix it. Other parts of the city should care more about the crime in their neighborhoods and work to fix it. Or leave, if they don't want to be in a crime-ridden neighborhood.

That's fine...but then again people have the right to "write-off" a few isolated incidents in your neighborhood - one that is nornally immune to these things.

Also, it a poor assumption to imply that people in other parts of the District do not care and are not working to fix crime in their neighborhoods. Heck, crime is NOT an issue in my neighborhood at all, but even I know that there are others throughout the District who deal with this every day and are trying to fix it every day. Feel blessed that you have mobility and means. You would not know because you are exercising your right to only care about Woodley Park.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest - dispense with the talk about "family freindly neighborhoods" "more police resources" blah blah. The truth of the matter is that, although this was violence between folks from other neighborhoods, the upper SES White folks in Woodley Park are disturbed that they got a taste of something that normally occurs in other places in the District.

Fine. I have no probelm with that. But I expect you all to be equally as vocal in discussing things like the shooting near Ballou or the girl in SE who was accidentally shot a few weeks ago. I live in upper NW just east of 16th street and I am equally as disturbed by these incidents. Here is the difference. You are saying that "we don't want that crap in our neighborhood." The rest of us are saying "To hell with that, we do not want that crap in our City!" Many of us are cynical because many of you are giving the impression that you only give a hoot about your neighborhood. May not be the intent, but that is the way it comes across.

I think people have the right to care more about what happens in their neighborhood than across town. People moved to that neighborhood for a reason, they don't want to be near high-crime areas, and so of course they don't like it when the crime comes to them. If there was homegrown crime in that area, I'd bet the neighborhood would feel just as strongly and try to fix it. Other parts of the city should care more about the crime in their neighborhoods and work to fix it. Or leave, if they don't want to be in a crime-ridden neighborhood.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to bother you, but I'd love to know.

I'm sure that bothering me is the least of your concerns. But, here are two posts from this thread:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/379308.page#5054348
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/379308.page#5054701

Thank you, as I am interested in your solutions to the problem. I'll read the links as soon as I'm able. Thanks again.

PP here. I read them and I do recall these posts. I was, however, hoping for something a bit more concrete, beyond let's monitor social sites and make a list of lessons learned.

If you were chief, what measures would you implement for next year's event?

You must not have read very carefully. The event is not for another year. There is no reason to act now while information about the event is still being gathered. A youth was arrested for the shooting. A full report on what the police learned from him has not been made public. I also do not have access to police internal accounts which would reveal which of their procedures failed and which were successful. If I were chief, I would wait until I have that information as well as advise from other stakeholders. Then, I would implement appropriate procedures. I know that many posters such as yourself want an immediate answer. It would be foolish to make decisions now that do not have to be made now.

A somewhat unrelated, but still somewhat related matter involves the groups of kids who were involved. The original media reports focused on two groups from SE. The Post called them "gangs", but I am not sure that it the proper term. DC tends to have "crews" rather than "gangs". So, I'm just going to use the neutral term "groups". Anyway, the Post described how Good Hope Road was the divider between these two groups' territories. The guy who was arrested for doing the shooting is from SW. So, it could be that the April 14 and April 21 incidents were not related.

At any rate, more knowledge is almost al
ways better then less knowledge. There is no imperative to make decisions this week. Why would you want to?

With any and all due respect, there is NO "immediate answer." Let's not kid ourselves. The expanding teen rage and resulting violence is only one consequence of deep rooted severe problems that have been ignored far too long. Slapping another bandaid onto a hemoraging generation may be better than nothing, but it will never really reduce the bloodshed, nor the trauma inflicted on Washington by its own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest - dispense with the talk about "family freindly neighborhoods" "more police resources" blah blah. The truth of the matter is that, although this was violence between folks from other neighborhoods, the upper SES White folks in Woodley Park are disturbed that they got a taste of something that normally occurs in other places in the District.

Fine. I have no probelm with that. But I expect you all to be equally as vocal in discussing things like the shooting near Ballou or the girl in SE who was accidentally shot a few weeks ago. I live in upper NW just east of 16th street and I am equally as disturbed by these incidents. Here is the difference. You are saying that "we don't want that crap in our neighborhood." The rest of us are saying "To hell with that, we do not want that crap in our City!" Many of us are cynical because many of you are giving the impression that you only give a hoot about your neighborhood. May not be the intent, but that is the way it comes across.

I think people have the right to care more about what happens in their neighborhood than across town. People moved to that neighborhood for a reason, they don't want to be near high-crime areas, and so of course they don't like it when the crime comes to them. If there was homegrown crime in that area, I'd bet the neighborhood would feel just as strongly and try to fix it. Other parts of the city should care more about the crime in their neighborhoods and work to fix it. Or leave, if they don't want to be in a crime-ridden neighborhood.

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest - dispense with the talk about "family freindly neighborhoods" "more police resources" blah blah. The truth of the matter is that, although this was violence between folks from other neighborhoods, the upper SES White folks in Woodley Park are disturbed that they got a taste of something that normally occurs in other places in the District.

Fine. I have no probelm with that. But I expect you all to be equally as vocal in discussing things like the shooting near Ballou or the girl in SE who was accidentally shot a few weeks ago. I live in upper NW just east of 16th street and I am equally as disturbed by these incidents. Here is the difference. You are saying that "we don't want that crap in our neighborhood." The rest of us are saying "To hell with that, we do not want that crap in our City!" Many of us are cynical because many of you are giving the impression that you only give a hoot about your neighborhood. May not be the intent, but that is the way it comes across.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to bother you, but I'd love to know.

I'm sure that bothering me is the least of your concerns. But, here are two posts from this thread:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/379308.page#5054348
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/379308.page#5054701

Thank you, as I am interested in your solutions to the problem. I'll read the links as soon as I'm able. Thanks again.

PP here. I read them and I do recall these posts. I was, however, hoping for something a bit more concrete, beyond let's monitor social sites and make a list of lessons learned.

If you were chief, what measures would you implement for next year's event?

You must not have read very carefully. The event is not for another year. There is no reason to act now while information about the event is still being gathered. A youth was arrested for the shooting. A full report on what the police learned from him has not been made public. I also do not have access to police internal accounts which would reveal which of their procedures failed and which were successful. If I were chief, I would wait until I have that information as well as advise from other stakeholders. Then, I would implement appropriate procedures. I know that many posters such as yourself want an immediate answer. It would be foolish to make decisions now that do not have to be made now.

A somewhat unrelated, but still somewhat related matter involves the groups of kids who were involved. The original media reports focused on two groups from SE. The Post called them "gangs", but I am not sure that it the proper term. DC tends to have "crews" rather than "gangs". So, I'm just going to use the neutral term "groups". Anyway, the Post described how Good Hope Road was the divider between these two groups' territories. The guy who was arrested for doing the shooting is from SW. So, it could be that the April 14 and April 21 incidents were not related.

At any rate, more knowledge is almost al
ways better then less knowledge. There is no imperative to make decisions this week. Why would you want to?

With any and all due respect, there is NO "immediate answer." Let's not kid ourselves. The expanding teen rage and resulting violence is only one consequence of deep rooted severe problems that have been ignored far too long. Slapping another bandaid onto a hemoraging generation may be better than nothing, but it will never really reduce the bloodshed, nor the trauma inflicted on Washington by its own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that most of the folks in this forum having a hissy fit trying to find an infallible solution don't even go to the zoo on Easter Monday. What the fuck y'all so bent outta shape for? The Smithsonian will up their security for the event next year as will the Transit Police and the Metropolitan Police. If you still don't feel safe and secure then do what you've always done - stay your ass at home.

Charming. The law enforcement departments already admitted that they felt they were well prepared and staffed for the events during spring break, including Easter Monday, and yet, the shootings and other violent acts still happened.

Exactly so keep your ass home like you normally do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that most of the folks in this forum having a hissy fit trying to find an infallible solution don't even go to the zoo on Easter Monday. What the fuck y'all so bent outta shape for? The Smithsonian will up their security for the event next year as will the Transit Police and the Metropolitan Police. If you still don't feel safe and secure then do what you've always done - stay your ass at home.

Charming. The law enforcement departments already admitted that they felt they were well prepared and staffed for the events during spring break, including Easter Monday, and yet, the shootings and other violent acts still happened.

Exactly so keep your ass home like you normally do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that most of the folks in this forum having a hissy fit trying to find an infallible solution don't even go to the zoo on Easter Monday. What the fuck y'all so bent outta shape for? The Smithsonian will up their security for the event next year as will the Transit Police and the Metropolitan Police. If you still don't feel safe and secure then do what you've always done - stay your ass at home.

Charming. The law enforcement departments already admitted that they felt they were well prepared and staffed for the events during spring break, including Easter Monday, and yet, the shootings and other violent acts still happened.