W&M is just really special. Love the campus, love the feel of it. I was so glad DD chose it, but was convinced that wouldn't happen. It turns out to be as special as I thought. Very happy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are the only VA publics worth considering

They aren't even the only VA publics with a national reputation,

GMU and VCU have national reputations is various areas and JMU is a super-regional.

JMU is much more well-known than VCU. Agree that GMU has a national reputation.

Anonymous wrote:They are the only VA publics worth considering

They aren't even the only VA publics with a national reputation,

GMU and VCU have national reputations is various areas and JMU is a super-regional.

Anonymous wrote:They are the only VA publics worth considering

That’s ridiculous

They are the only VA publics worth considering

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP: They're now R1 and and have 7k undergrads and apparently a *massive* stem presence (they wouldn't be highlighting this if "liberal arts vibe" screamed "we have good stem departments here" to the general public which yeah people still like to claim that W&M is not the place to go if you're planning to study stem). I just don't see that being "LAC-like".

Many people appear unaware that Liberal Arts includes the sciences, mathematics and statistics, and components of technology.

Definitions vary depending on where one looks. What does seem to be true is that many here think (whether correctly or not) that Liberal Arts has an identical meaning to arts & humanities.

Correctly or not? Incorrect. Liberal Arts has always included the sciences. Any definition that equates the liberal arts to the humanities is plainly wrong.

A liberal arts education contrasts not with the study of science but with a professional or technical approach that focuses exclusively on what you need for a specific job.

To oversimplify: a liberal arts education is broad and necessarily varied across disciplines, while a professional education is deep and narrow in one discipline. The goal of a liberal arts education is intellectual agility whole the goal of a professional/technical education is mastery of a field.

It seems like there is a branding issue around Liberal Arts and a comprehension issue around Liberal Arts and STEM. At the extreme, STEM gets translated to computer science and engineering and Liberal Arts gets translated to nothing more than humanities, or if they are trying to throw shade, things like French Lit and Gender studies. People are playing games with it rather than just using the actual definitions. STEM = Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics. Liberal Arts is a broader, interdisciplinary approach to undergraduate learning focusing on developing critical thinking, communication, and analytical skills across humanities, social sciences, natural sciences, mathematics, and arts. Note that natural sciences and mathematics fields are in both STEM and Liberal Arts, and Technology is really just the application thereof across the various disciplines. Liberal arts colleges get singled out unfairly because they have "Liberal Arts" in their descriptor. In fact, the largest components of many universities are their liberal arts colleges (e.g. Harvard College, UVA College of Arts and Sciences).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the first place, they are all excellent schools, better than most flagships nationally.

Both UVA and W&M have a history most colleges don't. I grew up in the private school, expensive private / elite college world, and going to UVA and W&M was very, very respectable. They do have prestige.

Add to it attractive campuses and in state tuition, can't you now understand why they are so popular and sought after?

Doesn’t UVA have an ugly history? In the 1960s they used eminent domain to wipe out the surrounding black communities. Jefferson built the university so that the “sons of the South” wouldn’t go North and be taught about abolition of slavery.

It’s not the 1960s anymore where Southern schools fought desegregation but they are slower to change than schools without the history.

That was Charlottesville, not UVA, if you are talking about areas like Vinegar Hill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP: They're now R1 and and have 7k undergrads and apparently a *massive* stem presence (they wouldn't be highlighting this if "liberal arts vibe" screamed "we have good stem departments here" to the general public which yeah people still like to claim that W&M is not the place to go if you're planning to study stem). I just don't see that being "LAC-like".

Many people appear unaware that Liberal Arts includes the sciences, mathematics and statistics, and components of technology.

Definitions vary depending on where one looks. What does seem to be true is that many here think (whether correctly or not) that Liberal Arts has an identical meaning to arts & humanities.

Correctly or not? Incorrect. Liberal Arts has always included the sciences. Any definition that equates the liberal arts to the humanities is plainly wrong.

A liberal arts education contrasts not with the study of science but with a professional or technical approach that focuses exclusively on what you need for a specific job.

To oversimplify: a liberal arts education is broad and necessarily varied across disciplines, while a professional education is deep and narrow in one discipline. The goal of a liberal arts education is intellectual agility whole the goal of a professional/technical education is mastery of a field.

We count our lucky stars our daughter is attending UVA. This school has it all. Grateful for the excellent choices Virginia offers its residents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the first place, they are all excellent schools, better than most flagships nationally.

Both UVA and W&M have a history most colleges don't. I grew up in the private school, expensive private / elite college world, and going to UVA and W&M was very, very respectable. They do have prestige.

Add to it attractive campuses and in state tuition, can't you now understand why they are so popular and sought after?

Doesn’t UVA have an ugly history? In the 1960s they used eminent domain to wipe out the surrounding black communities. Jefferson built the university so that the “sons of the South” wouldn’t go North and be taught about abolition of slavery.

It’s not the 1960s anymore where Southern schools fought desegregation but they are slower to change than schools without the history.

Yeah. If there is some way to discourage people from applying.... They get too many applications already. Many from sons of the north.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M hypes the sciences on tours because they already have a strong brand around humanities and social sciences, and the primary head-to-head school they're competing with for in-state students is UVA, which … has an engineering program. In a lot of peoples' minds — even in this thread — STEM === Engineering. So it makes sense that W&M would emphasize that they're a "liberal arts and sciences" school.

They already have the ear of the political science or English major. They want to capture the imagination of the "I'm thinking chemistry or bio?" major who's currently planning on something like EDing at Rice and then EAing at UVA (despite preferring something smaller).

I'm not so sure about this. W&M has always had great success with pre-med students who gain acceptance to med school thanks to majoring in science. 65-85% of W&M students applying to med school with at least a B+ average typically gain admission. W&M students have a higher acceptance rate, 70 to 61%, to medical school compared to UVa. Because the schools are much different in size, in terms of absolute #s UVa probably sends more grads to medical school, but you see the point.

You need to cite your sources. Otherwise, you’re just making up numbers.
DP

Google it for yourself.

DP. I Googled it and did find the part in bold about "65-85% of W&M students applying to med school with at least a B+ average typically gain admission." on the W&M premed website. https://www.wm.edu/majorsminors/premedicine/ I couldn't find anything that seemed authoritative on overall average acceptance rates at UVA or W&M. I've looked at this before and it seems universities are reluctant to provide an unqualified percentage that includes all applicants. I suspect the reason is this overall number will be lower (with lower GPA applicants getting rejected at a high rate) and would suffer in a comparison to a qualified percentage. Overall acceptance to at least one medical school is only about 40% nationwide.

Anonymous wrote:In the first place, they are all excellent schools, better than most flagships nationally.

Both UVA and W&M have a history most colleges don't. I grew up in the private school, expensive private / elite college world, and going to UVA and W&M was very, very respectable. They do have prestige.

Add to it attractive campuses and in state tuition, can't you now understand why they are so popular and sought after?

Doesn’t UVA have an ugly history? In the 1960s they used eminent domain to wipe out the surrounding black communities. Jefferson built the university so that the “sons of the South” wouldn’t go North and be taught about abolition of slavery.

It’s not the 1960s anymore where Southern schools fought desegregation but they are slower to change than schools without the history.

Anonymous wrote:W&M could quickly reduce its acceptance rate by 50% with concerted marketing in Texas and California. It’s a very niche brand in those states today.

The NE is the focus right now but I imagine those will be next

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP: They're now R1 and and have 7k undergrads and apparently a *massive* stem presence (they wouldn't be highlighting this if "liberal arts vibe" screamed "we have good stem departments here" to the general public which yeah people still like to claim that W&M is not the place to go if you're planning to study stem). I just don't see that being "LAC-like".

Many people appear unaware that Liberal Arts includes the sciences, mathematics and statistics, and components of technology.

Definitions vary depending on where one looks. What does seem to be true is that many here think (whether correctly or not) that Liberal Arts has an identical meaning to arts & humanities.

"Many" of the ignorant people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: UVA will always be a top tier school not just for those in the state. Virginia Tech has built a reputation outside of Virginia as well.

William and Mary is the overpaid country club that nobody outside of town actually thinks is a status. I’d send my kid OOS before sending my teen here.

Are you confusing W&L with Willam and Mary? I don’t think many people associate W&M with a country club vibe…

Probably. W&M is a nerd school (in the best possible way) and a great place for really smart kids to get to be around other really smart kids that are focused and driven. UVA is more country club than W&M, but W&L has them both beat on that vibe by a long shot.

A lot of people also don't go to college for status and could not give a shit about impressing people with where they spend four years of their life. Outside legal, high-end consulting, and finance, most people do just fine without a T20 degree or having to tell people where they went to college within five minute of meeting them. DC and DCUM just have a much larger pool of people who want others to be impressed by their name brand university than most - probably same for NYC and places where lawyers, consultants, and finance bros gather.

UVA a country club? Uh, no. You are showing your ignorance.