Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sororities are no different from the real world where, like it or not, we’re all judged and stationed based on qualities such as beauty, wealth, intelligence, likeability, athleticism, social connections. These factors impact us all throughout our lives. They determine whether you’re in the popular crowd in grade school, what schools you and your kids attend (top public schools bc you can afford the right neighborhood, private schools bc you have the means to pay tuition), what sport teams you can join, what colleges you get into, what social clubs you are invited to join, what social circles you’ll be in, what jobs you are offered and how far you progress in those jobs. Getting promoted to the executive level really isn’t that different from sorority rush.
Society, both ours and those of most developed cultures, are based on exclusion and a social hierarchy. Maybe this is unfair, but it’s the way the world had worked since the begging of civilization. To deny this and pick on sororities as being an exception is unfair.
Lol I can’t tell if this is sarcasm.
Some of us prefer a democratic society where hierarchies aren’t supported and encouraged. Some of us are more civilized than our ancestors and aren’t threatened by equality.
You raise the point about why Greek is so popular in the south though. Southern culture is all about hierarchy which is why they love that the “tier” term continues and they love that some girls are heartbroken at the end. It all helps perpetuate that there is a “top” class of people.
You’re naïve or a fool if you think hierarchies aren’t supported and encouraged everywhere. There are hierarchies based on schools, neighborhoods, jobs. I’d be willing to bet the DC area has more social clubs and country clubs per capita than any city or town in the South. There is definitely a top class of people, whether you see them or not. They have access to better health care, schools, social and leisure opportunities, network and investment opportunities, etc. This type of social hierarchy is much more pronounced in cities like NY, DC, Boston, SF than anywhere in the South.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no sororities, so I am reading this thread with zero knowledge and total fascination. What does any of this have to do with college? It is such a strange thing.
Me too. I intentionally avoided applying to schools with sororities and they sound even (much much much) worse than I even imagined.
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
+100
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
Exactly. +101 I did not go to Alabama or Old Miss but I did go to a large state school where Greek life was a big part of the social scene. Unless you live under a rock you would recognize our house. I love all those girls and they have helped me through some of the worst and best times of my life. Even today, 30+ years out of school, I know that I can pick up the phone, call one of my sisters and she will be here in a heartbeat. And I would do the same for her. It was one of the best choices I ever made to rush and I would not hesitate to encourage any girl interested to do the same.
That’s lovely. It’s based on exclusion. You don’t seem to get that.
Condescension is not helping.
Triggered much? The truth hurts.
The mean SJW.
SJW really just means “giving a sh*t about people besides yourself.”
I’d love to know the stats on LGBTQ, disabled, poor, fat, physically scared (I.e. burn victims) and first generation students in rush.
I was a poor, fat college student going though rush 40 years ago at a big state school. I went through rush on a lark, just to see how the upper echelon lived.
But I ended up with a bid from one of the largest, oldest sororities in the country. It ended up being one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have close friendships still with several of the women. One is my BFF.
The networking from the group has helped me throughout my career. I am still an active alumnae.
Forty years ago, didn’t most sororities discriminate on the basis of race?
NP. Yes.
Not old enough to speak to 40 years ago but there were definitely people of color, as well as international students, in my sorority 30 years ago. Also a few girls that were what we now call first gen, although cost is probably a disincentive. It was hard then for the historically white sororities to compete with the appeal of the historically black sororities.
Much of this thread seems to be dominated by one mom who was fine with her daughter rushing until she didn’t get her preferred house. Consequently the whole system most go down, apparently.
No one has said that at all. Not even close. You’re making assumptions and hearing what you want to hear.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no sororities, so I am reading this thread with zero knowledge and total fascination. What does any of this have to do with college? It is such a strange thing.
Me too. I intentionally avoided applying to schools with sororities and they sound even (much much much) worse than I even imagined.
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
+100
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
Exactly. +101 I did not go to Alabama or Old Miss but I did go to a large state school where Greek life was a big part of the social scene. Unless you live under a rock you would recognize our house. I love all those girls and they have helped me through some of the worst and best times of my life. Even today, 30+ years out of school, I know that I can pick up the phone, call one of my sisters and she will be here in a heartbeat. And I would do the same for her. It was one of the best choices I ever made to rush and I would not hesitate to encourage any girl interested to do the same.
That’s lovely. It’s based on exclusion. You don’t seem to get that.
Condescension is not helping.
Triggered much? The truth hurts.
The mean SJW.
SJW really just means “giving a sh*t about people besides yourself.”
I’d love to know the stats on LGBTQ, disabled, poor, fat, physically scared (I.e. burn victims) and first generation students in rush.
I was a poor, fat college student going though rush 40 years ago at a big state school. I went through rush on a lark, just to see how the upper echelon lived.
But I ended up with a bid from one of the largest, oldest sororities in the country. It ended up being one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have close friendships still with several of the women. One is my BFF.
The networking from the group has helped me throughout my career. I am still an active alumnae.
Forty years ago, didn’t most sororities discriminate on the basis of race?
NP. Yes.
40 years ago was 1982 - I think you might have not done the math on that one. And by that time, yes sororities demographics had changed. This will obviously not apply to every school everywhere but there is no reason to doubt the PP who said her experience 40 yrs ago reflected that.
Also take note that there is very little discussion or push back regarding the issue of discrimination in sororities.
The majority of Divine 9 sororities members and their alumni have no desire to bring that conversation to the forefront bc they have no desire or intention to change their organizations. If they support any discrimination discussion/claims in terms of sororities, they know it will be quickly turned around in them and they don’t want that.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sororities are no different from the real world where, like it or not, we’re all judged and stationed based on qualities such as beauty, wealth, intelligence, likeability, athleticism, social connections. These factors impact us all throughout our lives. They determine whether you’re in the popular crowd in grade school, what schools you and your kids attend (top public schools bc you can afford the right neighborhood, private schools bc you have the means to pay tuition), what sport teams you can join, what colleges you get into, what social clubs you are invited to join, what social circles you’ll be in, what jobs you are offered and how far you progress in those jobs. Getting promoted to the executive level really isn’t that different from sorority rush.
Society, both ours and those of most developed cultures, are based on exclusion and a social hierarchy. Maybe this is unfair, but it’s the way the world had worked since the begging of civilization. To deny this and pick on sororities as being an exception is unfair.
Lol I can’t tell if this is sarcasm.
Some of us prefer a democratic society where hierarchies aren’t supported and encouraged. Some of us are more civilized than our ancestors and aren’t threatened by equality.
You raise the point about why Greek is so popular in the south though. Southern culture is all about hierarchy which is why they love that the “tier” term continues and they love that some girls are heartbroken at the end. It all helps perpetuate that there is a “top” class of people.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no sororities, so I am reading this thread with zero knowledge and total fascination. What does any of this have to do with college? It is such a strange thing.
Me too. I intentionally avoided applying to schools with sororities and they sound even (much much much) worse than I even imagined.
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
+100
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
Exactly. +101 I did not go to Alabama or Old Miss but I did go to a large state school where Greek life was a big part of the social scene. Unless you live under a rock you would recognize our house. I love all those girls and they have helped me through some of the worst and best times of my life. Even today, 30+ years out of school, I know that I can pick up the phone, call one of my sisters and she will be here in a heartbeat. And I would do the same for her. It was one of the best choices I ever made to rush and I would not hesitate to encourage any girl interested to do the same.
That’s lovely. It’s based on exclusion. You don’t seem to get that.
Condescension is not helping.
Triggered much? The truth hurts.
The mean SJW.
SJW really just means “giving a sh*t about people besides yourself.”
I’d love to know the stats on LGBTQ, disabled, poor, fat, physically scared (I.e. burn victims) and first generation students in rush.
I was a poor, fat college student going though rush 40 years ago at a big state school. I went through rush on a lark, just to see how the upper echelon lived.
But I ended up with a bid from one of the largest, oldest sororities in the country. It ended up being one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have close friendships still with several of the women. One is my BFF.
The networking from the group has helped me throughout my career. I am still an active alumnae.
Forty years ago, didn’t most sororities discriminate on the basis of race?
NP. Yes.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no sororities, so I am reading this thread with zero knowledge and total fascination. What does any of this have to do with college? It is such a strange thing.
Me too. I intentionally avoided applying to schools with sororities and they sound even (much much much) worse than I even imagined.
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
+100
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
Exactly. +101 I did not go to Alabama or Old Miss but I did go to a large state school where Greek life was a big part of the social scene. Unless you live under a rock you would recognize our house. I love all those girls and they have helped me through some of the worst and best times of my life. Even today, 30+ years out of school, I know that I can pick up the phone, call one of my sisters and she will be here in a heartbeat. And I would do the same for her. It was one of the best choices I ever made to rush and I would not hesitate to encourage any girl interested to do the same.
That’s lovely. It’s based on exclusion. You don’t seem to get that.
Condescension is not helping.
Triggered much? The truth hurts.
The mean SJW.
SJW really just means “giving a sh*t about people besides yourself.”
I’d love to know the stats on LGBTQ, disabled, poor, fat, physically scared (I.e. burn victims) and first generation students in rush.
I was a poor, fat college student going though rush 40 years ago at a big state school. I went through rush on a lark, just to see how the upper echelon lived.
But I ended up with a bid from one of the largest, oldest sororities in the country. It ended up being one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have close friendships still with several of the women. One is my BFF.
The networking from the group has helped me throughout my career. I am still an active alumnae.
Forty years ago, didn’t most sororities discriminate on the basis of race?
NP. Yes.
Not old enough to speak to 40 years ago but there were definitely people of color, as well as international students, in my sorority 30 years ago. Also a few girls that were what we now call first gen, although cost is probably a disincentive. It was hard then for the historically white sororities to compete with the appeal of the historically black sororities.
Much of this thread seems to be dominated by one mom who was fine with her daughter rushing until she didn’t get her preferred house. Consequently the whole system most go down, apparently.
Absolutely wrong on your second point.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sororities are similar to the secret societies, finals clubs and eating clubs that exist at universities- if you choose to partake in rush and see benefits from sorority life great. If you see these organizations as exclusionary and wrong, don’t participate.
Girls who are interested in sorority rush as incoming freshmen would benefit from talking to older girls they know who have been through the process to get insight.
So you want to keep things how they are. What do we call people like that…
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We probably shouldn’t have athletic teams or theater because it excludes kids who aren’t athletic or gifted at drama.
x1000
What kind of “talent” does rush measure?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no sororities, so I am reading this thread with zero knowledge and total fascination. What does any of this have to do with college? It is such a strange thing.
Me too. I intentionally avoided applying to schools with sororities and they sound even (much much much) worse than I even imagined.
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
+100
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
Exactly. +101 I did not go to Alabama or Old Miss but I did go to a large state school where Greek life was a big part of the social scene. Unless you live under a rock you would recognize our house. I love all those girls and they have helped me through some of the worst and best times of my life. Even today, 30+ years out of school, I know that I can pick up the phone, call one of my sisters and she will be here in a heartbeat. And I would do the same for her. It was one of the best choices I ever made to rush and I would not hesitate to encourage any girl interested to do the same.
That’s lovely. It’s based on exclusion. You don’t seem to get that.
Condescension is not helping.
Triggered much? The truth hurts.
The mean SJW.
SJW really just means “giving a sh*t about people besides yourself.”
I’d love to know the stats on LGBTQ, disabled, poor, fat, physically scared (I.e. burn victims) and first generation students in rush.
I was a poor, fat college student going though rush 40 years ago at a big state school. I went through rush on a lark, just to see how the upper echelon lived.
But I ended up with a bid from one of the largest, oldest sororities in the country. It ended up being one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have close friendships still with several of the women. One is my BFF.
The networking from the group has helped me throughout my career. I am still an active alumnae.
Forty years ago, didn’t most sororities discriminate on the basis of race?
NP. Yes.
Not old enough to speak to 40 years ago but there were definitely people of color, as well as international students, in my sorority 30 years ago. Also a few girls that were what we now call first gen, although cost is probably a disincentive. It was hard then for the historically white sororities to compete with the appeal of the historically black sororities.
Much of this thread seems to be dominated by one mom who was fine with her daughter rushing until she didn’t get her preferred house. Consequently the whole system most go down, apparently.
No one has said that at all. Not even close. You’re making assumptions and hearing what you want to hear.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no sororities, so I am reading this thread with zero knowledge and total fascination. What does any of this have to do with college? It is such a strange thing.
Me too. I intentionally avoided applying to schools with sororities and they sound even (much much much) worse than I even imagined.
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
+100
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
Exactly. +101 I did not go to Alabama or Old Miss but I did go to a large state school where Greek life was a big part of the social scene. Unless you live under a rock you would recognize our house. I love all those girls and they have helped me through some of the worst and best times of my life. Even today, 30+ years out of school, I know that I can pick up the phone, call one of my sisters and she will be here in a heartbeat. And I would do the same for her. It was one of the best choices I ever made to rush and I would not hesitate to encourage any girl interested to do the same.
That’s lovely. It’s based on exclusion. You don’t seem to get that.
Condescension is not helping.
Triggered much? The truth hurts.
The mean SJW.
SJW really just means “giving a sh*t about people besides yourself.”
I’d love to know the stats on LGBTQ, disabled, poor, fat, physically scared (I.e. burn victims) and first generation students in rush.
I was a poor, fat college student going though rush 40 years ago at a big state school. I went through rush on a lark, just to see how the upper echelon lived.
But I ended up with a bid from one of the largest, oldest sororities in the country. It ended up being one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have close friendships still with several of the women. One is my BFF.
The networking from the group has helped me throughout my career. I am still an active alumnae.
Forty years ago, didn’t most sororities discriminate on the basis of race?
NP. Yes.
Not old enough to speak to 40 years ago but there were definitely people of color, as well as international students, in my sorority 30 years ago. Also a few girls that were what we now call first gen, although cost is probably a disincentive. It was hard then for the historically white sororities to compete with the appeal of the historically black sororities.
Much of this thread seems to be dominated by one mom who was fine with her daughter rushing until she didn’t get her preferred house. Consequently the whole system most go down, apparently.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sororities are no different from the real world where, like it or not, we’re all judged and stationed based on qualities such as beauty, wealth, intelligence, likeability, athleticism, social connections. These factors impact us all throughout our lives. They determine whether you’re in the popular crowd in grade school, what schools you and your kids attend (top public schools bc you can afford the right neighborhood, private schools bc you have the means to pay tuition), what sport teams you can join, what colleges you get into, what social clubs you are invited to join, what social circles you’ll be in, what jobs you are offered and how far you progress in those jobs. Getting promoted to the executive level really isn’t that different from sorority rush.
Society, both ours and those of most developed cultures, are based on exclusion and a social hierarchy. Maybe this is unfair, but it’s the way the world had worked since the begging of civilization. To deny this and pick on sororities as being an exception is unfair.
Lol I can’t tell if this is sarcasm.
Some of us prefer a democratic society where hierarchies aren’t supported and encouraged. Some of us are more civilized than our ancestors and aren’t threatened by equality.
You raise the point about why Greek is so popular in the south though. Southern culture is all about hierarchy which is why they love that the “tier” term continues and they love that some girls are heartbroken at the end. It all helps perpetuate that there is a “top” class of people.
Different strokes for different folks. I like sororities (and loved my house), you don't. Oh well. I'm not right and you're not wrong. I am not going to be kowtowed by your insecurities and feelings of inferiority.
If you are a parent, I encourage you to raise a strong, independent girl, someone who can get along with others despite their differences. You know, someone you're not.
Enjoy fascism then.
I encourage you to read more history, sociology, and political psychology.
Facism? Sororities are fascist?
All righty then
Ugh. No. People who like hierarchy are drawn to authoritarian rule. I understand that conversations about political structures are too complicated for this thread, but did not see that interpretation coming. No.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sororities are no different from the real world where, like it or not, we’re all judged and stationed based on qualities such as beauty, wealth, intelligence, likeability, athleticism, social connections. These factors impact us all throughout our lives. They determine whether you’re in the popular crowd in grade school, what schools you and your kids attend (top public schools bc you can afford the right neighborhood, private schools bc you have the means to pay tuition), what sport teams you can join, what colleges you get into, what social clubs you are invited to join, what social circles you’ll be in, what jobs you are offered and how far you progress in those jobs. Getting promoted to the executive level really isn’t that different from sorority rush.
Society, both ours and those of most developed cultures, are based on exclusion and a social hierarchy. Maybe this is unfair, but it’s the way the world had worked since the begging of civilization. To deny this and pick on sororities as being an exception is unfair.
Lol I can’t tell if this is sarcasm.
Some of us prefer a democratic society where hierarchies aren’t supported and encouraged. Some of us are more civilized than our ancestors and aren’t threatened by equality.
You raise the point about why Greek is so popular in the south though. Southern culture is all about hierarchy which is why they love that the “tier” term continues and they love that some girls are heartbroken at the end. It all helps perpetuate that there is a “top” class of people.
Different strokes for different folks. I like sororities (and loved my house), you don't. Oh well. I'm not right and you're not wrong. I am not going to be kowtowed by your insecurities and feelings of inferiority.
If you are a parent, I encourage you to raise a strong, independent girl, someone who can get along with others despite their differences. You know, someone you're not.
Enjoy fascism then.
I encourage you to read more history, sociology, and political psychology.
Facism? Sororities are fascist?
All righty then
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to a school with no sororities, so I am reading this thread with zero knowledge and total fascination. What does any of this have to do with college? It is such a strange thing.
Me too. I intentionally avoided applying to schools with sororities and they sound even (much much much) worse than I even imagined.
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
+100
Well, the depictions here are not very accurate, except perhaps at Alabama or Old Miss, so I wouldn’t give much weight to them. Typical of DCUM that people who weren’t actually in a sorority think they know everything about them.
Exactly. +101 I did not go to Alabama or Old Miss but I did go to a large state school where Greek life was a big part of the social scene. Unless you live under a rock you would recognize our house. I love all those girls and they have helped me through some of the worst and best times of my life. Even today, 30+ years out of school, I know that I can pick up the phone, call one of my sisters and she will be here in a heartbeat. And I would do the same for her. It was one of the best choices I ever made to rush and I would not hesitate to encourage any girl interested to do the same.
That’s lovely. It’s based on exclusion. You don’t seem to get that.
Condescension is not helping.
Triggered much? The truth hurts.
The mean SJW.
SJW really just means “giving a sh*t about people besides yourself.”
I’d love to know the stats on LGBTQ, disabled, poor, fat, physically scared (I.e. burn victims) and first generation students in rush.
I was a poor, fat college student going though rush 40 years ago at a big state school. I went through rush on a lark, just to see how the upper echelon lived.
But I ended up with a bid from one of the largest, oldest sororities in the country. It ended up being one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have close friendships still with several of the women. One is my BFF.
The networking from the group has helped me throughout my career. I am still an active alumnae.
Forty years ago, didn’t most sororities discriminate on the basis of race?
NP. Yes.
Not old enough to speak to 40 years ago but there were definitely people of color, as well as international students, in my sorority 30 years ago. Also a few girls that were what we now call first gen, although cost is probably a disincentive. It was hard then for the historically white sororities to compete with the appeal of the historically black sororities.
Much of this thread seems to be dominated by one mom who was fine with her daughter rushing until she didn’t get her preferred house. Consequently the whole system most go down, apparently.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sororities are similar to the secret societies, finals clubs and eating clubs that exist at universities- if you choose to partake in rush and see benefits from sorority life great. If you see these organizations as exclusionary and wrong, don’t participate.
Girls who are interested in sorority rush as incoming freshmen would benefit from talking to older girls they know who have been through the process to get insight.
So you want to keep things how they are. What do we call people like that…