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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

This is a semantic trap.

Your suggested solution is "accept him for who he is" and "figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals" is in practice basically the same as getting him to be a different person. Because he is not motivated to find solutions that work for both of them. He is happy with the current solution which is where she deals with the negative externalities of his ADHD and his immaturity and he just kind of does whatever he wants.

They already have a system and it's 100% dictated by the DH who does not manage his ADHD and does not try to participate as a full partner in their marriage. The system is "I DH will do things the way I always do which we all know doesn't work very well and my wife will scurry along behind me picking up the pieces."

Literally to fix this situation her DH needs to change. He needs to take responsibility for his behavior and he needs to be proactive in meeting his wife halfway. You can call this "working together to find a system that works for them both" or whatever.

Those of you who are mad at OP for complaining are literally just tone policing someone who is already working as hard as she can to make her family work. All to avoid stating the obvious: her DH is not pulling his weight and needs to alter his behavior and be a real partner to her. Why is that so wrong to say. Is OP the one dropping the ball and failing their kids? No -- it's her DH. He needs to change or yes she will wind up divorcing him once the kids are old enough to be self-sufficient because what is the incentive for her to lug around his dead weight the rest of her life?

It's not going to happen. She can't control a grown man. She just can't. He's not a dog on a leash. She has no option but to accept and live her life however she can handle on her own and have him be who he wants or she can separate or divorce. Once men hit about 15 you can't really force them to do anything. They are stronger than you and manipulation, persuasion or ignoring are the only tools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in charge of 95%+ of the household admin and am the main breadwinner. I am constantly resentful bc I am always either working, doing admin or at best telling dh to do things bc he does not initiate the need to do or buy anything that needs to be bought or happen. He took ds to an 8th birthday party today while I took other dc on overnight for travel sport. I reminded him multiple times about party and that he would need a gift; he said he would get the gift. ds tells me this evening that they were late to the party bc dh overslept and had no gift so gave kid money in envelope.
yes dh has adhd. yes is on meds.
I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand.

Does anyone do the below at work or at home? Doesn't everyone do this? I do. My siblings do.

The Four Pillars of Personal Agency
Full-fledged agency requires believing you can achieve your goal and engaging in the following activities:

* Forethought: deciding to take on a challenge, thinking ahead, setting goals, and making plans.
* Implementation: taking first steps, enacting plans, and persisting toward success.
* Self-management: taking care of yourself, dealing with emotions and stress, and maintaining good health to sustain your efforts.
* Learning and adapting: monitoring progress, rethinking strategies and tactics, and making effective adjustments.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/getting-proactive/202203/agency-is-the-highest-level-personal-competence#:~:text=Key%20points.%20Human%20agency%20is%20a?msockid=06f63b076e916c7a057328076f996db2

DH only does the third one and if that one falls by the wayside things get really dicy.

I do all the rest and efforts to get him to do any of them (even for himself much less for our kids or family) have been futile.

I mean at work. but not in their family life

Maybe people do this at home but not in their family life and goals.

Anonymous wrote:I am in charge of 95%+ of the household admin and am the main breadwinner. I am constantly resentful bc I am always either working, doing admin or at best telling dh to do things bc he does not initiate the need to do or buy anything that needs to be bought or happen. He took ds to an 8th birthday party today while I took other dc on overnight for travel sport. I reminded him multiple times about party and that he would need a gift; he said he would get the gift. ds tells me this evening that they were late to the party bc dh overslept and had no gift so gave kid money in envelope.
yes dh has adhd. yes is on meds.
I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand.

Does anyone do the below at work or at home? Doesn't everyone do this? I do. My siblings do.

The Four Pillars of Personal Agency
Full-fledged agency requires believing you can achieve your goal and engaging in the following activities:

* Forethought: deciding to take on a challenge, thinking ahead, setting goals, and making plans.
* Implementation: taking first steps, enacting plans, and persisting toward success.
* Self-management: taking care of yourself, dealing with emotions and stress, and maintaining good health to sustain your efforts.
* Learning and adapting: monitoring progress, rethinking strategies and tactics, and making effective adjustments.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/getting-proactive/202203/agency-is-the-highest-level-personal-competence#:~:text=Key%20points.%20Human%20agency%20is%20a?msockid=06f63b076e916c7a057328076f996db2

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

How many more times does it have to be pointed out to you that “working within the constraints of him as an individual” is just another way of you saying she needs to suck it up? The point here is to raise OP’s consciousness that he is a useless jerk and she deserves to be angry. You are advocating that she not only shoulder all the household work but also blame herself and let him off the hook. That’s because (and you refuse to say this clearly but it does slip out) you DO believe it is her fault - you think she’s the nagging wife and if she only “accepted” him he would step up and do his duties. No way, f that.

What does that accomplish? Where does that get OP at the end of the day?

why does a woman feeling justifiably angry make you so uncomfortable that you have to repeatedly try to silence her? this is about you and your relationship to anger. not her.

This. It is useful to just acknowledge the truth of the situation and call it what it is. Especially if you are in a marital relationship where the main other adult in your life consistently asks you to pretend that something else is going on.

Women in this situation are constantly asked to keep up appearance and to act as though their DH is a fully functioning partner. This is "good for the kids" and allows their DH to save face. It prevents family conflict and allows friends and family members to avoid choosing sides (it also allows people to not help or even to be actively unhelpful or demanding). It's great for everyone EXCEPT the woman who is expected to do 95% of the labor of the keeping the family together while pretending it's 50-50 or even that she relies on her completely useless dead-weight husband in any way.

It is thus incredibly helpful to just call a spade a spade so that you can assess it and decide from there what to do. That's why it's actually useful to be brutally honest about what OP's DH is doing. It's not about piling on or have a "circle jerk" or whatever. Truthfully while I deal with some of these issues with my DH my situation is not as bad and my DH has found ways to be a contributing member of our household and to meet me halfway on some things. So this isn't about me just wanting to wallow in "oh poor us" with OP.

I think one reason I was able to get my DH to wake up and start doing more is in part because I stopped faking that I was happy or that we were equal. I started pointing out in stark terms how much more I do and how selfish and unfair a lot of his behavior was. The more I could do this almost neutrally and without emotion the more he realized that he had to do something or I would leave. He actually went through a period of time where he became so scared I would leave that he had regular nightmares that he woke up and I was just gone. The funny thing is that in most of these nightmares I left the kids with him which of course I would never do. But that was a huge part of the panic for him -- the idea of having to get by without me because he knows I keep this whole ship afloat. And that's what divorce would be for him -- he'd have to handle all his own BS that he doesn't deal with PLUS he'd have to solo parent half the time. It was like a scared straight program for derelict husbands.

But it starts with getting real about what is happening. And trying to pretend this situation is on OP and not on her DH isn't helping anyone.

We get the joke cards. Ha ha ha. Jokes on us.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

Everyone understands the difference.

Some people with issues address them, others don’t.

That was his chance. At age 40.

This was his chance to, with baby steps, improve himself. He had his diagnoses, he had a well-known published doctor, they had a slow ramp plan of new habits to do (greet your kids in the AM/ don’t ignore them, read your emails once a week on Thursdays, plan 1 date a month yourself w childcare).

He failed.

Now he is on the sidelines of the family, and barely has a relationship with me or the kids.

He likes it that way. He goofs around with them when convenient, might tag along to a weekend game. He ignores the sitter, like he has for 10+ years.

I have the documentation to serve him any time I wish (temp custody, temp child support, Maryland backdated separation agreement - we have separate BRs).

I have my support groups, friend groups and close family all of whom are aware of his Dx and symptoms and the situation. I work full time in a senior position.

He is out of my will, he is not PoA of me or anything with the kids or anyone’s health decisions. The lawyer has his Dx write up and the subsequent psychologist treatment recommendations he failed to do.

As you can tell, I have fully detached from expecting him to change or improve. And I have fully accepted how he is.

In fact I praise him for all his hard office work and whatever income it manages to produce for the family. I call him my arm candy if he comes to a function with me. I still wipe up all his weekend crumbs and coffee cups littered around the house. Wet towels on the hardwood. Vehicles with no oil change in years.

I expect nothing of him nor from him. He can barely follow directions. So now he only gets “fun directions,” like buy me some perfume at duty free next week! But never something to do with food or the kids or repairs or school or planning something. Never again.

Do you find life more or less stressful (mentally) now that you have lowered your expectations to basically nothing?

Firstly, I still expect adult behavior from adults. So he’s way in the red and the kids see it for themselves.

Secondly, life is stressful period.
Kids in middle school is tough, they need more monitoring. Now me and the nanny do the schoolwork check ins.

And it sux that I have no spouse to bounce issues off or talk to about the kids or to help me advocate for them. But I never had that the last 13 years and I won’t have that the next 9.
And I have no other adult in the house to see something broken and get it fixed or fix it; he’ll just walk by it. Like he did before. No agency. No responsibility.

What’s not stressful is I have greatly minimized the amount of derailing at his hands. Kid stuff, travel stuff, repair stuff, food stuff, car stuff, health stuff.
Things are much better than when I tried for 6-8 years to get him involved or gave him tasks he either didn’t do or did halfway and would lie about it.

So net/net I’m less stressed out.

But given how odd he is, anything could happen. He doesn’t have normal reactions or judgments to anything. So that can keep me on edge.

If he signed away all legal and physical custody tomorrow - and I have that doc ready too - I would countersign and file it in Rockville the same day.

But he has the movie image of “I’m a great Dad” plastered in his head yet does zero dad stuff ever. I don’t think he could even define what a great dad is, it would make him too uncomfortable and angry. Like lengthy Father’s Day cards do.

No one knows what card to get him for Fathers Day. The hallmark aisle then is some serious, sad cognitive dissonance for all of us. Or at least 3 of us.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

How many more times does it have to be pointed out to you that “working within the constraints of him as an individual” is just another way of you saying she needs to suck it up? The point here is to raise OP’s consciousness that he is a useless jerk and she deserves to be angry. You are advocating that she not only shoulder all the household work but also blame herself and let him off the hook. That’s because (and you refuse to say this clearly but it does slip out) you DO believe it is her fault - you think she’s the nagging wife and if she only “accepted” him he would step up and do his duties. No way, f that.

What does that accomplish? Where does that get OP at the end of the day?

why does a woman feeling justifiably angry make you so uncomfortable that you have to repeatedly try to silence her? this is about you and your relationship to anger. not her.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

How many more times does it have to be pointed out to you that “working within the constraints of him as an individual” is just another way of you saying she needs to suck it up? The point here is to raise OP’s consciousness that he is a useless jerk and she deserves to be angry. You are advocating that she not only shoulder all the household work but also blame herself and let him off the hook. That’s because (and you refuse to say this clearly but it does slip out) you DO believe it is her fault - you think she’s the nagging wife and if she only “accepted” him he would step up and do his duties. No way, f that.

What does that accomplish? Where does that get OP at the end of the day?

It validates the reality of her situation, and her emotions. That’s powerful.

Then she can process and “accept” the situation. And she can even grieve the situation, the husband and marriage she will never have with this disordered individual.

Then she can make viable plans for herself and the children around said situation.

Finally, she can plan to get them out of the situation in a sensible and travails way and timing.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

How many more times does it have to be pointed out to you that “working within the constraints of him as an individual” is just another way of you saying she needs to suck it up? The point here is to raise OP’s consciousness that he is a useless jerk and she deserves to be angry. You are advocating that she not only shoulder all the household work but also blame herself and let him off the hook. That’s because (and you refuse to say this clearly but it does slip out) you DO believe it is her fault - you think she’s the nagging wife and if she only “accepted” him he would step up and do his duties. No way, f that.

What does that accomplish? Where does that get OP at the end of the day?

Understanding her situation and feeling supported, so she can eventually kick him to the curb.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

Everyone understands the difference.

Some people with issues address them, others don’t.

That was his chance. At age 40.

This was his chance to, with baby steps, improve himself. He had his diagnoses, he had a well-known published doctor, they had a slow ramp plan of new habits to do (greet your kids in the AM/ don’t ignore them, read your emails once a week on Thursdays, plan 1 date a month yourself w childcare).

He failed.

Now he is on the sidelines of the family, and barely has a relationship with me or the kids.

He likes it that way. He goofs around with them when convenient, might tag along to a weekend game. He ignores the sitter, like he has for 10+ years.

I have the documentation to serve him any time I wish (temp custody, temp child support, Maryland backdated separation agreement - we have separate BRs).

I have my support groups, friend groups and close family all of whom are aware of his Dx and symptoms and the situation. I work full time in a senior position.

He is out of my will, he is not PoA of me or anything with the kids or anyone’s health decisions. The lawyer has his Dx write up and the subsequent psychologist treatment recommendations he failed to do.

As you can tell, I have fully detached from expecting him to change or improve. And I have fully accepted how he is.

In fact I praise him for all his hard office work and whatever income it manages to produce for the family. I call him my arm candy if he comes to a function with me. I still wipe up all his weekend crumbs and coffee cups littered around the house. Wet towels on the hardwood. Vehicles with no oil change in years.

I expect nothing of him nor from him. He can barely follow directions. So now he only gets “fun directions,” like buy me some perfume at duty free next week! But never something to do with food or the kids or repairs or school or planning something. Never again.

Do you find life more or less stressful (mentally) now that you have lowered your expectations to basically nothing?

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

How many more times does it have to be pointed out to you that “working within the constraints of him as an individual” is just another way of you saying she needs to suck it up? The point here is to raise OP’s consciousness that he is a useless jerk and she deserves to be angry. You are advocating that she not only shoulder all the household work but also blame herself and let him off the hook. That’s because (and you refuse to say this clearly but it does slip out) you DO believe it is her fault - you think she’s the nagging wife and if she only “accepted” him he would step up and do his duties. No way, f that.

What does that accomplish? Where does that get OP at the end of the day?

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

(that’s because his big issue was he had no virtues. ASD may have been a misdiagnosis - sounds like a personality disorder.)

He had four DSM Dx and by his age, his self-taught maladaptive coping methods (lie/omit, blame others, deflect, stonewall), present as cluster B personality disorders or may indeed have been. This was on top of his poor comms, no executive functioning skills, inattentiveness, impulsivity & impatience, inability to plan or see danger, hyperactivity and overloading in coffee/soda to focus all day, inability to see others’ needs and help them.

Multiple doctors and lawyers asked how we got someone with that profile in for a formal neuropsych test. They usually won’t do one.

Well, his ASD cluelessness got him in there, but he would now tell you it’s wrong diagnoses and he did it to prove to everyone he was fine and they are crazy. And so it goes with everything.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Ok so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

If your kid is refusing to put on his shoes after you ask him to you have found that extending him grace and empathy helps you move forward because he feels heard and understood. Yes?

And what you are saying is that OP should do the same with her DH -- extend him grace and empathy regarding his ADHD and the ways that it makes it hard for him to do stuff with the kids or around the house. Am I correct in making that leap?

If so then why is it then when OP comes here to complain about this situation and express her frustration with her DH you and others think the key is to tell OP that her feelings are invalid or she needs to "just do X" to fix it? Following your logic wouldn't it make more sense to extend OP grace and empathy and say "that sounds really frustrating and you have a right to be upset that your spouse isn't being a partner"?

And if that's not the obvious logical conclusio of your argument why is it that you can see that your child needs grace and empathy and you can see that OP's DH needs grace and empathy but OP herself does not deserve grace and empathy? I am genuinely confused.

Yes. I think she absolutely deserves grace. She’s obviously very mad, and rightly so. What she chooses to do now, is up to her. Look I’ve both been the slacker (due to anxiety and depression) and been frustrated with DH for not helping out enough (intense job with lots of travel). When we’ve both calmed down a bit, we’ve gotten better results. We definitely went through the motions to divorce, and then ended up staying after joint therapy. CBT has been freeing because I can be mad or sad, but it’s not reactionary. It’s deliberate. It’s a small shift and was transformative for me.

I’m not perfect, neither is DH. If we’re in a pattern, I can shift my behavior or not. That’s my choice. His too.

From the title of the post, it seems like OP has not considered it from DH’s perspective. The vast majority of respondents say her husband is a horrible human being. That won’t solve her anger.

I see. You’re projecting. It makes you question your own decision to suck it up when you see a woman not doing the same.

OP is the one sucking it up, not PP! OP is the one who still has a problem. PP has a resolution she's content with.

If she was content with it she wouldn’t be here haranguing OP.

Giving advice/providing a different perspective (to a question that was asked by OP) is not haranguing.

Many of you are clearly annoyed at the idea that you cannot control other people. Many of you seem aggressively angry at the idea that you can, in fact, control yourself. I suspect this is because it is easy (and gratifying) to convince yourself that you are a helpless victim. But the reality is that you have agency, and you are perfectly able to change your environment, and/or change your thoughts.

SOMEONE is annoyed they can’t control other people and get them to acknowledge their (off point) advice!

Her advice is the best post on this thread. Many of us have said the same thing, but she said it so much better!

Sorry, no. The “stop being a victim, you have agency!” posters are patting themselves on the back for pointing out that OP has a choice to divorce. That’s it. This isn’t news. Presumably OP doesn’t want a divorce as that’s not the topic of her thread. Most people trying to raise kids are also trying to avoid that. She’d trying to figure out how to have a functional marriage with someone who’s got his feet on the coffee table 95% of the time.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. There is nobody more controlling than the person who lowers the bar as far as possible, refuses to budge, and makes everyone else meet him there. To suggest that any real “choices” (other than divorce! Yes, we see you prior posters) exist with someone like this is a farce.

Divorce is not her only option. We have all been saying that she has two options: she can accept him for who he is (and maybe *then* they can figure out systems that will work for both of them as individuals, rather than systems that she desires that would work for only her), OR she can divorce.

Complaining and attempting to wish him into being a different person is not actually accomplishing anything now, and it clearly will not accomplish anything in the future.

You and the other people in this thread pushing back on this reality are basically engaging in a “my spouse is terrible” circle jerk. It might feel good in the moment, but what exactly are hoping to gain long term?

Good luck with that PP. Pay attention. That’s all been tried and failed, x100.

Spent $4k on a neuropysch,
$3.5k on my own individual therapy, and
$4k on his targeted therapy with an ASD psychologist on the west coast.

She proposed truly little baby steps for him to do on a monthly basis. He refused.

6 mos later, before he quit therapy for eating everyone’s time, she recommended him to do a 12 month DBT therapy session and anger mgmt classes. She even found an Arlington based doctor who would take an adult with his profile. He refused.

No change. No result. No systems.

This doesn’t sound like you were trying to work within the constraints of who he is an individual. This sounds like you were spent a lot of money having him go to therapy in an effort to get him to change who he is as an individual. Do you really not understand the difference?

Everyone understands the difference.

Some people with issues address them, others don’t.

That was his chance. At age 40.

This was his chance to, with baby steps, improve himself. He had his diagnoses, he had a well-known published doctor, they had a slow ramp plan of new habits to do (greet your kids in the AM/ don’t ignore them, read your emails once a week on Thursdays, plan 1 date a month yourself w childcare).

He failed.

Now he is on the sidelines of the family, and barely has a relationship with me or the kids.

He likes it that way. He goofs around with them when convenient, might tag along to a weekend game. He ignores the sitter, like he has for 10+ years.

I have the documentation to serve him any time I wish (temp custody, temp child support, Maryland backdated separation agreement - we have separate BRs).

I have my support groups, friend groups and close family all of whom are aware of his Dx and symptoms and the situation. I work full time in a senior position.

He is out of my will, he is not PoA of me or anything with the kids or anyone’s health decisions. The lawyer has his Dx write up and the subsequent psychologist treatment recommendations he failed to do.

As you can tell, I have fully detached from expecting him to change or improve. And I have fully accepted how he is.

In fact I praise him for all his hard office work and whatever income it manages to produce for the family. I call him my arm candy if he comes to a function with me. I still wipe up all his weekend crumbs and coffee cups littered around the house. Wet towels on the hardwood. Vehicles with no oil change in years.

I expect nothing of him nor from him. He can barely follow directions. So now he only gets “fun directions,” like buy me some perfume at duty free next week! But never something to do with food or the kids or repairs or school or planning something. Never again.

And yet he will be shocked. Shocked! I tell you, when you eventually serve him. It's so sad.