This system absolutely "closes the achievement gap" in a fraudulent manner. MCPS curriculum will not affect truly gifted kids but now bright, smart, capable students are being held back to a more rudimentary level. As there is no acceleration, these kids will be tracked now into the same courses as lower performing students and raise the average. They also will track farther behind in national tests outside MCPS as they have been given the opportunity to learn material which they could in other systems or even the old system.

In addition, the kids are the bottom are getting the advantage of constant repetition without any expenditure of additional resources. You just screw the middle kids.

Anonymous wrote:My question is regarding the new elementary grading system. Being proficient is fine but the level of proficiency is not described. And if they are going into the A-F grade in middle school then they will all be so confused. As far as grading is concerned I feel like it's a system I would use for kindergartners. Unfortunately I don't know how to compare the curriculum since my kids started with it.
For the person who pointed out the political agenda, there is no way this curriculum could close the gap. you are comparing oranges to apples. I "memorized" my multiplication tables, my son "understands" them. As far as that is concerned I think he is getting a much better education here.

Yes, the level of proficiency is described. Start with the curriculum guides:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/elementary/guides.aspx

(Or do you mean that MCPS does not specify how proficient you have to be in order to be proficient? In which case, my advice is that you ask the teacher.)

And no, they will not be confused by letter grades in middle school. Or do you think that we should start giving letter grades in preschool so that they won't be confused by letter grades in elementary school?

My question is regarding the new elementary grading system. Being proficient is fine but the level of proficiency is not described. And if they are going into the A-F grade in middle school then they will all be so confused. As far as grading is concerned I feel like it's a system I would use for kindergartners. Unfortunately I don't know how to compare the curriculum since my kids started with it.
For the person who pointed out the political agenda, there is no way this curriculum could close the gap. you are comparing oranges to apples. I "memorized" my multiplication tables, my son "understands" them. As far as that is concerned I think he is getting a much better education here.

I agree with you that, I don't want my kid to learn those points you made, such as "don't work just for grades etc." In fact that is what I keep telling my child. But this does not invalidate my earlier point. Why can't we just get a narrative report from the teacher without any grades, instead of a highly inconsistent and commentless grading method that sends a very wrong message to young children. Why do I have to keep reminding my child that grades are not important, this grading method is unfair, meaningless etc. (Of course I don't say that to my child, but I try to essentially give her that message.) Please answer this question. Don't diverge into other arguments which is not my point.

I agree with this 100%. Its awful that basically have to tell my child to ignore grades, grades are meaningless, and not fair. IMO grades serve three purposes

a.) to inform parents of a child's progress and identify areas of weakness strength so that the parent can help the child achieve what they are capable of doing
b.) provide a granular enough structure to identify learning disabilities early on so that children can get the assistance that they deserve
c.) to teach kids that achievement counts, if you are not naturally one of the super smart kids you can learn and even achieve the highest grade if you work hard

IMO "c" is a ver empowering thing for a child to learn. Every kid will hit a time at some point where something doesn't come easy and they need to spend extra effort to understand and practice to master a skill. For a kid who isn't naturally good at math to study and get the highest grade sends a powerful message to that kid. This is the type of kid that does far batter in higher education and industry later on.

I do blame the system. Look, I have a perfect perspective of it. My DD went through the old system, with great teachers and the grades were meaningful, enabled both her and me to see where she was very clearly. The system enabled her to set goals and understand the reward. It wasn't the only reason for learning, there is still the personal motivation but it was maturing process and one tool in this process. My DS is two years younger under 2.0. Same excellent teachers but the grading system is uncomprehensible. Sometimes a perfect paper is an ES, sometime it is a P. Sometimes there are critical comments on the paper and it is a P and sometimes it is an I but inevitably the report card comes in with all P's. Of course grades are not the only factor in learning BUT the tool of setting goals and understanding the relationship between effort and reward is completely missing. I do not hate 2.0, I like much of it. But come on, the grading system is so stupid and needs to be revamped or just get rid of grades entirely. That would be much less confusing. The grading system is a demotivator and parents have to now overcome that with their kids unnecessarily. My DS knows no matter what he does he will get a P on his report card.

I find that parents who focus on the grade INSTEAD of a love for learning are just plain FUCKING stupid.

fucking
stupid

I blame the parents, NOT the system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curriculum is too repetitive and the grading is horrible. My child has no clue how he is doing with a P. 100% = P 85% = P. He has no motivation to strive for excellence. Why bother- it's just another P. And I have not seen one single math assignment, quiz, or paper with any sort of grade at all. It's a week until end of the quarter conferences and I have no clue how he's doing in math and neither does he. When I ask how it's going in math, he just shrugs his shoulders. I also see a LOT of worksheets from all subject areas that come home that he says he doesn't have to do. It's either a huge waste of paper or my child is not doing the work. Since I haven't had any feedback, our family has no clue how he's really doing. The grading system when we see it, is meaningless.

If your elementary school child works, or doesn't work, for a grade, that is a problem.

If you don't know how he's doing in math, and he doesn't either, and you haven't seen any graded papers, and he says he doesn't have to do the stuff that he brought home, and you haven't talked to the teacher about this -- those are also problems.

But they're not Curriculum 2.0's problems.

AMEN!
Almost all of my DC's classwork comes home at the end of the week -- all with grades AND NOTES..and gets a weekly assessment that comes home...at parent/teacher conference we were handed a detailed assessment of DC's areas of strengths and areas that needed focus(teacher's wording -- she did not use the word "weakness") ...
You have teacher and/or school problems not a curriculum problem

B.S. The curriculum change IS the heart of the problem. Even honest teachers, principals, administrators will tell you so (off the record, of course). THEY think it is ridiculous. if you don't get that this is a bad curriculum along with a hide-the-ball grading system (which has drastically eliminated real tests) then, frankly, you deserve the sub-par system you are getting.

One day, when your child takes a real test that has real consequences, you are likely in for a rude awakening. One day, your child won't even know how to learn large quantities of info, retain that info and successfully test on that material. Either this will happen in MS or HS (if 2.0 is finally abandoned by then) or it is when your kid takes an SAT test. Taking squishy assessments that don't have a clear standard might work for you and your kid now, but that isn't reality. Everyone getting the same letter grade regardless of whether they answer all questions correctly or whether they get 7 questions wrong. Big wake up call coming your way when your kid simply expects a "good" grade for everything.

How dumb and short-sighted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course the two cases are different. Children are not that stupid. They know there are grades called N, I, P, and ES.

Yes, they know that there are grades called N, I, P, and ES. But do they care? And should they care?

Here is what I want my elementary school kids to learn: do your best.

Here are some things I don't want my elementary school kids to learn:

do your best so that you get a good grade.
do your best, but if you don't get a good grade, your best wasn't good enough.
it doesn't matter if you did your best; what matters is how your work compares to others' work.

I agree with you that, I don't want my kid to learn those points you made, such as "don't work just for grades etc." In fact that is what I keep telling my child. But this does not invalidate my earlier point. Why can't we just get a narrative report from the teacher without any grades, instead of a highly inconsistent and commentless grading method that sends a very wrong message to young children. Why do I have to keep reminding my child that grades are not important, this grading method is unfair, meaningless etc. (Of course I don't say that to my child, but I try to essentially give her that message.) Please answer this question. Don't diverge into other arguments which is not my point.

Not the pp to whom you are responding, but it sounds like you have a teacher and/or administrative problem. I like that the areas of learning are broken down and graded, it allows us to not just see what my kid is learning, but HOW.
At our parent/teacher conference the teacher gave us very explicit (as in a written assessment) our our DC's progress.
I can tell how well my DC is learning how to put together a narrative, how well DC works independently, how well in civics
how well in the various areas of math (math facts, etc.)
What you are talking about is a teacher problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course the two cases are different. Children are not that stupid. They know there are grades called N, I, P, and ES.

Yes, they know that there are grades called N, I, P, and ES. But do they care? And should they care?

Here is what I want my elementary school kids to learn: do your best.

Here are some things I don't want my elementary school kids to learn:

do your best so that you get a good grade.
do your best, but if you don't get a good grade, your best wasn't good enough.
it doesn't matter if you did your best; what matters is how your work compares to others' work.

I agree with you that, I don't want my kid to learn those points you made, such as "don't work just for grades etc." In fact that is what I keep telling my child. But this does not invalidate my earlier point. Why can't we just get a narrative report from the teacher without any grades, instead of a highly inconsistent and commentless grading method that sends a very wrong message to young children. Why do I have to keep reminding my child that grades are not important, this grading method is unfair, meaningless etc. (Of course I don't say that to my child, but I try to essentially give her that message.) Please answer this question. Don't diverge into other arguments which is not my point.

If 2.0 ISN'T about dumbing down the curriculum, why do 4th graders only have the option of either 4 or 4/5 math? In years past, qualified kids had the option to do 6th grade math and beyond. Some kids are ready got this and are unchallenged by thus lower level math. My math Kia IS bored and his live of math is dimming. Pathetic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
MCPS doesn't have a system where grades don't exist. The teachers make a big deal about grades and report cards. The kids see ES but there isn't anything they can do to obtain it. Its very bad when a child gets an ES on one thing without effort and then on another thing where the child does everything the teacher said would be needed for ES, the child doesn't get it. The kids see that they get a P if they write the bare minimum of sentences and they get a P if they spend more time doing more or drawing broader connections. There isn't a kid in my child's class that doesn't know you only have to practice 7 or 8 of the 10 spelling words.

I have not noticed the teachers making a big deal about grades and report cards at my kid's school. Nor have I noticed teachers giving a P for the bare minimum, or for 3 out of 10 words wrong on the spelling test. I guess it's different at your school.

+1 I don't see that at my school either. My DC knows why they received the grade that they did...it's written on the paper by the teacher

Anonymous wrote:
MCPS doesn't have a system where grades don't exist. The teachers make a big deal about grades and report cards. The kids see ES but there isn't anything they can do to obtain it. Its very bad when a child gets an ES on one thing without effort and then on another thing where the child does everything the teacher said would be needed for ES, the child doesn't get it. The kids see that they get a P if they write the bare minimum of sentences and they get a P if they spend more time doing more or drawing broader connections. There isn't a kid in my child's class that doesn't know you only have to practice 7 or 8 of the 10 spelling words.

I have not noticed the teachers making a big deal about grades and report cards at my kid's school. Nor have I noticed teachers giving a P for the bare minimum, or for 3 out of 10 words wrong on the spelling test. I guess it's different at your school.

I think there is a big difference between a system where no grades (only comments/feedback) are given and a system where grades are given unfairly and inconsistently.

MCPS doesn't have a system where grades don't exist. The teachers make a big deal about grades and report cards. The kids see ES but there isn't anything they can do to obtain it. Its very bad when a child gets an ES on one thing without effort and then on another thing where the child does everything the teacher said would be needed for ES, the child doesn't get it. The kids see that they get a P if they write the bare minimum of sentences and they get a P if they spend more time doing more or drawing broader connections. There isn't a kid in my child's class that doesn't know you only have to practice 7 or 8 of the 10 spelling words.

Its a stretch to expect that children only do things for the greater good. (In fact, most adult who think they are doing something for altruistic reasons are actually driven by rewards. ) However, this isn't what you are achieving with this system. The only thing this system does is teach kids that grades are not fair and achievement is discouraged.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One day, when your child takes a real test that has real consequences, you are likely in for a rude awakening. One day, your child won't even know how to learn large quantities of info, retain that info and successfully test on that material. Either this will happen in MS or HS (if 2.0 is finally abandoned by then) or it is when your kid takes an SAT test. Taking squishy assessments that don't have a clear standard might work for you and your kid now, but that isn't reality. Everyone getting the same letter grade regardless of whether they answer all questions correctly or whether they get 7 questions wrong. Big wake up call coming your way when your kid simply expects a "good" grade for everything.

I had no grades in elementary school. None. We didn't have tests either. I got straight As in middle school. I got straight As in high school. I got an 800 on the SAT. I graduated cum laude from an Ivy League school. I have a Ph.D. When is my rude awakening coming?

Get over yourself!

Anonymous wrote:You are fooling yourself if you think kids don't care. They do and they notice inequities which is very bad with this system. The highly motivated kids care much more and its deflating for them.

+1