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Anonymous wrote:This entire thread is an example of why these monuments need to be removed, schools need names changed, and a lot of history needs to be taught.

Can you imagine that here we are, in 2022, explaining why slavery was bad? This entire thread is frightening.

Well this thread is also very biased. What percent of these posters you think are from VA as opposed to Dc or Md? Probably only half. Also take into account the political biases, it’s not representative of the state at all.

Really? What do you think would be “representative of the state” — which includes everything from southwestern Virginia to the DC suburbs? Are there views “representative of the state” that somehow include the FFVs, the Ballston Bros, the recent suburban transplants, the immigrants, the longtime rural communities AND the 20% of the population that’s made up of non-monolithic Black communities?

Well this forum is made of people who come from the DC area, so i would doubt those from southwest virginia or even people from as south as fredericksburg engaging in it. Obviously it would be more insightful to get the standpoints of people from all across the state, as these monuments are concentrated from anywhere from Arlington to Richmond to Southwestern Virginia.

I’m not questioning the value of having insights that are “representative of the state”. I’m asking what that would look like since the PP has decided that “this thread is…very biased”.

Various county elected officials and board members have voted to keep these monuments and statues in place throughout Virginia. County-wide Referendums across the state have also indicated that the majority of the voters do not want to remove these statues.

We sure have some "very fine" racists here in VA.

Wanting to keep confederate monuments does not equal being a racist. Are you that ignorant?

Please list all of the non-racist reasons for keeping monuments to white supremacy. Try not to sound like a racist when you list them out.

NP. I don’t really have a strong opinion on this particular issue, I just don’t want to be like the liberals in Maryland and DC. I think this whole DMV thing is a bunch of bs, these New York migrants have an identity crisis and want to be so superior and different from the rest of Virginia yet send their kids to UVA and VT. Go try finding this acronym in border crossing states like St. Louis or Kansas City. They’ll get a good chuckle. Back in the day all the liberal minded folks would move to Maryland and the conservatives would move to Virginia. Then they all started to get jealous of the low taxes and better way of living and started to infest our beautiful southern state. Take me back please.

Be wary, theyre spreading like termites through the core all the way to loudoun and pw county now.

That kind of dehumanizing language (“termite”, “infest”) often precedes genocide. Germany, former Yugoslavia, Rwanda. This thread is scary.

I agree - although I suspect this is just one racist in VA sock-puppeting supportive replies.

PP here. Racism is a overreaching statement that does not characterize the vast majority of confederate statue defenders. Is Glenn Youngkin a racist? Are all republicans racist? Racism is not a one all be all, is not appropriate to label people as such.

Who cares. The statues are being taken down. End of an era, end of story to most people. Focus on other things.

Not if this guy has anything to say about it.

And… she’s gone!
“Ann Hunter McLean, a historian who defends Confederate statues and asserts that slavery was not the primary cause of the Civil War, has resigned from the Virginia Board of Historic Resources over what a spokesman for Gov. Glenn Youngkin (R) called a disagreement about priorities.
“After discussion about our Administration’s goals and priorities and Dr. McLean’s, Dr. McLean resigned,” Youngkin spokeswoman Macaulay Porter said via text message. The resignation was effective Monday. Youngkin had appointed McLean, the former head of a Christian school, to the board in mid-July.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/08/03/youngkin-appointee-resigns-confederate-statues/?utm_campaign=wp_afternoon_buzz&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_buzz&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F378cd7d%2F62ead4bccfe8a2160118075d%2F596bc2b7ae7e8a44e7dcaab7%2F13%2F57%2F62ead4bccfe8a2160118075d&wp_cu=dbe1f73d84dff07b8d1a5ed1a90fac97%7CC0E147FCFF342B4AE0430100007F6711

Anonymous wrote:City of Alexandria has an ordinance from 1951 that city streets that running north-south be named after confederate leaders.

The city is now trying to rename 31 streets. Personally I think everyone who lives on the street should have to be able to name and explain who the street is named for otherwise the street name remains as is. Guarantee 99.9% gave no idea and don't care.

Up until 2015, Alexandria flew the Confederate flag on Confederate memorial day.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.

And what did Thomas Fairfax, 6th Lord of Fairfax of Cameron do other than buying and selling enslaved Africans and deriving his income from the labor of hundreds of slaves on his 30 farms? Let us rename the entire county to Lewis County once and for all!

If you feel strongly go start a petition. I DGAF about his name one way or another.

He wasn’t a traitor who killed 620,000 Americans in efforts to keep 4 million people enslaved. So you might not get much traction.

PP here. I don’t care, rather I oppose ALL monuments or statues being removed, including those with Robert E Lee. It’s all a bunch of political BS.

OK, noted. Most of us do care about whether we celebrate racist traitors or not.

Guess some people want to cling to racist symbols from the Jim Crow era.

You are a hypocrite. Then why not rename Fairfax County? Or a better question would be, why did we rename TC Williams High School, named after a segregationist superintendent? Neither are so called “traitors” which I assume you are referring to Confederates, but why pick and choose specific individuals to the boards’ liking?

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Anonymous wrote:This entire thread is an example of why these monuments need to be removed, schools need names changed, and a lot of history needs to be taught.

Can you imagine that here we are, in 2022, explaining why slavery was bad? This entire thread is frightening.

Well this thread is also very biased. What percent of these posters you think are from VA as opposed to Dc or Md? Probably only half. Also take into account the political biases, it’s not representative of the state at all.

Really? What do you think would be “representative of the state” — which includes everything from southwestern Virginia to the DC suburbs? Are there views “representative of the state” that somehow include the FFVs, the Ballston Bros, the recent suburban transplants, the immigrants, the longtime rural communities AND the 20% of the population that’s made up of non-monolithic Black communities?

Well this forum is made of people who come from the DC area, so i would doubt those from southwest virginia or even people from as south as fredericksburg engaging in it. Obviously it would be more insightful to get the standpoints of people from all across the state, as these monuments are concentrated from anywhere from Arlington to Richmond to Southwestern Virginia.

I’m not questioning the value of having insights that are “representative of the state”. I’m asking what that would look like since the PP has decided that “this thread is…very biased”.

Various county elected officials and board members have voted to keep these monuments and statues in place throughout Virginia. County-wide Referendums across the state have also indicated that the majority of the voters do not want to remove these statues.

We sure have some "very fine" racists here in VA.

Wanting to keep confederate monuments does not equal being a racist. Are you that ignorant?

Please list all of the non-racist reasons for keeping monuments to white supremacy. Try not to sound like a racist when you list them out.

NP. I don’t really have a strong opinion on this particular issue, I just don’t want to be like the liberals in Maryland and DC. I think this whole DMV thing is a bunch of bs, these New York migrants have an identity crisis and want to be so superior and different from the rest of Virginia yet send their kids to UVA and VT. Go try finding this acronym in border crossing states like St. Louis or Kansas City. They’ll get a good chuckle. Back in the day all the liberal minded folks would move to Maryland and the conservatives would move to Virginia. Then they all started to get jealous of the low taxes and better way of living and started to infest our beautiful southern state. Take me back please.

Be wary, theyre spreading like termites through the core all the way to loudoun and pw county now.

That kind of dehumanizing language (“termite”, “infest”) often precedes genocide. Germany, former Yugoslavia, Rwanda. This thread is scary.

I agree - although I suspect this is just one racist in VA sock-puppeting supportive replies.

PP here. Racism is a overreaching statement that does not characterize the vast majority of confederate statue defenders. Is Glenn Youngkin a racist? Are all republicans racist? Racism is not a one all be all, is not appropriate to label people as such.

Who cares. The statues are being taken down. End of an era, end of story to most people. Focus on other things.

Not if this guy has anything to say about it.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.

And what did Thomas Fairfax, 6th Lord of Fairfax of Cameron do other than buying and selling enslaved Africans and deriving his income from the labor of hundreds of slaves on his 30 farms? Let us rename the entire county to Lewis County once and for all!

If you feel strongly go start a petition. I DGAF about his name one way or another.

He wasn’t a traitor who killed 620,000 Americans in efforts to keep 4 million people enslaved. So you might not get much traction.

PP here. I don’t care, rather I oppose ALL monuments or statues being removed, including those with Robert E Lee. It’s all a bunch of political BS.

OK, noted. Most of us do care about whether we celebrate racist traitors or not.

Guess some people want to cling to racist symbols from the Jim Crow era.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.

And what did Thomas Fairfax, 6th Lord of Fairfax of Cameron do other than buying and selling enslaved Africans and deriving his income from the labor of hundreds of slaves on his 30 farms? Let us rename the entire county to Lewis County once and for all!

If you feel strongly go start a petition. I DGAF about his name one way or another.

He wasn’t a traitor who killed 620,000 Americans in efforts to keep 4 million people enslaved. So you might not get much traction.

PP here. I don’t care, rather I oppose ALL monuments or statues being removed, including those with Robert E Lee. It’s all a bunch of political BS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.

And what did Thomas Fairfax, 6th Lord of Fairfax of Cameron do other than buying and selling enslaved Africans and deriving his income from the labor of hundreds of slaves on his 30 farms? Let us rename the entire county to Lewis County once and for all!

If you feel strongly go start a petition. I DGAF about his name one way or another.

He wasn’t a traitor who killed 620,000 Americans in efforts to keep 4 million people enslaved. So you might not get much traction.

PP here. I don’t care, rather I oppose ALL monuments or statues being removed, including those with Robert E Lee. It’s all a bunch of political BS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.

And what did Thomas Fairfax, 6th Lord of Fairfax of Cameron do other than buying and selling enslaved Africans and deriving his income from the labor of hundreds of slaves on his 30 farms? Let us rename the entire county to Lewis County once and for all!

If you feel strongly go start a petition. I DGAF about his name one way or another.

He wasn’t a traitor who killed 620,000 Americans in efforts to keep 4 million people enslaved. So you might not get much traction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.

"these hypocrites" aren't hypocrites by your own admission- slave owning isn't the issue here-an armed insurrection against the United States of America is, and for the pp who said that states weren't subservient blah blah ... well maybe you have a point and states should've been allowed to secede but they tried and they were conquered and we don't put up statues to honor ppl who we conquer and defeat. History is written by the victors, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson won their insurrection, Lee lost his attempt- they are losers, we celebrate winners not losing losers regardless of who was morally upstanding or not in the end. Its not as if the King Edward and Queen Victoria were more upright than the Kaiser, they just won and the germans lost.

the Confederates are losers who lost, and we, the United States won, and maybe for a short time we decided to assuage the feelings of the losers by allowing them to put up statues and so on.. now the victors of that particular war have decided that we want to rub your nose in your loss and we don't want to care about your feelings about being bested by us. As the victors in the conflict, the United States of America has a aright to do that and people who have any sort of allegiance to a nation other than the United States will have to choose which nation they are actually loyal to- you cannot be loyal to the memory of a nation that staged a violent overthrow of the government. Like Arabs in Isreal- if they support Palestine, they are not loyal Isrealis. if you love the confederacy you aren't loyal to the United States, they are enemy nations who had a brief cultural detante but that is over now. Honestly I think the losers took too much advantage and got too comfortable and now the victors are irritated at them and want to ensure the losers actually lose everything even at this belated date. I think the majority of Americans who have no unambigiouty in their loyalty to the Union are sick of coddling the South and the former confederate states, especially since they never actually adapted to a free workforce and kept on trying to replicate the enormous finial boon of a free and cheap labor force and are still "taker'states that use up huge amounts of money from Northern/Union States b/c they are poor and useless. Even on these boards you can see a bias that paints the former confederate states as useless, poor, shiftless, ignorant and basically a drag upon more productive states, there is a scorn for the South and everything southern and it is coming out as an unwillingness to coddle southern sensibilities that was present in the first half of the 20th century.

For a long time northerners were willing to placate the feelings of the former confederate states b/c they thought it was in their best interest, the former Union States are vastly wealthier now and have to pay enormous capital to the former confederacy and obviously it is the policies and culture of these places that keep them in this permanent state of needing handouts for 150 years now, the Union States are tired of it now and are like enough. Your culture and its heroes are stupid and you need to assimilate. This isn't a logical thing actually- there are some (VA & TX) former confederates Staes that aren't an economic deadweight but mostly ppl think of Alabama, Louisiana and are enraged that they have to keep giving these Staes charity year after year and I think honestly these "progressives" feel like you should feed the poor and help people but they are also American so they are like pull yourself together, its been 150 years, be self sufficient already. Also we have a greater understanding of exactly how enslaved labor propelled the fortunes of the Unite States into being a world power and so there is more guilt on the collective consciousness that what we have we owe to this unpaid labor and the confederates who reallised that slavery was THE ultimate gravy train and stopping it would stop the economic powerhouse the US had become are an easy target for being cold and calculated users of enslaved labor while the Northerners who profited off of it want to distance themselves and have plausible deniability. They cant have that if they have statues honoring confederates peppered around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.

And what did Thomas Fairfax, 6th Lord of Fairfax of Cameron do other than buying and selling enslaved Africans and deriving his income from the labor of hundreds of slaves on his 30 farms? Let us rename the entire county to Lewis County once and for all!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

In the case of Jefferson, once the woke School Board in Fairfax pushed through admissions changes to try and get more Black and Hispanic kids admitted to the Thomas Jefferson[i] High School for Science and Technology, the chatter about changing the name of the school or the mascot (Colonials) completely subsided. It's like people are constantly picking fights and deciding which ones stand to best advance their agenda.

+1, if they really thought it was a moral issue they would change the names of all people who’ve had a “racist” past. However they only choose to change ones that are deemed to be politically incorrect, and frantically looking to stir up political drama.

Eh, people who use terms like “politically incorrect “ and “stir up political drama” tend to be fine with the names, and comfortable dismissing the very real concerns of those of us who want the names changed. When it comes to choosing which names get changed, or which names have priority, there are only so many battles that people with relatively less power can fight on our own. For every time someone notes that Woodrow Wilson intensified racial segregation throughout the federal government and DC, there are apologists screaming about the importance of the League of Nations or whatever — although they often seem curiously low on detailed specifics.

tldr: Some of us would love more changes — but realistically, we have to start somewhere, so we start with the ones that garner more support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, don’t listen to these hypocrites. They would never ever say anything about renaming everything associated with Washington or Jefferson, nor will they ever advocate for renaming Fairfax County, named after Lord Fairfax, a prominent slave owner. They think they can pick and choose everything to their liking, just like the constitution they so desperately want to abolish.

When exactly did Washington fight against our country? When did he kill 620,000 Americans to keep 4 million people enslaved?

Sit TF down, fool.